Huh...
i don't know about that...
It's NOT impossible for Shoddy make mistakes.
Shoddy is not some superior faction...
And discuss that isn't the point of the topic...
So let's go back to counter wobbie,shall we?

Well if something as big as changing the Ubers and OU list is involved, I'm sure it takes a group of people to agree to Wobbofett's demote. A group probably means the Elites of shoddy, so if they're Elites, do you think they're make BIG mistakes like that? Small ones maybe, but Big ones like upsetting the balance? Come on...Shoddy not's called Elite for nothing. You see, you guys are disagreeing to something that has been tested before by pro players and deemed safe for competitive play. The people of Shoddy are agreeing that Wobbofett can be made OU, so why disagree on a Majority of PRO players' view? You can go on forever about Wobbofett being Uber, but no matter what you say, they have tested it out before coming to the decision.

Spiritomb and sableye are both immume to both counter and mirror coat.

Also a poke with pressure + protect + stat up move can quickly stall out wobbs PP.

And I'm just gonna go out and say this isnt the first time I've disagreed with shoddy's tier listings. I feel wobb is Uber more on the sense that he kills any pure sweeper you put him in against. But meh, maybe it'll result in some more interesting/Original movesets in competive play.

If you're still looking for validation for bumping Wobbs down to OU, just take a look at Smogon. They've put him in the "Limbo" tier, meaning that they're still deciding what to do.

The fact that they've done anything means that they're serious about possibly moving him down.

Your opinion...
and yet again it has no relevance to the topic and ,no offense but,i really don't care...
And if you really think a bunch of people that spent all their time playing and discussing pokémon and stuff are "Elite"...well...as i said...your opinion.

Mine is different from yours...and there's not much you can do about it....
And i had seen a pic in the net that kind reminded me about ya...


LOL...
See ya!

Well ...
You just saying why i shouldn't disagree...
Ok,i'm just saying that i disagree that i shouldn't disagree with what you said...
And again will repeat...
"That's mine opinion and there's not much you can do about it...."
Man and you just keep saying Shoddy are "Pro",Shoddy are "Elite",
If Shoddy said it i believe...
Shoddy has Spoken...
So if Shoddy say that breathe isn't cool you would be part of the 97% of all
pokémon players that would die?
Well...
Then i would be part of the 3% that would be ROFLing...
(This one is old...i know... )

Being a minority is not something bad everytime...Not that i care....


And about the comic...
It reminded me about you because you think that win a argument is
the greatest thing in the world...
Oh...
It's sounds like it gonna make your wealthier,make you look better,sleep better...
Or maybe you can make it a pick up line,when you go look for some girls...


I can just imagine....

Sapphirath:
Hey Babe,I just proved that wobbufett is OU,Pretty cool,huh?

Or
Sapphirath:
Want to see how my Slaking beat everyone?


Don't believe in luck?
Ok...
Just Place Shoddy Battle in the comic,instead of Lady Luck then it will be ok...


Nothing Personal...
But i guess it's too late now...
-__-

Man i'm tired of this...
CYA.

Oh RLY?

Then what are you still doing here?
Why don't you go worship they there,then ?
If they are so high and mighty,and we are insects like you said...
I'm just disagreeing to the fact that wobbuffet is OU now.
And i don't said i will disagree with then without even heard what they have to say...
Just like some people i know...
BTW if was a mosquito it would be cool,because i would infect you with Dengue and you would die...
No i couldn't because you would be a flea on Shoddy's Bu... i mean Battle



Yeah me too,that's why i'm still debating with you...

And don't need to learn to accept other peoples views...
I do accept the ones i agree w/...
I just don't agree with yours...
Just kidding.

BTW i didn't said that everything you said is crap too...(i guess...)
Taunt can really wear him down ...
but there's something you forgot,HE can switch out,you don't so he can just switch a counter when he see taunt coming.
And putting taunt on a pokémon that you won't use it standard IS over centralising the Metagame...
"Being able to counter stallers" is just an excuse you find...
That infernape you mentioned with taunt and a stat upper,can counter wobbufett only.
He will just be kicked by everything else that beats the standard and even some more things...

Oh yeah,there's something i wanted to know...
Tell me,what should be an Uber for you?



I'm Bushin,pleased to meet ya!

I didn't said that what i said is right...
I said what i think...
I really don't care of being part of the majority...
I prefer to have my own opinion,thank you.
And i'm no "pro",i just another player in the game...
I don't need to prove nothing.

You're think you right,fine.
I respect that,but,
Why the fact that i disagree with you bothers you so much?

