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 Scizor trouble 
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Ace Trainer
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I wanted a Scizor on my team, but I don't know what would make a good Scizor. I was thinking either between a baton passer or a sturdy sweeper. Ideally, I'd like to have a combination of both, where he's good enough to fend for himself and deal heavy damage, but if something threatening comes in, then he can high-tail it out of there, while passing on his boosts to other Pokes coming in.

This is a very rough draft of what I was considering:

Scizor @ leftovers? Or Occa berry? etc. ?
Nature: Adamant/Impish
Ability: Swarm (depends on longevity...)
EVs: HP:252-ish Atk:Either the remaining evs, or an even split from def/spd Def:Fair amount Spd:Enough to be fast...(however many that is...)
Moveset:
Baton Pass
Swords Dance/Agility
X-Scissors
Brick Break/Iron Head/Roost

Could you guys help me out?

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Last edited by Volke on Sat May 17, 2008 2:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Fri May 16, 2008 5:42 pm
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well... a scizor that has garanteed me a 5 win streak on Wi-fi is this one:

@Leftovers
Carefull
252 ATK 129 SPD 129 S.DEF

Swords Dance
Aerial Ace
X-Scissor
Protect

of course u can take out protect to put baton pass... but that is up to you...
This scizor is also the one that made me win my championship here in Brazil last year on Emerald... although it had silver wind instead of X-scissor...

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Fri May 16, 2008 5:57 pm
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Cool, thanks man, especially how fast I got a reply; didn't think I'd get one till tomorrow.

I'm assuming that it has technician as an ability? It can go either way, but then there's aerial ace.

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Fri May 16, 2008 6:37 pm
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yeah.... Tehcnician ability is better... since aerial ace's power is doubled... =D

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Fri May 16, 2008 9:20 pm
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Location: Umm...that's a good question
Yes techician is probably the best choice. It can make metal claw 2x of damage!! Metal claw=100 and can raise attack. Aerial ace=120 and always hits. Tell me, who wouldn't want it.

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Sat May 17, 2008 12:16 am
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DragonSpear wrote:
Yes techician is probably the best choice. It can make metal claw 2x of damage!! Metal claw=100 and can raise attack. Aerial ace=120 and always hits. Tell me, who wouldn't want it.



Uhhh technician only raises moves of 60 or less base power by 1.5. Metal claw would be 75 power and aerial ace would be 90.

I've preferred swarm+x-scissor on mine, 120 power+STAB is quite deadly


Sat May 17, 2008 2:11 am
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Hmm...I would choose Swarm cos it fits in better with Endure+Reversal combos...X-Scissors would benefit from it greatly. Although Technician would work a lot better for Scizors with other movesets. :)


Sat May 17, 2008 6:17 am
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Yeah, if technician doubled the damage, then technician ftw. Seeing how it doesn't, I would go with swarm and X-scissors. I'm stuck between Brick Break, Iron Head, and Roost for the last slot. Also, could someone help me out with the nature and EV spread? Lots of them look good; I just don't know which one is the most useful.

What is the advantage of having a Scizor with Endure+Reversal, if Lucario does it better? I want to know your views on it, Sapphirath.

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Sat May 17, 2008 9:07 am
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Volke wrote:
Yeah, if technician doubled the damage, then technician ftw. Seeing how it doesn't, I would go with swarm and X-scissors. I'm stuck between Brick Break, Iron Head, and Roost for the last slot. Also, could someone help me out with the nature and EV spread? Lots of them look good; I just don't know which one is the most useful.

What is the advantage of having a Scizor with Endure+Reversal, if Lucario does it better? I want to know your views on it, Sapphirath.


Well, look at it from this point. If you have Swarm, and you teach X-Scissors and Endure + Reversal Combo, you get a double bonus. Swarm will activate because you have 1HP left, and Reversal's power when you have 1HP is scary. Swarm will compliment the Endure + Reversal Combo in this way. Having 2 Endure+Reversal combo using Pokemon in your team makes a lot of difference than just one. Cos if one fails because the foe has a counter, you can take out the counter and the Second Endure+Reversal combo using Pokemon will own from there. Of course, it's a different story if the opponent has more than one counter but most people aren't too wary of this combo because they find it too easily countered. See my point now? :)


Sun May 18, 2008 4:40 am
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Sapphirath wrote:
Volke wrote:
Yeah, if technician doubled the damage, then technician ftw. Seeing how it doesn't, I would go with swarm and X-scissors. I'm stuck between Brick Break, Iron Head, and Roost for the last slot. Also, could someone help me out with the nature and EV spread? Lots of them look good; I just don't know which one is the most useful.

