Just let the topic die...
The higher ups won't accept banning him to Ubers anyway...

It looks as though half of you don't understand how they sort Pokemon into tiers.

Alakazam used to be OU (I think). He was one of the best Special Sweepers out there, along with Gengar and Starmie.

Then who should suddenly appear into the metagame than Magnezone. His speed was catastrophic, but that was supoorted by his good defenses. Then there was his Sp. Attack, only 5 Base away from Alakazam. What did they think?



They couldn't keep Alakazam there. Oh no, they couldn't. Too many OUs could cause problems. What do they do? Move him down.

Now to my point.
Why is Alakazam UBL and not OU? Because there are better Pokemon than him.
Why is Machamp UBL and not OU? Because there are better Pokemon than him.
Why is Charizard UBL and not OU? Because there are better Pokemon than him.

Why is Garchomp OU and not Uber? Because there are better Pokemon than him.

That definition, AKART, is only viable for Ou vs. BL. for uber vs. ou, Garchomp would have to pretty much undefeatable by a standard team.


BTW, Mamoswine can take Garchom pon very nicely - the defense stats can take him on, in any form except ChainChomp (Fire Blast is the only real worry, I think)

110 Base HP, 80 base Def.
130 Base attack, Avalanche, ice shard, Rest-STalk,

Mamoswine does great, especially in hail teams - snow cloak basically makes stone edge never hit, and the neutrality + defense makes it guaranteed to survive it (unless Swords Danced two or 3 times - you have to be pretty bad to let chomp do that).



Hippowdon, with ice fang and slack off, will counter it easily. though, the sandsteam is unwelcomed for brightpowder sets (in countering them, I mean).



The bulky dancer set may pose the biggest threat, pretty much requiring hail teams now - sub/swords dance/earthquake/dragon claw @salac berry requires that Ice beam (with residual hail damage)/blizzard be used to take it down.

i'm sorry, i would ahve to disagree with that....
alakazam was not moved because too many OUs....he just lost movepool....alakazam utilized the punching moves very effectively in advance generation since they were all special (just like hitmonchan)...so now he doesnt have a great offensive movepool like he used to..well he gained shadow ball/focus blast/grass knot which is good, but thunder/ice cover alot more now in the OU metagame...
And also, alakazam lost it, because there are many ways of countering it now and many more first priority moves that will OHKO alakazam...metagross can now safely switch in on a HP fire and hit back with bullet punch...and with pursuit being physical now, weavile counters alakazam perfectly if it doesnt switch in on a focus blast...
Overall he didnt get moved down because ppl outclassed him and got better tthan him, i would say that he brought himself down by losing power, and many counters came his way in this generation...O and dusknior as well comes back with shadow sneak no matter what move alakzam is running

Machamp is not BL, he's OU. No Guard'ed Dynamic Punch/Stone Edge is as dangerous as aviar flu.

The reason why Garchomp is not Uber is, I think, that he's ability and stats, combined with SD are quite crazy when they're all together at the same time, you just have to make it happen to spell disater for the opposing team. My point is that Garchomp is OU because:

1. It doesn't get Priority move.

2. In these lands, people are more attracted to him than my cousin is to Beckham, thus preventing Uber-ban.

3. There is no three.

4. In Ubers, you know how many Dragon types are flying around, right? So Ice/Dragon-type moves are as used as milk is for an ice cream.

5. Using Tar/Hippo/lolOwn Sandstorm is a bad idea when Groudon and Kyogre roam around, and so is setting up, because you basically won't have time to do it.

6. I either have a Cloyster for using Ice Shard on him and his brothers, or Aggron to switch into his (and Dragonite's) Outrage and Metal Burst/Avalanche them (and Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor SpecsMence) to the next world.

Apperrantly, People don't seem to Understand that No matter How well A pokemon Does In Ubers, If He overcentralizes the metagame, He Has to go Regardless Of Bias.

Although I could Care less About garchomp's position in the tier list, He Is the reason Most teams Carry An Ice type like Weavile, or cloyster, Or froslass.

Why?
Because of Garchomp and friends.

And About him not Being so Good in Ubers;

Look at this


So even IF he gets the Uber ban, He will still Feel right at Home.
I'm Voting for Uber. Mostly Because He Is too strong for OU.

