Just for those who don´t know: USA is building a huge wall in the frontier with mexico to avoid more ilegal inmigrants.

What are your views on it?

Me?, I live in colombia but I think is a horrible insult to mexican culture and latinoamericans in general , this is the bigest expresion of discrimination and natzi ideas, does anybody remember the berlin wall ?.

It is not only a waste of money, its also going to affect the american economy because most of the work is done by inmigrants.

Eventually the wall will help mexicans to avoid that plague transpasing into theor country in my opinion (sorry if anyone feels offended I dont mean plague as Americans in general).

I have seen that people recieves americans in my country with their hands opened, they are (wrongly) admirated; and in some cases treated like kings; what do we get in return? This hipocrecy!!!!!

Anyway I would like to know people opinions about this.

Me, I am an american. Personally, we should shut off our western borders (most of the Russian immigrants that come to my neighborhood are loud, play loud music, and pollute the air - not to mention, keep sinking our foundation). You see, the US is at this point accepting these rich people that really think that they are better than us. And, when they come in, a lot of them go straight on welfare. Meanwhile, the Mexicans come in, work hard, and don't bother anyone. Yet, they get kicked out.
Edit - to avoid any misconceptions, there are some immigrants coming from Europe, etc that want to make a better life, but in my neighborhood, they are very rich, and produce spoiled children.

A wall on our borders may be a good thing, to prevent terrorists that may try to come through. And, the druglords. We also need a wall to our north, but for the same reasons - terrorism.

Don't even get me started on rants about how our foreign policy should change to Latin America - we should be alot nicer to you guys. Unfortunately, we are locked into our old European ways, and loving the europeans, as opposed to you.

Darn! There goes my chance of escaping over the border as a fugitive D: .

I think it doesn't really matter. It's preventing the population of Mexico from getting filled with fugitives O.o

Ignoring many fallacies to immediately begin discussing the topic: :(

As much as Latin Americans would love to believe, the decision to build a wall has nothing to do with race, and is only very loosely connected to the problems in the work force. The very decision to build a wall is primarily for security and legal purposes. Migrants are violating immigration laws, and America has the right to stop this. This may seem like a "rejection," but is not the intended message. Mexicans are welcome to apply for citizenship or temporary employment in the United States legally, and these applications do not deny anyone simply due to race, religion, gender, nationality, or se<b></b>xual orientation. Temporary employment applications are used to monitor the immigrants for security and tax purposes, and the citizenship applications for much of the same but to ensure that those crossing over have an understanding of the language, history, culture, and government.

Do they receive harsh treatment? Not really. I wouldn't say Latin Americans are embraced, but they are treated with respect. There's an idea that Latinos cross over and take our jobs, but the majority of illegals work on farms and assist people who wouldn't be able to otherwise afford the help. Neither are they more frequently victims of hate crimes than others, nor are they denied basic human rights or universally despised in light of this. Are they punished or abused by the government? No, there is no punishment for attempting to cross the boarder. Every illegal is simply driven back, regardless of the number of attempts, and they try again another day. Americans do not hate Latinos, and the government is not "racist" or indifferent to their struggles.

It is true that Americans are very welcome in Latin American countries (to an extent). However, there is a large anti-American sentiment that is growing in Latin America, which garabato clearly expresses, but the <b>real</b> meaning of hypocrisy lies in this. As Americans are being stereotyped as discriminatory, South Americans are only the ones beginning to generate a close-minded, negative attitude. I don't believe that this is completely unwarranted considering most of the foreign policy towards these countries in the 80's; the attempted war against drugs, Grenada, and Nicaragua and the Iran-Contra Scandal, and the continuing "imperialistic" arm of America that attempts to hold control of the nations south of it. As everyone believes, the sole purpose of decisions made by this country concerning foreign policy is to benefit itself and never holds any concern for the people in other nations. In some ways, this is true, but it is also difficult for the US to generate foreign policy and agreements between nations that are still struggling for development, economic independence, and even nationalism and identity.