Wobbufett is a pokémon that really don't appeal to me...
I rarely use it...
it's annoying,it's childish,it has no strategy,no creativity,and i only use it in Fun Teams...
And someone using it look's almost as serious as someone that use Arceus/Darkrai and Ubers outside their metagame.
(Don't meant to offend anyone but...oh well...)

And i'm an insect?
Ok...
But i'm the bug that annoys you to extend that
if a land on your soup,
you lose you dinner...
Fine to me!

And there's something you forget...
I don't care to be the minority.

And i really don't want/need to win no sensible people to my side because of pity...
If they do agree with me it's because of their own opinion.
I'm not trying to force people to see things my way.

If they don't agree,it isn't the end of the world.

Btw,why are you calling me bug and stuff...
I don't remeber calling you nothing like that(before you start,i mean)...

Can we just skip the Flaming plz?

*Yep,nothing about the theme of the topic...weee! *

lol!!!!! bushin vs sapphirath battles are the reason i get up in the morning!! this one is great

i have to say i think wobb should be uber. as ROT said, smogon (if you want PROs go there) is undecided. and just because shoddy is TRIALLING wobb in OU doesnt mean it will stay there. (im pretty sure its just a trial at this stage).

to put it all in perspective, think about some other way-over-used pokes.

blissey. it can stop millions of pokemon dead. starmie, pretty much any straight special sweeper. BUT there are heaps of ways to kill blissey right? but imagine we now give blissey the shadow tag ability. it comes in on starmie, and its a aguaranteed kill. only then can you switch in your blissey counter, but of course its too late by then. you dont have your starmie any more. and of course blissey just switches out.

garchomp. if it gets a single turn to set up, youre in huge trouble. comes in against something that cant hurt it too much, and swords dances. imagine if it had shadow tag. it could come into a thunderwave blissey without ice beam, set up completely and then kill your whole team.

the point about wobb is that yes you might get to counter it, but only after it wipes out a pokemon of its choice. and even then it will usually just switch out, and come back in after a nice wish pass.

i'll tell you what sapph..... you go and find a shoddy PRO (and i mean a REAL PRO). tell him/her they have your permission to use a wobbuffet. play your favourite standard OU team. then you will see why it should be an uber. dont just go by how the AI or kids use wobb. on netbattle i usually laugh when someone with 6 ubers challenges me. rayquazas with hyperbeam, i usually 6-0 them. but ocasionally you come up against someone with 6 ubers who actually know how to use them. then, its usually 0-6.

wobb is too strong. something tells me he will be back in ubers soon enough.

umm o eke...what does counter it EASILY? what move makes it so that wobboffett cant switch out and send in a normal counter for that pokemon...what counter is it?

and do you know any OU pokemon that can COMPLETELY, counter an Uber...IE mewtwo, darkrai, palkia...

Reason Wobuffet is Uber: Shadow Tag
If you can't Switch, You're Screwed if you don't Have Wobuffets Counter in.
Usually, It takes Mindgames to give your Oponent a "Free" Turn, But Wobuffet Just Gaurantees one.
You use Thunderwave, I encore and switch to a Ground type.
You W-o-W and I switch to a flash Fire Poke
You Toxic, And I Switch To Something Inmune/That Has Guts.
You attack, I Encore, And Mirror Coat/Counter you to death
You use anything That Isn't an attacking Move, and I encore and Switch to a counter.

So what If You use Taunt? I Can Switch out. You can't.

Your azelf used Taunt On the Same Turn I switch to Weavile. That Azelf dies A Swift Death to Pursuit.
It's an easy Kill.

So What If Taunt Owns Wobby? I can use that to my Advantage and Own you switching to a counter When you do that.(Taunt)

Wobbufet is Uber Because You can't switch in a counter, and he owns Everything in with him.
You are most Likely Going To lose at Least One Poke just because Wobbufet came in.

Also I'd Like point Out that Breloom Doesn't Completely Screw Your Team if he spores. You can Just Switch Out to Something That Breloom does Nothing Against, and Completely owns him, Like Gliscor/Skarmory

Garchomp, Despite Gaurranteing you lose a Pokemon, Can Still get a counter switched in and get owned.

FRIKKIN ARCEUS Can still Get Owned if you can switch Something That counters his set.

You just can't do the Same with Wobby.You can't Switch in a counter Because of shadow Tag and, as said before,
You lose at least one Poke because of him, Directly or indirectly because of encore.

Name me a true counter For Wobbuffet. Some one that can Switch in and Threaten it.
...