I voted for OU, mainly because I never had much trouble with him. I would always send out my choice scarf Medicham first, and Garchomp would usually be the first one sent out. I would ice punch it for a 1hko every time, when it occasionaly has a focus sash, it either didnt kill my Medicham by using a stat-up move, letting me finish it off next turn, or used an attack move and sadly didnt kill my Medicham in one hit.

Also, people who love Garchomp wont accept him getting banned to ubers.

And We are All Forgetting The Anti-counter Garchomp AKA Chain Chomp, Which 2HKO's the Majority Of his Supposed counters.

And We are All Forgetting The Anti-counter Garchomp AKA Chain Chomp, Which 2HKO's the Majority Of his Supposed counters.[/quote]

Only last thing...
Why you use capital letters in ALL your words?
It's really not of my business but,
it is kinda annoying......
Looks like were talking to a robot or something...

I just have to ask, Who exactly are these "higher ups"?

I don't know...actually nobody knows...
I just "THEY"...
the cheap noobs that love to use garchomp and will cry until they can use it...
Just kidding...
I love to type nonsenses...you will get used to it...

"THEY" is almost like an agreement between the whole community on different forums and websites...and that's also another thing i was thinking of...if garchomp is moved up to ubers...then it pretty much wont be used at all...basically banning it from gameplay completely...

Oh, really now. Judging by the Attack Stats of Salamence, Dragonite, Metagross, Tyranitar, their defenses, Salamence's Intimidate, all that stuff. Has this Xcfrisco guy ever thought of supporting the fact that these guys should also be Uber? Send in Yache/Sash on Salamence, Dragonite, not much difference. Oh, Garchomp has 102 Speed. How is that going to make much difference from Salamence's base of 100? Lets see, Ice Shard doesn't make a OHKO. Tyranitar survives a Brick Break from Salamence even without any items. I have read the entire post, yes. Everbody out there, check it out. Try it. See if I'm right.

If Garchomp has to be made Uber, then so do Salamence, Dragonite, Tyranitar and Metagross.

Outspeeding the 100 Base speed group is a *BIG* difference so that meas that
will always be attack before ...
(Assuming that they have the same nature and items...ie
Choice Scarf and/or Jolly/Timid...)
And i don't thinka Salamence could survive a Intimidated Ooutrage...

Salamence doesn't get STAB EQ or Outrage. Dragonite doesn't get 102 base Spd or STAB EQ. Tyranitar and Metagross are played so differently I'm not even going to bother. And none of them get Sand Veil. It's not just attack stats.

The thing about Ice Shard not OHKOing is that if you are up against a Garchomp and it's faster than you (likely), it's your only shot. And it fails, and you die and Garchomp proceeds to rape your team.

I want someone in this thread to give me a surefire Garchomp counter. I want you to tell me what you would do if you were up against a Garchomp in a Sandstorm and had no idea what set it was running and if you predict worng it gets a free turn. I want someone to tell me 'Yes I'll always predict right and every move I make will hit through Sand Veil and even if it doesn't Garchomp won't KO me and Garchomp is not broken.'

You can't do it. That would be lying.

Garchomp is also the only 1 out of the 3 most common dragons that gets Swords Dance.Fire Blast just beats up Steel types so badly.Even Skarmory fears it and Outrage is a 3HKO while Fire Fang is a 2HKO.Even Lugia can get OHKOed by Swords Dance boosted Outrage.That's Lugia,Lugia!It's the most defensive wall there is.

[/quote]
Garchomp is also the only 1 out of the 3 most common dragons that gets Swords Dance.Fire Blast just beats up Steel types so badly.Even Skarmory fears it and Outrage is a 3HKO while Fire Fang is a 2HKO.Even Lugia can get OHKOed by Swords Dance boosted Outrage.That's Lugia,Lugia!It's the most defensive wall there is.[/quote]

i'm sorry, but now you are bringin up the fact of how well he will do in the ubers...and if you are gonna bring that up, i will too....An adamant choice banded garchomp's outrage is a 2HKO a mewtwo with a few HP EVs and Defense EVs...while all mewtwo needs to do is Ice Beam it...and in ubers...not even a choice scarfed version would be that sufficient, because a 130 attack power isnt really gonna do so well without a boost from choice band...and also, his ability sand viel would be done with...rain and sun is the standard weather in ubers...with kyogre and groundon...and to clarify also with your garchomp OHKOing Lugia...it really can't..and lugia would be a good counter to garchomp....lugia is faster...lugia can also OHKO garchomp with ice beam...i'll give you damage calcs...

garchomp does outrage after sword dance to a max HP/Max Defense lugia does 305 max damage....without Max Defense lugia does 405 damage....

the way lugia would counter garchomp is that would put enough speed EVs to outspeed 102 base speed, enough Special Attack with enough to OHKO garchomp and the rest in HP...no matter what set garchomp runs not unlees i missed something...his special moves would be completely useless...not unless lugia runs a Minus Special Defense, NO IVs in special defense, lol which pretty much is the only way garchomp can kinda do something with special attacks...