Why the hatred towards us? Because we fail to use our money or open our borders to solve their problems? It is not conducive to the correction of economic and governmental failures of any nation. We have caused some plight in Latin America, and we may be able to do more to assist development, but opening our arms and checkbooks will never solve political difficulties. Nations must learn to become more independent. Easier said than done, but Americans cannot always be the scapegoat politicians use to explain away hardships and rally votes.

Yet, Americans, for the most part, are ignorant of Latin American struggles. The difficulty of living in this poverty is undeniable, and crossing over is a dangerous journey. Many die in the transition over. Families are torn apart and forced to live with meager accommodations until loved ones return. It might stand to reason that if more Americans understood and sympathized with Mexicans or Latin Americans in general, there would be more call to action to help these people. However, with the recorded billions of US dollars in Mexican hands that have crossed the border each year, the number of families that have been pulled from poverty and their continued dependence on American income are few and far between. Suffice to say, free boarders does not solve poverty or create a stable Mexican economy.

By this logic, creating a wall is not only in the interests of international law and national security, but may also help Mexico further development and create employment and business statutes to benefit all Mexicans, north, midland, south, and even former "mojados." America may seem to be forcing this upon Mexicans or that it's racially driven, but we have a right to protect our boarders.

I wish I could read thoughts on Latin American and US relations from Galar. D:

Datvu with all respect you are the one ignoring much more facts about it.


First of all it IS racist, why did they puted it only in south then?. Even if Americans want to think diferent. Remember when they criticied the Berlin wall as something "meaningless and racist"?, well its the same history, no mattter how do you call it, the message was obvius: "We dont want you as neighbors". !!Hey, that could be the new uncle´s sam saying ¡¡ .

Mexicans are welcome? *lol* Have you seen the percentaje of latins who get rejected?, now look at the European percentage and tell me again thats not racism.


Maybe you are not harsh, that doesn´t means the goverment isn´t. And you are right, latins are not taking your jobs, they go there and make hard, dirty, dangerous jobs. I´m sure the workers building the wall are the mexicans theirself.


You are the one who has no clue about American policy; they think they have the right to interfier in everyone else´s policy and biuld a wall to avoid being touched


The tipic bush tactic is: "I threat you and then I convence you I´m helping you". Is like when they invade a country and kill a bunch of inocent people, and after everything is destroyed they show up with some money just to say: "look how good we are, we are using money to solve the problems..... we caused!!!"



American goberment is violating human rights.

Massive amounts of Canadians aren't illegally emigrating from their country to the United States. They have a political system that works, and Canadians have their own personal screenings for terrorists, thus a less likelihood that terrorists will cross Canadian boarders. Mexico isn't a reciprocal nation, and does not consider crimes committed by people in other nations, and their screenings are probably only concerned with threats to their own nation. The Berlin Wall wasn't meaningless or a symbol of racism, especially considering it only divided whites from other whites. The Berlin Wall wasn't just built prevent labor from leaving East Germany (as opposed to preventing it from coming in), it was a symbol of the divide of Communism and democracy. It never had anything to do with national security or immigration laws. However, I do accept the fact that the wall created further tensions between the two sides divided, and this is a potential effect of the border wall between the US and Mexico.


Explain how our government is harsh to Latinos inside the US. And yes, one proposition of the building of the wall was to employ, not force, Mexicans to help. This is more of a favor from the Americans by creating at least temporary jobs, despite what it represents to Mexicans.


Not only is this untrue and biased, but I fail how this has anything to do with the subject at hand other than just to throw cheap punches at an attempt to insult this nation or even me.


It is not a human right to move between countries as one pleases, or to be able to work in nations of which one is not a citizen.



lol :)


Every governmental department in the United States has its own budget. The US Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is appropriating its funds to this project, and it has no correlation between funds for foreign aid, health care, or environmental policies. Ratifying the appropriation of funds for anything isn't as simple as announcing one is going to do so. A bill must be introduced, and it must be voted on, passing the majority of both the House and the Senate, and must be signed by the president. It's far more difficult to do so when the legislative majority and the executive of the nation are not of the same party, as they are in Britain. The US spends a lot of money on foreign relief, the environment, and other humanitarian efforts, but it's of little interest to foreign countries who are fixated on our evils. And even these funds have their limitations; the US does not have wealth beyond measure and cannot create Utopia tomorrow. I don't believe American considers this a solution to the problem. Consider it more of a treatment to an ailment than a cure.


