I always keep a hacked Lugia with me. I save it just in case a n00b with an all legendary team comes along. Other than that, Lugia is useless to me.

I understand how everyone feels, I don't think you should put PBR down though, I have actually had some really good battles on it.

I have nothing against legendaries. They're just normal Pokémon that just happen to have good stats and often good moves. As for tier 1 Pokémon (I hate the term "uber"), there's a problem with them. If anyone could use them, there's no point to use anything else. They are so powerful, that even without much strategy you can take out most Pokémon without much effort. Sure, you can still take them out, but you'll need to use a lot more effort than they will if you want to manage that. So it's either everyone has tier 1s or no one does, and unless you want every team to have a Mewtwo, a Lugia, an Arceus, etc., I say don't use them. Teams are more personal without them. If someone absolutely insists on having, say, a Mew, because they really love Mew for reasons other than its strength, I'm OK with that as long as they aren't in serious competition. It's when people fill their team with unbalanced Pokémon that everyone has access to that I get mad.

Lol, I bet Ghetto's got a Mew that he really loves. But now, you can't say EVERY single uber should be excluded. I don't lose respect for trainers if they have a Wobuffet. Besides, Wobuffet isn't actually used that much (as far as I've seen, anyway). They could easily rip through a team, Encore on those stat-raisers (I rofl'd when my Minun used Encore on an in-game Shuckle (And that's how you beat a Lv. 50 Shuckle with a Lv. 27 Minun (It's leveled up now (Far better than Plusle (Gosh, I'm using a lot of brackets))))) Encore on those Mixed Sweepers, so they're either stuck with Shadow Tag or stuck to using one move. Then its just Counter/Mirror Coat. In my opinion, there are two certain blue psychic type ubers that I shouldn't believe most people hate.

I DESPISE legendaries!
In my opinion I see no honor in a team of legendaries battling me
What gets me more is where one trainer has one legendary in their team, which I assume is there to use against other battlers who use legendaries, and they use the legendary anyway!

Legendaries are not necessarily stronger than their normal counterparts. They're pretty much just as powerful as the more useful non-legendaries, except a few. Arceus, Darkrai, Deoxys, Dialga, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Mew, Mewtwo, Palkia, and Rayquaza are in fact all unfairly strong, but not the rest. In fact, Dragonite, Garchomp, Metagross, Salamence, Tyranitar, and (though he sucks), Slaking, all have stats in the legendary range.

I don't know what all of you people are pissing and moaning about. If a person uses a team entirely of legendaries, let them!! Everyone has their own strategies. If an all legendary team works for them, then so be it. If you can't beat them with your own team, then it just means they are more skilled than you. I say use whatever you want, as long as you do it within the rules of the game. If you are going to battle with an event-only Pokemon, go ahead. Just as long as you ACTUALLY got it from an event, and not a cheat device. If you use cheat devices, then you are a coward. Deoxys with Wonder Guard, that is just pathetic. It's bad enough that the person wants to use that kind of $#!+ in the game to beat it quickly, but to use it against other REAL people who actually give a damn about raising their own teams is just sad and says that the person doing that has no patience and/or life. But if a person uses a bunch of "UUUUUUUBERRRRSSSS" then let them. Just beat them with what you have. If they didn't cheat and actually went through the trouble of raising a team, even if it is made of ubers and/or legendaries, then just battle them and have fun. QUIT F IN' B ING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!

-Ryan

DAMN IT, THIS IS A GAME OF UNLIMITED STRATEGIES!!! WHY THE HELL DOES EVERYONE GET MAD IF ONE STRATEGY IS USED MORE THAN OTHERS???? JUST LET THEM!!!!

Because that "strategy" makes almost every other strategy obsolete, almost everyone has access to that "strategy," and it takes very little real skill to use it.

Now, ryan, it would be unfair to say that. If I went through the trouble to get the UU Glalie up to its full potential, and then someone easily thrashed me with a Mewtwo; that wouldn't mean they are more skilled than me. No, it means that they are using stronger Pokemon. Which makes me believe they are actually less skilled, as they require strong Pokemon to make them good.

Then you have to figure out a way to beat that. Every real trainer knows that NO team is invulnerable. Find a weakness. Everyone has one.

-Ryan

So if a world champion kickboxer trains hard enough, he can be strong enough to kill a guy with a shotgun? Shouldn't they both be kickboxing if they're trying to test their skill and have a fair match?

