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 Werewolf 23 - Trust Issues - N5 Ends October 4th 
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Fletchling wrote:
JsX, mind going a little more into detail on your role? Where I come from that'd label you as scummy and you'd have a Camoclone chasing you to the hills.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

best post 10/10

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:54 pm
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Fletchling, do you know the details about any of dropping/picking up/passing/trading/destroying/creating items in this game?

If so, can you please elaborate?

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:55 pm
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DNA and the PB folk will be the only people to get it but it was worth it.

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:59 pm
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I have no idea what the rules on edits and stuff are, so I'll just say I don't have a clue, sorry o3o" I just happened to be PM'd saying I'd dropped my precious Birdseed.

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:02 pm
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lolCamoclone. dont summon him upon us

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:11 pm
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I'll do it if need be! *ritual dance*
So HW when does the day end :v

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:25 pm
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So you were in possession of the Birdseed but had not yet won?

I'm guessing you need to be in possession of the birdseed at the time that the last werewolf is lynched in order to win and in the mean time it is possible that the birdseed moves around to other players?

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:26 pm
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Items just drop randomly. I was PM'd with others, as someone may be able to confirm. I basically have to survive until then, yes. Or until town is dead other than me, possibly.

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:28 pm
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hm. well something to wonder about is whether the birdseed will disappear when you are eaten or lynched or whether somebody is capable of destroying it. If it sticks around until the end then it's better to have you around since we can pass it back to you whenever possible and keep people safe while you hold on to it.

If it does go to the crypt with you well then the question to ask is whether the birdseed is dangerous enough to warrant lynching you.

The ultimate goal of the lynch of course is to eliminate a werewolf. In the event that there is not enough information to determine who a werewolf is, it is still useful to vote someone out because when the lynch victim is eliminated we find out their roles and alignment. If the victim was a wolf, then 1) hooray, a wolf is gone and 2) it gives us a lot of useful information for analysis to determine who the other wolves are. The more wolves we have caught, the better we can analyze the situation and determine who the others are. If the victim was not a wolf, however then at least we still get some more information for analysis.

Now in your case, Fletchling, I'm pretty we know everything there is to know about you, so voting you out won't give us any new information (unless HW created wolves that also have item possession win conditions but that seems far-fetched). Additionally, your birdseed isn't too dangerous, at least not so early in the game. If it begins taking a toll on the town then unfortunately we would have to vote you out later on but only in the event that the birdseed goes with you and there is no wolf target that round.

So I won't be voting for Fletchling. Not yet, anyway.

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:59 pm
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Actually, the birdseed is a hell of a lot more dangerous than it seems, when you think about it. As far as we know, there's no way to get rid of marks (other than Fletchling's ability, which uses the birdseed). Fletchling also randomly lost it, meaning either we have a thief-type player, or Fletchling randomly dropped the item. If it turns out to be the latter, than lynching Fletchling might actually be pretty smart. If we can't get rid of marks, and that birdseed keeps going around randomly, than were all going to start accumulating random marks, making it far easier for there to be multiple kills EACH DAY AND NIGHT. This is especially bad if it turns out that the wolves do have marking abilities.

TL;DR- Unless Fletchling can hold on to the birdseed and everyone leaves it alone, we should either destroy the item or lynch Fletchling.

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:04 pm
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What makes you think that lynching Fletchling will make item dropping cease? Seems like the only way to get rid of it for sure is to hand it to someone about to be lynched.

Look out, here's a longpost.
tl;dr: How are you sure GP is a nonscum threat without any evidence to support it?
DNA wrote:
I'm unsure what to believe about GP, in truth. Someone put a mark on him during the daytime, which means he could be perceived as a potential threat. I don't know who to believe who is a threat and who isn't, at this point, but I believe very strongly that someone believes he is. Thus I chose to go along with that notion, for now.
(@CG: It's possible for town to have 'anti-town' roles. I'm not saying GP does, but it's possible. Whoever placed the mark on him at daytime seems to believe that.)

I'll admit it - I can place marks on players at night. However, I can only place 1 mark per night. The one who placed a mark on GP, yes, that was my doing. But I only placed 1. I don't know who gave him the 2nd one.
I can only assume someone else gave it to him - I don't think it's the same person as before, since giving 1 in the day and 1 at night is a bit over-the-top.

I do believe, however, that the person who gave both GP and SS marks during the daytime is the same person.

Now, was my choosing to give GP a mark an error in judgment? Possibly, yes. I'd like to hear what he has to say before the day ends (if there's a chance).
To the rest of the town - if there's anyone you perceive as a threat, or believe might be a threat, give me a suggestion. If you guys want, I'll place a mark tomorrow night on who you think would be a good idea to mark. (You can give me suggestions on future days if I'm still alive by then; I don't mind.)

The day draws near to its end though, so I'd like to cast a vote of my own first.

VOTE: Fletchling

This is merely because of an admission of his win-con. Win-cons like those tend to be indie-related, or at least not purely town-friendly. It could just remove him from the game as a winner and the rest of us keep playing, but there's no guarantee of that. He's the one I'm most wary of at present, since no one else (besides GP earlier - who I still insist is town but may or may not be helpful) really stands out to me as being anti-town in some capacity.

Emphasis added to relevant bits.

You seem to be assuming a lot here. You seem absolutely positive that:
1. Whoever marked him thinks of him as a threat and it totally wasn't decided by any other method like random selection.
He was marked so close to the beginning (Noon of day 1), I doubt any information-gathering had occurred yet. Even if info-gathering had occurred, I doubt that both info gathering and marking would be able to occur in such a short period of time. But you said
Quote:
I'm unsure what to believe about GP, in truth. Someone put a mark on him during the daytime, which means he could be perceived as a potential threat. I don't know who to believe who is a threat and who isn't, at this point, but I believe very strongly that someone believes he is.