I considered this for a moment, aside from not doing one's job by failing to file paperwork, but I checked to see why applications might be rejected or "ignored." It is most likely true (though I don't know the exact numbers) that there are millions of applications for employment and citizenship to the United States. Immigration is limited to 675,000 people a year since 1990, and foreign employment is limited to 65,000 people a year since 2000, which I believe the US has a right to limit immigration to the country from overcrowding, and the right to reserve employment to its citizens. Immigration is considered first come first serve, but employment is based on applicable skills and need. What is in demand here and the difference in education between Canadians and Mexicans, it might seem weighted heavily in favor of Canadian applicants.

Considering, however, that unemployment is a different figure in Canada than Mexico, and Canadians are probably less willing to pay US national, state, and local tax, on top of their own nation, provincial, and local taxation, Mexicans benefit far more from increased pay than deficits they would receive in taxes. Foreign employment by Mexicans exceeds that of Canadians. We attempt to do our part in helping our allies across the line, but we have enough trouble securing employment for all our own citizens than to have to worry about creating jobs here for those living in poverty over the boarder, unfortunately.




Not only do we claim responsibility for refugees from nations that we "ruin," but we also claim responsibility for refugees from nations we don't, family of US Citizens, asylees, Amerasians, etc. (I know you can read all that). If this isn't lenient, accepting, and "open-minded," what the hell is? Besides, the interference with Latin American government was to dissolve authoritarian governments, which produce the most refugees. Not many people flee democracy, granted some do from political unrest and the battles it causes to obtain it. Iraq might be a good example of that; I don't know the figures, but I would doubt that people would want to come to the country they believe to be the problem anyway.


I was going to make a statement similar to this. However, it's important to note that our "wall" around the sky is security in airports. The only way to have the same security at the boarders is to build a wall and create checkpoints. It might be extreme, but we're owning up to that fact that we've made mistakes, and many people don't like us, and we now have to protect ourselves at a cost, unfortunately. We're all paying for it; our taxes are taking care of it. Though, remember security isn't its only purpose.

And yeah, drug lords themselves don't cross boarders and smuggle in drugs mostly by other means. They have to be a little more clandestine than that. Not a lot of creative places to hide drugs in automobiles.

Shoot, there goes my plan to store drugs in the tires of my car and cross the border.

As we all know, Mexicans cross the border every day. There was (supposedly) a comic found distributed by a Mexican offical teling exactly how and when to cross the border. Even if that isn't true, people are crossing the border none the less. Americans have to do somthing, and I don't think we should do what that comedian said.



So what are we supposed to do? build turrets? bomb them? Heck no! They are our friends, our neghebors, and our grunt work. Most of us didn't really want to build a wall, but it had to be done.

Please don't bring Bush into this, we all know he's the biggest idiot on the planet and was rated #1 on people to be hanged in the saddam hussein thread.

Its not a "random punch" I said it in reply to this:



Was it to hard to quote that too?

And the goverment doesnt want´s to solve problems at all.



Off course you think that what I am saying is a lie, they have teach you that!!!, it wouldn´t kill you if you just taked a look at the reality from a different point off view. The history gives me the reason: Japan, Nicaragua, Cuba, Afganistan, Irak... to be continued. According to you, all this countries had big problems that needed to be solved by violence.


I´m not criticizing you, not America either, I´m talking about the stupid goverment decition to build a wall. You have no reason to feel offended. Or maybe you do?. It´s not my problem.



If I remember correctly that land (and much more) used to belong to mexico in the first place, until some country stoled it. But off course, this is probably another "cheap punch" from my side. Isn´t it?

I for some reason you think this is a lie too check this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo
15 million is nothing in comparison off what they lost.