Usually the people who fill teams with Mewtwo and friends have a big weakness: they suck at battling. However, the reason such Pokémon are so looked down upon is that they are so much more powerful than the others that you don't need to use strategy to do well. Sure, you can beat them with a fair team if you work your tail off and battle like a pro, but if they're being complete idiots and are able to almost beat you, or worse, actually beat you, something is wrong.

Personally, I feel that it is alright to use all legendary Pokémon because they are meant to be battled with. Although I choose not to use any in my teams because I feel it is too powerful of a team, especially if I were to effort value train them.

^Wrong.


^Right.

I use cheat devices and wouldn't even dream of using it to go outside the borders of acceptability, like a Deoxys with Wonder Guard. I hack a shiny modest Porygon-Z, which, although highly improbable, is still possible.
Competitive battling Pokemon are fine by me if they don't have hacked moves/stats/abilities and doesn't go into the boundaries of impossibility.
I sometimes do hack stuff for fun, but never would actually use the stuff in battle.

- DNA

I know. I took down an Uber team with a team composed of OU/BL/UU (this was when Mamoswine was still UU, but the popularity of Attack=130 and STAB Ice Shard makes it OU, which sucks). It had Rayquaza, Groudon, Mewtwo, and some random Pokemon. Mamoswine OHKOs Rayquaza with Ice Shard. Mamoswine = PWN. Then down goes Mewtwo with Yanmega's Bug Buzz. And Groudon with both Yanmega and Mamoswine (Double Battle).

I don't really think that battling with legendaries/ubers is fair. Ubers usually destroy an normal team, and makes a battle boring. These games were created to have fun, and getting defeated unfairly with a team full of ubers just ruins the fun of a battle (yes, like the title of the topic says). Of course, some Pokémon which are non-legends have the ability to defeat ubers, but when they hack the stats to 999 for all of the stats, or give the uber an impossible ability which gives them a HUGE advantage, then you have a coward, as said. That's my opinion.

Haha, let me guess, you're "that guy" who uses 2 Kyogres with water spout together, 2 Groudons, and 2 Mewtwos. There is no strategy there. Leave 2 guys in the middle of a flat plain in bright orange, give one a shotgun with one shot and one a sniper with unlimited ammo, oh, and btw, they're about a mile apart. Well, the sniper won with "strategy." It's really the same idea. If the sniper really, really sucks, sure he could loose, but it's definitely more than likely that he won't.

I really hate it when people use a team of all legendaries whether they know how to use them or not. Yes, you can beat a team of all legendaries, but only usually the people who use them use Mewtwo's Psychic on Dark types and Giratina's Shadow force on Normal types.


*goes off mumbling about invisible shotgun/sword campers in Halo*

Shut up, Mao, okay? I haven't used a legendary team against anyone in like 4 years! I play with whatever I feel suits me. The only reason I don't use legendaries in my team, is because I don't find them good enough for battle. Now, if they had a great set of moves, a good ability, and were two good elements, then yeah. I'd use it. But I don't have any at the moment in the teams that I use. And I have NO problem fighting people who only use legendaries and/or ubers. I will challenge anyone. Why? Because I like to have fun. And whining about who has ubers and stuff isn't fun.

-Ryan

P.S. WTH? 2 Kyogres??? 2 Groudons??? 2 Mewtwos??? OKay. Thunder both Kyogres, since it is raining. Solarbeam both Groudons, since the sun is shining. And Dark Pulse both Mewtwos. Now there. Wasn't that easy???!!!

You're being stupid and immature; Final-Teir Pokemon have very high stats [for some, extremely is a better term]. You can't just use a move off of a normal Pokemon and realistically expect it to do massive damage, even if it's Super-Effective. That's why they're in the Final Teir, and should stay there; they're too strong to fight fairly against any Pokemon but other Final-Teirs.

Yeah, easy for the handful of Pokemon that could actually go before Kyogre or survive 2 hits from the Kyogres that have a high enough special attack to take them out with Thunder.

And yes, I have seen teams several times just like this.

According to the Psypokes damage calculator, if you had a trained lvl 100 Porygon Z (which is the highest special attacker that can learn thunder) that had the highest special attack possible use Thunder against a trained lvl 100 Kyogre with the lowest special defense and HP possible, it still couldn't even get close to killing it in one hit. And of course, Porygon Z and Kyogre have the same speed, so this is granted Porygon Z actually had a chance to get a hit off.