All of this all together was to show how he would do in ubers....but that really doesnt matter though, because him being banned from OU doesnt have anything to do with it...

A counter for Garchomp?

That's the reason it should be uber?

Lets see now...

Lets have a counter to Salamence/Lucario/Tyranitar/Metagross/Dragonite/Rhyperior/Rampardos/Magikarp

If Garchomp should be uber, so should Salamence, Tyranitar, Metagross and Dragonite.

You want counters?Tyranitar?Oh,okay.Let's ignore a physical wall,Hippowdon.Tyraniboah isn't doing much if it runs Thunderbolt over Ice Beam.The other sets can get countered by Hippowdon as well since none of their hits will be doing much while Earthquake starts to hurt after a while.Metagross,Steelix.Earthquake from Steelix will eventually KO Metagross while Meteor Mash and Earthquake aren't KOing any time soon.Thunderpunch and Explosion are even more weak.Dragonite,again,Hippowdon.Unboosted Stab Outrage won't do much to Hippowdon and Ice Fand will 2HKO you.Rhyperior is the same as the others.Rampardos is killed by Hippowdon even more easily.Lucario huh?Well,that depends on the set.SD,don't know.Choice Specs?a Bulky version of Togekiss with Aura Sphere or a Para-flinching one will kill it and even if it doesn't,it will dramatically lower it's speed.Now,Garchomp has the power to KO Hippowdon since 95 Accuracy gets even lower thanks to Sandstorm and Swords Danced Outrage will 2HKO according to another forum.Steelix gets killed by Fire Blast along with Skarmory.Registeel and Rock are murdered by Earthquake.

none of those things you said are true counters....tyranitar as we all know,, has no counters because it can be both special and physical with many choices on both options....steelix cannot swith in on a metagross that does HP fire...so not a true counter...dragonite doesnt always have to be physical dragonite is perfect running a mixed...it can learn surf which beats hippodown...rampardos maybe...rampardos is easily walled by skarmory and bronzong too...lucario, i ran a post for this one...we came to the conclusion that is has no true counters...for it is way too unpredictable...a togekiss gets no switch in a lucario's stone edge...nor for that matter a close combat probably...and for garchomp uou already read the first post of this whole forum

Counter for ?
What about ?
It take down the sandstorm and is bulky enough to take some hits...
and ohko with Ice Beam...

To anyone mentioning how well it does in Ubers, don't.

Hippowdon counters any Tyranitar without Ice Beam, which almost any Steel beats up just fine.
You seem to think a counter has to be able to switch in on any set a Pokemon could be running. Not true. If Steelix gets nailed by HP Fire on the switch, it will likely survive and can Rest it off later. Metagross then has its set revealed based on how much damage HP Fire did to Steelix and you can send out an appropriate counter such as Starmie or Swampert for mixed, Blissey for special. Dragonite rarely carries Surf becuase it has better things to be doing. Specsnite, maybe, but again that's handled by any number of special walls. Lucario is too slow for a mistake to be lethal, and if you know its set you can take it.

The problem with Garchomp is that if you guess wrong the first time, you're most likely screwed. Oh, and Sand Veil. Don't forget Sand Veil.

and the same thing cant be said about any other pokemon...Metagross can actually still run a mixed set which is very hard to stop, and if steelix runs away then it wont be a counter to metagross then....and lucario is actually fast enough to be an unpredictable threat...if you predict wrong from him you are basically screwed as well...and a Ttar with no ice beam= Garchomp with no fire moves....you are right dragonite rarely does carry surf, so we;ll just say ice beam instead, which is the same thing with more type coverage...and dragonite is very hard to wall, because of it's movepoll as well....i dont even think you can wall it, because of it's mixed status, well a cressilia most likely...dragonite still has the power to take down a cressilia if garchomp can take it down with outrage...
and a counter is a pokemon that can switch in on any set, to be a full counter for that pokemon...