Datvu, I hope you dont mind if I take this one.


They would love to solve problems. I know, lets solve the illegal immigration problem! But how? I know, a wall! Maybe the wall was stupid, but its a whole lot better than just letting people walk across our border like its nothing but a bunch of dirt.



Yes, we think they all have big problems. Newsflash, we aren't all miniature presidents, we have our own thoughts. You can't ask people for thier views on somthing and then claim that thier bieng brainwashed. That would be stupid. Oh, and we didn't drop any bombs on Mexico yet. Or mabe you didn't notice? BTW, the wall isn't even going all the way around, just a little bit.


Because obviously saying that our country is led by a total moron is refreshing and makes us feel better. So you insult us, then you say its not your problem? It's obviously your mental problem that led you to believe that making fun of leaders is a compliment. I don't like ur president either, but I would never say "Oh, the spanish president is a drunk idiot", Thats rude and uncalled for.



Yes, there were never any indians here (Or native americans if you find that term offensive) and De Soto never came here with a small army and commited murder after murder upon the poor indians, plundering his way through the natives as if they were trees to be cut down. Spanish people didn't just suddenly appear here on gods green earth( or insert name of religeas figure here's green earth.) , there were people here before you. It was free land, and England was at war with Spain. You expect England to just say "Oh, were you killing these people and taking thier land? I'm sorry, I'll just go back to the city and try to make wood out of thin air." Cause if thats what you thought then your in for a real surprise, they kicked spains butt and made America. Anyway, I don't tink Mexico is a place filled with bad people, I just don't want people crossing borders without bieng a citezin.

Convention of 1818 stated that there would be a demilitarized border. That means, no wall.



Yes, but the potential exists. They come up through Mexico, get on a plane, and hijack! or make it go BOOM!


Also, the americans didn't build the berlin wall - it was the soviets who did that. Get your facts straight.

DatVu, are you forgetting that we are experiencing a multi-trillion dollar debt? No, it won't take away from healthcare directly, but it will increased spending, and decrease spending on other projects in the long run.


You know what would probably cost less and do better in the long run - WAR! We invade, get the mexicans to back us, set up a non-corrupt government and introduce our ideas of plumbing, widespread electricity, etc. Oh, I should mention that yes it is considered "imperealism", it is actually continuing the idea of Manifest Destiny. We just need to make sure that the government is friendly with us, and thats close enough to conquering it.

Edit: An even better idea that costs more would be annexation, then all of those people wouldn't need to worry azbout illegally immigrating. Les laws will be broken, and more law/order can be enforced.

Just a thought

Ok, I have been kind of xenophobic about it, Im sorry.

I apologyze to Datvu, I didnt mean to call you a racist; and to everyone who felt offended.

And Alkhazor, talking about a goverment is not equal to insulting the country. I keep saying everyday my president is a flatterer asshole, but I love my country.

And yes, I have a really advanced mental problem, but it still allows me to read:



How would you felt if this happened to you:?

1. Your rich neighboor stoles half of your house (because you are an indian an therefore is considered free land). But he allows you to visit every often.

2. He suddenly changes his mind and decides you have to go trought a selection proces to go to your old house.

3. The selection proces starts getting tougher, now you dont only need money to get what you deserve, you need a certain "ticket" to visit the house.

4. You start sneaking into... your old house, maybe you will get some money if you make jobs he wouldn´t want to do (wash disshes, mop the floors, etc)

5. Suddenly he decides you can´t put a foot into his house, and puts an ugly wall to aviod even looking at you.

But apparently you justify all these because: "We didnt drop any bombs on Mexico yet "


Krisp, sorry if I am flamming you, but I thik before talking about those "illegal aliens who come to take our jobs" people should get into their shoes. I mean, most of the people who illegaly emigrates have no acces to water, health, food, education or future for their children. Meanwhile at the other side of the frontier some people trow up the food just to look thinner, spend hundreds of money on clothes thet dont ned just because is new, and waste money on 1100 Kml walls.

