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 HP: Book 7 Discussion (CONTAINS HALF-BLOOD PRINCE SPOILERS) 
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sN0wBaLL wrote:
Regarding your second point about Snape's Avada Kedavra spell, I agree with you, Galar.

Here's some proof I read from a website. In the Order of the Phoenix, Harry tried to curse Bellatrix:

"Hatred rose in Harry such that he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed "Crucio!" Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe or shriek with pain as Neville had -- she was already on her feet again ... "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she yelled. "You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it ..." (OotP pg 810/715)"

If Snape was really working on Dumbledore's orders to make it look to the world as if Snape had killed him, even if he had used the real Avada Kedavra, if he had not really meant it, if he really didn't want to kill Dumbledore, then isn't possible that the curse didn't kill Dumbledore, but only injured him badly?


Wow, now that you mentioned it....Indeed, maybe Snape didn't have the intention to kill Dumbledore, so the spell wouldn't work out properly. After all, Snape IS a good guy, so he'd never want to cause nor enjoy pain, as normal Death Eaters are used to. Hey, we have another proof that Severus is actually good!

But that's very curious. In Harry's place, I would run to Dumbledore's office and snag the Pensieve, to try to find out what happened in the past that made the Headmaster trust Snape so much...I know Severu's past has been a bit revealed in the 4th and 5th book, but I can't seem to remember the 4th book's revelations...

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Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:27 pm
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The pensieve! I didn't think of that. Perhaps now that Dumbledore is "gone", Harry would take the Pensieve and go through all of its contents? Then perhaps he'll be able to learn some important stuff...

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Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:05 am
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i re-read the order of the phoneix over the last couple days and i felt SO FRICKIN BAD for snape,when harry was in snapes pensieve,it made me hate him less and sirius more...it was soo sad :cry:

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Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:29 pm
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Right, well I finally finished reading the book and read through this post. Let me make something clear, though:

One of the horcruxes cannot possibly be Gryffindor's sword nor the sorting hat, because Dumbledore would surely have told Harry about all the horcruxes that he's already found or knows about (and he did). The sword and the hat being in his possession, I'm sure he'd know if they were horcruxes or not, and would have destroyed them already and told Harry about them.

I'm still not sure what to think about Snape, though. On the one hand, all the evidence in the book points towards him being a traitor, especially the part at the beginning with the Unbreakable Vow, because it's never indicated that anybody but Snape knew about it. So, it's rather sneaky. And then of course there's the whole thing at the end. It also connects to events in Order of the Phoenix, when in their Occlumency lessons, Snape was actually weakening Harry's mind to allow Voldemort to access it, like Harry suspected. But then again, Dumbledore comes across, throughout the entire series, not only as someone completely and totally trustworthy, but also as someone who seems to know all about everything that's going on. His trust in Snape cannot be explained only by the fact that Snape felt guilty about killing James, because Dumbledore obviously knew that they loathed each-other. There must be a deeper, more profound trust between them. I like the idea of them having made an Unbreakable vow to protect Harry, but that doesn't explain why, in the book, he's portrayed as the trator that he is. We'll just have to wait until the 7th book and see.

Also, I don't think that Harry will return to Hogwarts. Think about it: There are 6 horcruxes. Throughout the course of 6 books, only 2 have been destroyed. Meaning that 4 horcruxes, plus the final one which is Voldemort himself, must be destroyed in 1 book (book 7). I think Harry will be far too busy seeking and destroying the horcruxes to attend the school. As I mentioned before, I doubt that one of the horcruxes would be in the school right under Dumbledore's nose, so Harry won't even have a reason to go back just for a visit.

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Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:32 am
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Nido wrote:

I'm still not sure what to think about Snape, though. On the one hand, all the evidence in the book points towards him being a traitor, especially the part at the beginning with the Unbreakable Vow, because it's never indicated that anybody but Snape knew about it. So, it's rather sneaky. And then of course there's the whole thing at the end. It also connects to events in Order of the Phoenix, when in their Occlumency lessons, Snape was actually weakening Harry's mind to allow Voldemort to access it, like Harry suspected. But then again, Dumbledore comes across, throughout the entire series, not only as someone completely and totally trustworthy, but also as someone who seems to know all about everything that's going on. His trust in Snape cannot be explained only by the fact that Snape felt guilty about killing James, because Dumbledore obviously knew that they loathed each-other. There must be a deeper, more profound trust between them. I like the idea of them having made an Unbreakable vow to protect Harry, but that doesn't explain why, in the book, he's portrayed as the trator that he is. We'll just have to wait until the 7th book and see.