Take the same case with Magnezone (the electric pokemon that has the highest special attack) and it still could barely kill a Kyogre in one hit of Thunder in the best possible of situations. Oh, but the Magnezone is resistant to water. Oh boy. Again, in the worst situation for the Kyogres, the 2 Water Spouts could kill the Magnezone. Blah, blah, blah one of the Kyogres would have been hit by the Porygon Z so one of the Water Spout's power would be lowered. Yeah, that's true, but I've also assumed that this Magnezone is maxed in special attack, HP, and special defense and that the Kyogre is presumably of a negative nature for each of the same and EVd in defense (which is understandable) and attack (for some unknown reason.)

I've also assumed the best possible situation in all possible ways for the non-Kyogre team. In reality, what would likely happen? That you don't have the best 2 Pokemon with Thunder who you send out first because you don't know whether they are going to send out the Kyogres, Groudons, or Mewtwos first.


On a shorter note, oh look Mewtwo has a speed of 130 and a special attack of over 150, good luck to your Dark type when Mewtwo Aura Spheres it. And well, Groudon would probably get owned because he's stupid enough to be a ground type with defense to set up Sunny Day. So, if you happened to know the exact legendaries they were coming out with and when, I guess you could try to come out with 2 Magnezones, 2 Porygon Zs (with Thunder and Solarbeam,) and 2 Weaviles (and just hope they can manage to do something against the Mewtwos before they get Aurasphered.) Oh wait, if the 2 Mewtwos were EVd in special attack and speed, it could just go ahead and Aura Sphere all of them.

But of course, these perfect little scenarios are no good. You don't know what Pokemon the other person is coming out with on a random Wi-fi battle and I doubt that most people EV Kyogre in attack. Yes, the point is to have fun, but how fun is it when you don't even get an attack off? Oh boy, I started with 2 fast physical attackers... oh... I guess I still can barely kill one if I focus both of my attacks on one Kyogre because it has a defense of 90 and base HP of 100. Well, that was fun.


*note* all of this battle logic is based on double battles, not single battles */end note*

I love exposing wordy explanations that are really nothing but wordiness, and have no real point behind them.


No it isn't. Water is the only type that hits for neutral damage on Magnezone.


Seriously, you make it sound like Dark Pulse is for Dark types and Dark types alone. Porygon-Z can learn Dark Pulse, but Gengar is better, as it's completely immune to Aura Sphere. Deoxys is even better, as in its Attack form (which is usually the only form used), with Shadow Ball or a similar move, Mewtwo gets OHKOed.
And I wouldn't think of using a Pokemon with low speed or Special Attack in this instance. A Dark Pulse on a Weavile? That's laughable.


Then your logic is halved and incomplete, and means virtually nothing without the other half. Rarely anyone does Double Battles anymore.

- DNA

Yes, the point was to use non-legendaries, so your point to use Deoxys is moot. Oh, Porygon Z can learn Dark Pulse? Well that's great since it's normal and still weak to Aura Sphere? Oh? You're fighting a Mewtwo with your Gengar? I'm sure it doesn't have Psychic because, well what kind of noob would put Psychic on a Mewtwo, amirite? Oh! Let's use strategy! Put a focus sash on the Gengar! Oh, well yet again if the Gengar had the best special attack and Mewtwo had the worst special defense and the worst possible HP, the Gengar still couldn't kill the Mewtwo in one hit. Nice try.

Yes, I was a noob when I said that Magnezone was resistant to water, I don't know what I was thinking there, but all the more likely that it'll get killed by Water Spout.

Not Dark Pulse on Weavile... Night Slash. I figured that was implied.

So uh... gonna use that Porygon Z and Gengar against Mewtwo still? How is my logic any more incomplete than yours? All of my points would be viable in single battle as well.

*sigh* I see. You're one of the people who argue just for the sake of arguing, who will find something and just contradict it for contradiction's sake.
There's no use battling with someone like you, as you'll just conjure up another far-fetched, wordy, and superfluous reply. (Which explains why your post is riddled with sarcasm.)

And I really doubt you would have tried any of this stuff yourself. Usually I respect people for their well-thought-out explanations, but this is just plain sad.
So quit trying to assert that you'll always be right (you won't, obviously), or better yet, quit trying to pick a fight.

But if you want to fight me for fighting's sake, I won't back down from you. And I'll close my post with this comment:


There is nothing wrong with using an uber to kill an uber. If they break the rules (if ubers are forbidden), why shouldn't you just to counter it?