How would I solve the problem? this is actually a question wich deserves its own thread. I would do the same thing Latin America did when thousands of Eurpoeans arrived here trying to recover after world war II. Acepted them, legalize them (without chargin) and allow them to look for jobs without feeling threaten.


By the way I asked for opinions because I wated to discuss - Again, sorry for being rude - But I didn´t said: "Hey, post your opinion and I will agree 100% with it".

No, and that was an argument for immigration in the early and mid 20th century - the immigrants take jobs that we don't want. I don't know abvout you, but I wouldn't want to go day-in and day-out harvesting lettuce, sufferring from ehaustion, etc. However, it is a tax thingy, too. If they don't work for salary, but cash, then the taxes can't be taken out, and that is tax revenue. We should just have a thing where its a relatively open border, we just document them by a special number (give them a tag, for tracking), and let them work.

Yes - provided I were paid enough. The real way to say it would be 'Mexicans do the jobs Americans don't want to do for the pittances that companies are willing to pay for labor'.

If you ran a business that relied on manual labor, like a farm, would you rather pay an American $8 an hour to do it, or an immigrant $2 an hour? Unless there was a good chance that you would get caught employing illegal immigrants, you'd take the latter option every time, as that's $6 every hour that can go somewhere else in the company, including your own pocket. This is the attitude that we need to change.

Illegal or not, but it's an insult to Mexicans. America says:
- "You are Mexican negroids that come to my country and earn my nation's money. I don't want you. If you wanna gain money go to your bloody country, not mine."

This wall is a clear insult to Mexicans. They say "We don't want you as neighbors" and **** their poor neighbors out of their country. Hell, and they say "This wall is just for security." What kind of security is this? You let mafia bosses and strangers from Europe, but no, no! No Mexicans are allowed!

My knowledge on USA and Latin America policies are that of a 6th grader. We have so many internal political scandals and Mercosul problems of our own to deal with that information concerning that subject hardly ever comes out, also because Brazil is not always involved on this (mainly Mexico). And since I've been living in Canada for almost a month now, and have had no access to television (I'm just studying and touring), I'm currently not into this wall at all.

However, this matter has always interested me and above anything else I'd like to have some questions clarified. Yes, my statements will sound stupid for most of you, but that's because I AM pretty ignorant on this. Reading all this (mainly DatVu's posts) has certainly helped me and broadened my mind on the subject, but I still think I can give my two cents.

Okay, so, according to you guys, the US is building a wall in the boarder with Mexico to try to prevent more immigrants crossing it and coming to the United States illegaly. I don't think this will be a real effective solution but it will certainly slow them down, somehow. The US and the Mexican governments have had this problem for many many years, so I don't really think it is an offense to Latin Americans at all. However, we have to consider both sides: americans don't want to have illegal people (from wherever they come from) coming into the country, while the mexicans (or whoever it is that is trying to enter the country illegaly) will certainly be disappointed because their hopes to live a better and wealthier (?) life will face more difficulties. If I had to be on one of the sides, I would have to put myself in their places and I would obviously go with whichever side I was in the moment. In other words, I come to no conclusion. Haha.

But considering my reality (and I don't mean the Brazilian's reality, I mean MINE, especifically) is, fortunately, not even inches near the one of the poor people who have to go through that situation, understanding them is a lot more difficult than viewing the whole problem as an outsider, so I am going with the latter. My thoughts on this topic's main idea have already been put, so I'm going to extent a bit to it's secondary discussion, which is the US and Latin America relations. Remember I'm ignorant on this, so please be nice to me. D:

First thing is, when we are young and we first start studing US and Latin America relations in Geography, we learn that north americans should really stop using the "these people come here and take my job" excuse to be racist and prejudice to latins, because the massive part of immigrants who go to the US work in jobs that most north americans will simply refuse to work in, because they would view it as deteriorative, disgusting or whatever. However, I have to point out that we learn this in a very superficial an rough way, first because we were kids and couldn't understand how complex the subject is, but had to have a basic idea, and obviously because we ARE Latin Americans ourselves, even though there aren't many brazilians crossing the boarders as there are mexicans. So, I really don't know what is most americans' points of view on this, if that is how actually happens or not (actually, I would love to know what are you guys' opinions on this). We are obviously taking part on the Latins' side because, well, that is who we are.