If Dumbledore knew about that Unbreakable Vow, than everything would have been accurately planned: Dumbledore knows Draco couldn't kill him, so Snape would have to interfere somehow so that Malfoy wouldn't have to be punished by Voldemort for failing. If Dumbledore didn't know about the Vow, maybe Snape's now doing the job by himself (considering he had planned to fool the Dark Lord), whatever it is, ignoring both Voldemort's or Dumbledore's orders.

And that's why I would snag the Pensieve if I was Harry: to try to find out the reason for all this Dumbledore's truth. But I don't think Snape and Dumbledore made a Vow to protect Harry, its just too bizarre...

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Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:56 pm
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Actually, Voldemort wanted Malfoy to kill Dumbledore, so if Snape did the job for him, it would still mean than Malfoy has failed in his task, doesn't it?

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Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:58 pm
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Yes, and Snape defied the Dark Lord by making the Unbreakable Vow with Malfoy's mum, and by killing Dumbledore instead of him despite Voldemort not ordering him to do so. This actually further emphasizes the "Snape is still good" theory, as I think both of them will need to go into hiding, at least for now.

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Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:49 am
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i think snape did not want to kill dumbledore but had to because of the unbreakeable vow and i dont think harry is a horcrux because it would mean that he would have to make harry a horcrux in that instant the avarada back fired and he would probaly too shocked to preform the spell

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Couldn't Nagini be a Horcrux? If Harry was a Horcrux, then it wouldn't of been his Mother's love that protected him-Voldemort just wouldn't have wanted to kill him, but then that screws up the prophecy-Voldemort needs the horcruxes-so in a way, Harry needs to kill himself if he is in fact a Horcrux (after he has got rid of the rest of them). I do believe Dumbledore may reappear, because who else will guide Harry to defeating Voldemort, and why can't Harry just ask his portrait, UNLESS, Dumbledore is a Horcrux, but Snape or no-one else knew it, explaining his willingness to die. But what the heck about Dumbledore's hand? If a spell did that, then can't he just cure it-but he might of thought there was no point healing yourself if you must die later on??
And another question-What is Godric's Hollow, and where did Fawkes (maybe Dumbledore) go-to find Voldemort??

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Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:37 am
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Simon wrote:
Couldn't Nagini be a Horcrux?

Dumbledore made it perfectly clear that Nagini, Voldemort's snake, is most likely a horcrux, for a few reasons. One is that Voldemort controls Nagini with such ease that it's as if he's "posessing" her - but he isn't. Secondly, in Order of the Phoenix when Harry breaks into Voldemort's mind and sees Mr. Weasley, he sees him through the snake, Nagini, because a part of Voldemort's mind is within the snake as well (if Nagini is a horcrux)

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Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:44 am
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The Horcrux that Dumbledore destroyed was probably so protected by powerful charms and magic spells that the damage done to his hand was not reversible, thus explaining the fact that the wound did not heal.

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Thats what it said, didn't it?

How could Dumbldore be a Horcrux? But it kind of makes sense - why else would he be the only one that Voldemort ever feared? Because he had the power to destroy a piece of Voldemort himslef, just by dying! It makes sense!

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Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:05 pm
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No, actually, it doesn't make any sense at all. Dumbledore explains in the book that making Horcruxes out of living things is dangerous, because they can destroy themselves at their own free will. He mentioned that making Nagini the snake a horcrux was odd enough, but think how odd it would be to make a human a horcrux? Unless it's accidental, it doesn't make sense. Voldemort must have realized the fact that someone might discover his horcruxes, or else he wouldn't put so much protection around them. So, why would Voldemort make Dumbledore a horcrux, when not only did he know that Dumbledore MIGHT find out about it, but also when Dumbledore has the full power to put an end to his own life? In short, why would Voldemort CREATE something that he will fear so much? Why would he risk everything by making Dumbledore a horcrux when, as you said, he would fear the possibility that Dumbledore will kill himself? It makes no sense.

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Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:58 am
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Harry couldn't possibly have been a Horcrux, cause Voldemort didn't get a chance to properly make him a horcrux. Even if he was, why would Voldemort want to kill one of his own horcruxes? Unless he was forced to?

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Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:34 am
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Erm my theory meant that Voldemort accidentally made Harry into a Horcrux, that he meant it for something else, but in his demise made Harry one.


Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:03 am
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sN0wBaLL wrote:
The pensieve! I didn't think of that. Perhaps now that Dumbledore is "gone", Harry would take the Pensieve and go through all of its contents? Then perhaps he'll be able to learn some important stuff...
Doesn't the Pensieve only hold memories that you choose to remove because you don't want to hold them? There's a possibility that Dumbledore didn't remove important memories, such as what made him trust Serverus so, or leads he had to other Horcruxes.