What is the advantage of having a Scizor with Endure+Reversal, if Lucario does it better? I want to know your views on it, Sapphirath.


Well, look at it from this point. If you have Swarm, and you teach X-Scissors and Endure + Reversal Combo, you get a double bonus. Swarm will activate because you have 1HP left, and Reversal's power when you have 1HP is scary. Swarm will compliment the Endure + Reversal Combo in this way. Having 2 Endure+Reversal combo using Pokemon in your team makes a lot of difference than just one. Cos if one fails because the foe has a counter, you can take out the counter and the Second Endure+Reversal combo using Pokemon will own from there. Of course, it's a different story if the opponent has more than one counter but most people aren't too wary of this combo because they find it too easily countered. See my point now? :)


Hmm, yeah, I think I see what you're saying...I get the 'two is better than one' statement. I just don't understand one thing: If say, I do use the Endure+Reversal combo, where does Swarm and X-Scissors come into play? Cuz Swarm only boosts bug moves...unless you're telling me to use X-Scissors as a substitute for Reversal when it fits? Like X-Scissoring a Psychic-type pokemon, because Psychic-types are resistant to Fighting? Might consider trying in the future...

Anyway, got any ideas on an EV spread for the current Scizor? I'm looking into a Baton passer/(Somewhat) Sturdy Sweeper.

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Sun May 18, 2008 8:17 am
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Exactly...when Reversal can't do the Job, X-Scissors will come in. Though X-Scissors still won't cover up for everything. That's why you need another move like Night Slash or Iron Head. Scizors really loose to Dragons though...sadly I don't think it can do anything to counter them. An EVs Spread would probably be 252 in Attack and Speed if you're going for the Sweeper set, or 252 in Hp, 70 in Speed and 182 in Sp. Def if you're looking for a Baton Passer. Why 70? Well it's to ensure that Scizor gets to Baton Pass after it uses Agility. 200 base Speed will give you a cut at 400 after you use Agility...won't have to worry about Aerodactyls, Jolteons or Weaviles. :wink:


Sun May 18, 2008 9:22 am
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Sapphirath wrote:
Exactly...when Reversal can't do the Job, X-Scissors will come in. Though X-Scissors still won't cover up for everything. That's why you need another move like Night Slash or Iron Head. Scizors really loose to Dragons though...sadly I don't think it can do anything to counter them. An EVs Spread would probably be 252 in Attack and Speed if you're going for the Sweeper set, or 252 in Hp, 70 in Speed and 182 in Sp. Def if you're looking for a Baton Passer. Why 70? Well it's to ensure that Scizor gets to Baton Pass after it uses Agility. 200 base Speed will give you a cut at 400 after you use Agility...won't have to worry about Aerodactyls, Jolteons or Weaviles. :wink:


What if I wanted to pass something else, like Swords Dance, Iron Defense, or Substitute (probably a bad idea on Scizor - Base 70 HP)? How much speed would I need then?

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Sun May 18, 2008 12:34 pm
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It's highly Unlikely that you would want to Max out the Speed of a Baton Passer who doesn't use Agility and has Slow speed to begin with. And Baton Passing 1 Boost is kinda wasting the Pokemon. So I Suggest you Baton pass 2 Stat boosts and Agility MUST be one of them...

To ensure that Scizor Baton Passes Swords dance/Iron Defense and Agility, you'll need to send it in on someone you're sure won't be able to KO Scizor in 2 turns. Swords dance may be a little of a problem, cos many Pokemon are capable of defeating Scizor in 2 turns. Iron Defense on the other hand, will allow you to tank Physical Attackers for 1 Additional turn...Baton Passing an Agility and Iron Defense should not be much of a Problem. You can also try pumping 182 EVs in Def instead of Sp. Def so that you stand more of a chance when up against a Physical Attacker. Don't ever swicth in on a Special Attacker who has high Special Attack stats...you will fail for sure.

On top of these, no one's stopping you from teaching Endure and giving another stat boosting Berry so you pass even more things on. :wink:


Sun May 18, 2008 11:41 pm
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The scizor i run is like this:

Scizor @ Life Orb
Adamant
Technician
EV: 252 Attack, 148 Speed, 108 HP
~Swords Dance
~Quick Attack
~Roost
~Brick Break

A wall breaker, his speed is low but its faster than defensive pokemon. Also has the resistance to endure physical hits from some sweepers (SOME, not all). Roost off Life Orb damage.