Exactly

Really?
I know a move that counters blissey...Taunt or Snatch...
then she is forced to Attack(Taunt:she can't use her healing moves;Snatch:YOU steal her heal moves ) and she can do nothing to pokémons stallers like Dusknoir or Spiritomb because she isn't strong enough to do
much damage with Seismic toss or other special attacks...and since she won't be able to heal...

About the pokés you mentioned...
i would do the following...
Azelf:Spiritomb/Cacturne/Absol (Sucker Punch/Sword Dance FTW!)
Breloom:Tangrowth/Skarmory/Muk would do the job of stall,break the sub...Maybe Sleep Talk...

I don't know what you have on the moveslots?
But from what you said until now...you should be loaded with Taunt...
True...But the same apply for you.
YOU don't now what your opponent have in their moveslots either....



OR just maybe,you and Shoody may become the minority that think that Wobbie is OU....



I just remembered something about Taunt countering Wobbufett...
"A counter is a pokémon that switch in on a attacking turn of the pokémon you are trying to counter and force him to switch out"...So taunt isn't exactly a counter to Wobbufett!
Nothing can switch in unless you let your lose your pokémon or kill wobbufett,so the max you can do is
"Revenge-Counter" (Don't ask...just let me trip a little...^_^ ) ...
Ok you can force wobbie to switch out and you stat up...great...
But you already lost an IMPORTANT member of you team for switching in your counter...
Yep every member of your team is important,but that's theme for another topic... XD
Or only when your Taunter and Wobbie are out in the same turn...
What is a 1/36 chance...and since you don't believe in luck...
Well...



Ubers...Well...
There's a tier i really don't take seriously...
they are so powerful that they became obvious and the most easier pokémon tier to counter ever...
Because the magic combination for hitting everything ther is more Bolt-Beam over Fight-Dark...
They became easy kills for ...Yep you know the one...the most easy to counter UU of all time....
And the only UU that's viable in Ubers Metagame.
Most Uber pokémons can't do nothing to Sheddy...And they need 2 hits(Focus Sash) to kill him or effects(Toxic)...^_^
And Sandstorm almost don't exist in ubers...what makes him even stronger...
And a little story that isn't much about this topic,but is kinda fitting...
There were this Regional Tourney,whic special rule was
that you could use all legendaries and ubers that you want....
And guess what was the main pokémon of the team of the Trainer that won this tourney...



So don't come telling me that ubers are hard to counter,because they aren't...
Wobbufett is uber not because he is hard to counter...
it's because you must rely on luck(Which you said you don't believe)
or lose an pokémon to bring in your counter...
What might be fatal to your team.

That's it.


EDIT:
------------------------------------
One suggestion...
Why don't we ask the author of the Topic to make a poll,asking:
What tier should Wobbufett be?
OU or Uber?
Then we gonna know who is Minority and who is Majority,since that's one of your arguments...
I think that would be interesting ...

There Charm,Safeguard,Destiny Bond and last but not least,Splash!.
But leaving the joke aside...
It might be a good surprise to have on the team...
(the other three moves of course)...



Then,tell me please...
What's your concept of a counter?



Maybe my concept of logic is different from your's ...You never know...



First:Smogon trained,and i wrote taking this link in consideation...
Smogon,and i don't think they are lesser than Shoddy...

Did you read my post before?
Ok that's a minority,1 on 1000,but there's no majority on winners of a tourney ...
There's only one winner.
And it was this 1 shedinja in 1000,that gave him the win...
BTW,i don't think you actually researched,or based in facts to say that there are so few shedinjas
being used on Ubers Metagame...
Can you prove that?
If you can,do it please.



Again you are insulting everybody...probably gonna say that i'm twisting you words again...
It's easy to say that someone is coward when you are safe in front of your PC...
I would hate to see him in OU...because them he would be really over-used...
I mean...The metagame would crawling with those things...what would be a Pain in the back...
Not that they are hard to counter or whatever...
it's because they kill all the strategy and probably an "important" member of your team together with that...
Unless you start with an counter w/ will be a hard...
Not that my team can't deal with an Wobbie...



I see it like that neighbor,that you would love the fact you would never see him again...
But it's funny sometimes and helps rarely...
but isn't much trustworthy ...
I would love to see him kicked too ubers...




I decided to kick it...
Why?
Because i don't like it!


I have given my reasons before and i don't like to keeping repeating the same thing many times....

About the experience of people around here...
Can i really know that you are experienced just because you write with your
Geek-tionary by your side?
Can i really say that someone that use capital letters on all words don't know what they are saying?
Maybe they just speak another language and aren't perfect on english...
Have you thought about that before?