Also, I did think at one point the Ravenclaw Horcrux could be a key or a small, simular object. Something small in size would be hard to find, but after seeing the protection the locket had, it makes me wonder just how Voldemort protected the others....

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Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:20 am
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Kasiya wrote:
sN0wBaLL wrote:
The pensieve! I didn't think of that. Perhaps now that Dumbledore is "gone", Harry would take the Pensieve and go through all of its contents? Then perhaps he'll be able to learn some important stuff...
Doesn't the Pensieve only hold memories that you choose to remove because you don't want to hold them? There's a possibility that Dumbledore didn't remove important memories, such as what made him trust Serverus so, or leads he had to other Horcruxes.


Indeed. Or maybe Dumbledore put those important memories somewhere only Harry could find...not only Harry, but maybe someone else (that is good), like McGonagal. Maybe that specific memory is the key to something BIG....Something that needs to be unrevelead sometime by Harry, but only at a time when he's ready to accept some truths, involving his, his father's (and Snape's) or Dumbledore's past. Or even Voldemort's.

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Galar wrote:
Kasiya wrote:
sN0wBaLL wrote:
The pensieve! I didn't think of that. Perhaps now that Dumbledore is "gone", Harry would take the Pensieve and go through all of its contents? Then perhaps he'll be able to learn some important stuff...
Doesn't the Pensieve only hold memories that you choose to remove because you don't want to hold them? There's a possibility that Dumbledore didn't remove important memories, such as what made him trust Serverus so, or leads he had to other Horcruxes.


Indeed. Or maybe Dumbledore put those important memories somewhere only Harry could find...not only Harry, but maybe someone else (that is good), like McGonagal. Maybe that specific memory is the key to something BIG....Something that needs to be unrevelead sometime by Harry, but only at a time when he's ready to accept some truths, involving his, his father's (and Snape's) or Dumbledore's past. Or even Voldemort's.
True dat, true dat. About the only thing left I have to add to this conversation is that waiting for book seven is going to kill me.

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Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:03 pm
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Something is bugging me a bit...Remember that strange goblet, with that potion inside it? In that cave? Why did Dumbledore have to drink that potion? Couldn't he just have spilled it instead? I mean, wouldn't it be a lot easier if he had poured the whole liquid? :?

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Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:40 pm
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They couldn't get near the potion in the cave, remember? That's why they couldn't have just tipped over the basin and drained it of the potion. They had to use the goblet.

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Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:37 pm
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I really want to read HP and the half blooded prince but i havent bought it yet.


Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:03 pm
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Nido wrote:
They couldn't get near the potion in the cave, remember? That's why they couldn't have just tipped over the basin and drained it of the potion. They had to use the goblet.


Also, when they tried to use the goblet to drain the potion, the goblet would just magically empty itself. So Dumbledore had no choice but to try drinking it.

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Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:59 am
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Four points:

1. About the whole Ginny-Harry thing. It was totally stupid how Harry did the "Spiderman" thing. One of the annoying things about this book. I don't doubt that they'll get back together though, after JK Rowling went to all the trouble of getting them together in the first place.

2. I agree with the R.A.B. = Regulus Black thing, in fact it was one of the first things that came into my mind after finishing it.

3. Dumbledore is most certainly dead (or at least I hope so). I really hate those books where a character is killed off only to come back at a later date. why can't they just stay dead? Also if Dumbledore is an animagus, a Phoenix, perhaps, that doen't make him, in essence, a Phoenix, does it? I believe that the Phoenix song in the grounds was Fawkes, the Phoenix.

4. It is quite possible that Snape made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore, seeing as in the end where the big Death Eater uses the Cruciatius Curse on Harry, Snape shouts at him, saying that Harry must be left for the Dark Lord himself. Maybe Snape was actually trying to preserve his own life, hm?

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Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:12 am
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Just noticing the topic now... heh. Excellent theories, however I do believe that Dumbledore is dead, seeing how his picture was newly placed in the head's room.

I think that the scar may be a Horcrux although it seems unlikely. Snape may be still good, as also unlikely though possible. But I do think that Malfoy will be killed after attempting to run away from Voldemort.

That's basically what I think.

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Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:37 am
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I thought you people would like to take a look at this website (if you haven't heard about it yet). :P

http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com

It's preety interesting, lots of nice theories and clues. Yes, Snape is still good! ^_^

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