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Mon May 19, 2008 8:46 am
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@ Sapphirath: Hmm, that last idea...didn't think of that one.

I was thinking maybe a Scizor like this:

Scizor @ Leftovers
Adamant
Swarm
252 Atk, 120 Spe, 138 HP,

X-Scissors
Brick Break/Iron Head/Roost
Baton Pass
Swords Dance/Agility

The idea is to be a sweeper for a while, then baton pass when you think things might get ugly. What do you think?

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Mon May 19, 2008 9:13 am
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Then i would definitely run agility, so you can make sure you get the baton pass off.

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Mon May 19, 2008 12:31 pm
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Volke wrote:
@ Sapphirath: Hmm, that last idea...didn't think of that one.

I was thinking maybe a Scizor like this:

Scizor @ Leftovers
Adamant
Swarm
252 Atk, 120 Spe, 138 HP,

X-Scissors
Brick Break/Iron Head/Roost
Baton Pass
Swords Dance/Agility

The idea is to be a sweeper for a while, then baton pass when you think things might get ugly. What do you think?

Well thats kinda how my Absol works...he dies waaay too much; you should prolly put at least some defensive EVs instead of speed maybe (if you go with agility) to counteract the people who switch in something fast like {aerodactyl} {houndoom} {infernape} {typhlosion} and proceed to smash you into little tiny pieces.


Mon May 19, 2008 7:03 pm
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modim_012 wrote:
Volke wrote:
@ Sapphirath: Hmm, that last idea...didn't think of that one.

I was thinking maybe a Scizor like this:

Scizor @ Leftovers
Adamant
Swarm
252 Atk, 120 Spe, 138 HP,

X-Scissors
Brick Break/Iron Head/Roost
Baton Pass
Swords Dance/Agility

The idea is to be a sweeper for a while, then baton pass when you think things might get ugly. What do you think?

Well thats kinda how my Absol works...he dies waaay too much; you should prolly put at least some defensive EVs instead of speed maybe (if you go with agility) to counteract the people who switch in something fast like {aerodactyl} {houndoom} {infernape} {typhlosion} and proceed to smash you into little tiny pieces.


Well, I'm not so sure if there's a need to add in defensive EVs in response to those. They'll more than likely use a fire attack, since Scizor's only weakness is fire and his major flaw in his defenses is that base special defense stat (80 is okay, but it's still pretty low). Also, if they are switching in, then I should already be agilitying that turn (I wouldn't switch in on those guys :wink: ). Then if Scizor can't handle the heat (lol, get it?), he can baton pass right out. I think I'm gonna go with an EV spread like this: 148 Spe, 108 HP, and 252 Atk. Maybe I can cut some HP EVs for some defense ones? The thing is...I was hoping for a Scizor with Baton Pass, Swords Dance, and strong enough to deal heavy damage. I'm not so sure if it's possible though.

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Tue May 20, 2008 11:35 am
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Volke wrote:

Also, if they are switching in, then I should already be agilitying that turn (I wouldn't switch in on those guys :wink: ). Then if Scizor can't handle the heat (lol, get it?), he can baton pass right out.


If you can, a good strategy to add to that is to baton pass to a {ninetales} {arcanine} or {flareon} and have them absorb the fire attack launched at scizor. >:D

How's this Scizor

Adamant @ Muscle band. Swarm
252 ATK 152 SPD 104 HP
-Iron head (STAB + flinch rate works well w/ agility)
-Agility
-Baton Pass
-X-scissor (STAB + killer w/ swarm) OR Swords Dance (Scizor's attack is good enough that SD is nice, but not necessary, though I'd put it in over X-scissor if your team really need an attack booster.


Tue May 20, 2008 7:25 pm
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Yeah, Scizor draws fire like a magnet. Heatran is also a cool idea (and maybe a better option). Agility, Baton Pass to Heatran, Flash Fire boost. That way Heatran gets a speed boost and fire attack boost. :twisted:

I'm not so sure if Muscle Band is the greatest of choices. I'd go with a Life Orb or Occa Berry (The one that reduces fire attacks), or Leftovers.

I think I have an idea of what Scizor I'm going with now.

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Wed May 21, 2008 9:16 am
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