Do you really know someone just because you are reading what they say?
You might have a surprise someday...
Again,
If you think the people around here isn't experienced enough why do you even bother arguing?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fact totally unrelated:
I just figured that no one knows how to write Wobbofett's name correctly...
Not even me...
I wonder why...

Nintendo and their pokémon's names...

sapphiroth you are forgetting the most important point....wobboffett's shadow tag...you make it sound like you can switch in your pokemon with taunt..and even if you did switch it in as a revenge killer, you have to remember that there are NO MIND GAMES when playing against wobboffett...none at all...wobboffett know's what it's gonna do, you know what you are gonna do...and you know what wobboffett is capable of doing...wobboffett will pretty much ALWAYS ALWAYS do an encore.....again there are NO MIND GAMES...

True, but sableye vs. wynaut might be a good in NU

Are you referring to wobb using encore or the poke it's fighting?
If wobb encores protect or the stat up it's just gonna lose PP either way while you buff yourself up/do nothing.
If you use encore it'll counter wobb well, protect+stat up just an out-of-the-box way of doing the same, (though not as effective)

does that not make him a near-perfect counter?



QFT

I'm Sapphirath, not Sapphiroth, get that right. Anyway, you just emphasized one of my points for me. Wobbufett's always do Encores right? This is the exact same thing I'm telling some of the people here, because they're telling me they will switch out Wobbufett because they know I'll taunt. The reason why Wobbofetts will get owned by taunt, is because the trainers are expecting a Stat Boost, not a Taunt, or they're expecting an attack. So they use Encore. Just like Heat Proof on a Bronzong instead of a Levitate. I'm sure you guys use Fire attacks instead of Ground attacks when you see Bronzong right? No mind games when fighting Wobbufett? Perhaps there'll be plenty of them when you fight People who already know about this countering strategy.

I made my point really clear that you send in Wobbufett's counter as a Revenge Killer. Perhaps I didn't use the term "Revenge Killer", so some of you didn't really understand. Wobbofett's clearly a Double Edged sword in this manner. When the Revenge Killer is sent out against it, it Must switch, which gives the Revenge Killer time to set up. Unlike normal pokemon whom you can just use to fight to the end and weaken the one boosting stats, Wobbofett's nothing like that cos it can't fight to the End. It'll just give Revenge Killers more time to set up if it decides not to switch. It takes out one of your Pokemon yes, but you can easily pay your opponent back with a Revenge Killer who had a free turn to set up.

Defination of counter? That'll probably be something that really beats a Pokemon on fair terms. Switching in on a Pokemon to counter it isn't fair because the counter has 1 less turn to fight back.

This I believe is very logical, perhaps one more example will wake you up. "I managed to defeat a tied upChampion kick boxer in kick boxing." Wow, did I win because I could? No. I won because he was at a extreme disadvantage before I took him on. This is what many cases are when you switch in a Pokemon against another. An Alakazam can defeat a Gengar because it's faster and can easily KO the Gengar with Psychic. But would it be the same situation if Alakazam was switched in on Gengar? Clearly not right? Who in the right set of mind will disagree with this?

Oh, and it's understood that Shedinja is weak, so no way it can really "own" in Ubers. It's weak because it's too easily defeated. Who cares about a lvl 1 Shedinja owning a lvl 100 Arceus because Arceus doesn't have a counter for it? It's too risky a Pokemon, and therefore weak. Simple as that, because Shedinja is by far the only Pokemon where the most extreme circumstances can take place. You don't have a counter for it, you're really toast. You have a counter for it, it's nothing to you. And think, which team of 6 ubers doesn't have a counter for Shedinja? Hmm...may be a mere 1% or less of such teams can get owned by Shedinja? Go ahead and get a Shedinja because you want to counter the super minority of trainers, no one's stopping you.

Do I need research to tell me that few people use Shedinja? It's in UU, what is better proof than that? Who would use a UU POkemon in Ubers? Would you use a Magikarp to fight a Rayquaza?

The question "Are you guys cowards?" is a rethorical question, so I'm insulting no one here. No one here's a coward right?...Another rethorical question.

The only problem I see now is not whether Wobbufett can be countered, it's what happens when a Wobbufett meets a Wobbufeet. Yes Shadow Tag's been changed, but the situation's still the same if both Wobbufett are the trainer's last Pokemon. It will then be a battle that would probably last up to 20 mins or more because they have to use up all their pp before their only offensive attack, Struggle, can be used, and even then, it'll take super long to reduce all the opponent's possibly 500+ Hp to zero. I'm not surprised if Wobbufett remains banned because of this.

Biasedness has never been the way I judge Pokemon...I accept anything that's useful.