You just went from unsure to strongly believing in 3 sentences.
How can you be so sure?

2. GP is town.
How are you so sure that GP is town if you don't know anything about him? You've said that the only information you have on him is that he got marked. According to you, the only possible explanation is that he's a threat. But according to you he's not scum, he's definitely town.

There's no evidence towards GP's towniness (or scumminess for that matter), and there's no evidence towards GP being perceived as a threat, but here you are stating your high confidence in those two facts. How can you be so sure of those two things? You seem unnaturally confident in two things that could very easily be incorrect based on the extremely limited evidence you've said that you based your assumptions on.

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:35 pm
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I would still REALLY like to hear what GhostPony has to say as well, but unfortunately, he hasn't been on since July 18. :(

DNA, thanks for the well reasoned defense. However, as much as I'd like to believe otherwise, I still think you're the most likely scum suspect right now, so I have to stick with my vote. I still don't feel like I have an adequate explanation for why you targeted GhostPony in the night phase.

Fletchling, I also don't want to share more about my role. I already feel like I'm sticking my neck out quite a bit here. If I'm right about DNA, I'm almost certainly going to be targeted as a threat by the remaining wolves in the next night phase. If I'm wrong and he's innocent, then pretty much everybody will assume that I was a cunning wolf and managed to cast unwarranted suspicion on DNA, and I'll probably get voted out on the next day.

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:27 pm
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To clear up the confusion about items and passing them round, as I said earlier last round I had an item and when I asked HW about it, he said I wasn't allowed to pass it to someone else. My item was dropped the same way Fletchling's was, so I think that probably items are like this.

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:29 pm
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Different55 wrote:
What makes you think that lynching Fletchling will make item dropping cease? Seems like the only way to get rid of it for sure is to hand it to someone about to be lynched.


This is true, and it's my mistake. I forgot that we haven't yet figured out whether or not killing Fletching will destroy the birdseed. All I'm really trying to say is that the birdseed should either stay with Fletchling permanently, or be destroyed. If Fletchling can't hold it permanently, and lynching Fletchling will bury the birdseed with him, than it might be a smart tactic to consider.

Basically,

Vote: Birdseed

Based off of the information we know so far, that damn bag of birdseed is a bigger threat than any of the so-far accused. Just think about it a bit, guys.

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:47 pm
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Night 2 has fallen.
Excerpt from The Log of H.W. wrote:
Dusk, Day 2

It appears as though the death and the additional markings have finally taken their toll. The group has finally realized that there are killers among us! Much to dismay, however, is that while the Californian boy came under heavy suspicion, he was not found guilty and was not casted out among us. I only fear what night will hold for the Wisconsin man who called him out. More alarming was when the English man said that he required birdseed. What for is hard to tell, but a woman whose last name was Kiga held out her hand to show that she is in contact with the item. This is evident by the seed shape burn mark on her palm.


Marks:
GhostPony750 - 3/4
SanguinaryScientist - 1/4
Kiga - 1/4


Edit: whoops. this goes to show of how I fail at knowing people

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Last edited by Haunted Water on Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:19 pm
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I'm sorry...I was given the Birdseed, but I didn't know what to do with it. I had asked HW if it was possible to give items away, but I haven't gotten a response back from him. I guess Wailord answered this for me, though... I had found it odd when Fletchling said that whoever had it would receive a mark, as I didn't have a mark at the update after it was given to me, so I was suspicious of his statement, and why he might lie about it. Well, I guess he wasn't lying, after all. If there is a way to give it back, I'd most likely do so, but I find it kind of worrying that it could be lost so easily, and 'randomly' assign marks while healing Fletchling's own injuries. Still though, it clearly does me no good.

By the way...umm, I'm a 'she', not a 'he'. I guess it doesn't matter here, but being referred to as a man is still kind of annoying...


Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:22 pm
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ALL ITEMS CURRENTLY HELD WILL BE DROPPED IF NOT PASSED! REDISTRUBITION WILL BEGIN IMMEDIATELY!

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Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:29 pm
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Haunted Water wrote:
ALL ITEMS CURRENTLY HELD WILL BE DROPPED IF NOT PASSED! REDISTRUBITION WILL BEGIN IMMEDIATELY!


So does this mean we can pass items, and if so, how do we do that?

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Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:26 pm
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But I like my item D:
And I'm not sure from the post, did anyone actually die?

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Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:11 pm
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Nobody died, Kiga got a mark, presumably from the bird seed.

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Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:06 pm
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Ok, it seems like I've caught up with everything that's been said. So hey everyone! Also, it's worth noting that I have an item that requires me to address everyone as "senpai." So screw you, Haunted Water senpai. This is not desu at all.

I would advise everyone not to lynch Fletchling-senpai, at least not until we figure out a better way to handle the birdseed. We don't have a whole lot to go off of right now, but hopefully something else will come up soon.

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Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:37 am
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Welcome to Werewolf 23, where not posting during the night is too mainstream

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Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:10 pm
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Perhaps if I add a post then posting during the night will start to seem mainstream and people will stop doing it?

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Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:31 pm
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...it's night? Good grief, I get too little sleep as it is. See you all in the morning!

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Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:34 pm
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...Only when I facedesk hard enough to get a headache do I fully agree with DNA on something.

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Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:08 pm
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