I haven't been to the US yet (Disney World doesn't count) so I don't know how americans treat latins. From what I've heard, years and years ago, they do think we live in the jungle, amongst giant snakes, and we are a bunch of indians, and when they see pictures they never believe their eyes. Also, most americans would think the Amazon is a global territory, while it belongs to Brazil and some part to Peru, and they would always commit that infamous mistake of saying Brazil's capital is either Rio de Janeiro, or worse, Buenos Aires, or think Spanish is Brazil's native language (which is understandable to some point). I know my fellow american Psypokians are waaaaaaaaaay smarter than that but unfortunately this is the basic idea we get from the american people: that they are stupid, egocentric and sickly patriotic.

What bothered me a few years ago was the fact that the american theory was never going on the same flow as their actions. The Declaration of Independence, or whatever important document you have, would say "help the other people" while the government would always try to take advantage of the underdeveloped. To be honest, that was the most absurd idea I've ever had, but it drove me crazy, and I went through this anti-american-imperialism mode, and it seemed it would never end, but it did, fortunately. If I was the ruler of the most powerful country in the world, and had my own problems to deal with, why should I bother having to figure out solutions for people in situations even worse than mine? That is the utopia of "world peace" and "worldwide agreement and help towards poorer nations", that is the ideal we long for, but let's face the reality and accept the fact it will never happen. However, following that same idea that I don't have the obligation to help others, I would tell the American Government "please stop interfering with other governments' policies while secretly 'stealing' their resources of your interests". This only shows the United States still has their old expansion ideals, the imperialism is still going strong, but less visible, and that still makes me a bit angry. I don't really want to go farther, or deeper and talk about how the governments make secret agreements or arrengements, as shown on documentaries (and considering those to be the cruel truth), or I'll completely loose track of my point. So, to summarize, everyone should mind their own business: if they want to assist, they are more than welcome to do so, but just don't ruin everything by tresspassing your rights. This actually relates to the US desire on having the Amazon rainforest.

Apart from wanting to have our rainforest (and there is actually an american movie that talks about a "rainforest war", which makes me even more concern on that matter), the relations between the US and Brazil are... well, I'd say fine or neutral. We don't want to have the most powerful country as our enemies, so it is a smart move to not disturb them. A few polemical projects regarding uniting the north and south american markets, and other political matters seemed to have cooled down from some years to now. However, we never know when the media will restart with the news. So my point drops to the less significant relations, which is among the ordinary people.

As I said, we think americans see us as hairy people who live up in the trees and have to fight giant snakes to survive, and because of that we think most americans are stupid and straight-minded, that they are so stupid because the government makes them that way. I know I'm wrong. In fact, I'm not, because that's not how I personally feel towards americans. I've never met an american (in real life, that is), but even if I got to know one that would not give me the right to judge the whole population of americans that way.

I guess that's it. *dies* Please discuss with me, but have in mind I'm ignorant on this. D:

Nah. Mostly we see Brazilians as all living in Rio, and it's a giant party all year. The jungles have giant spiders and anacondas and whatnot and no one except natives and such live there.

Gnaaye: Let me make something clear to you: we don't mind Mexican immigrants if they come in legally. It's the ones that completely disrespect our laws that we have a problem with.

Honestly, I don't think we need a wall. We should spend the money on aid to Mexico, so we can eliminate the need or desire to come to the US just so you can make money and send it home so your family can survive.

Also, we need to make the process of getting into the country and gaining citizenship easier...or at least less long. I think that is part of why people just try to sneak across the border, they see the citizenship process as too hard or too expensive.

I said something to that extent - we replace their government with a competent one that wants to work side-by-side with us so we can help them.

No, it was made by a secret spy of the POWER (Penguins Over Worlds Enforcing Rights); but dont tell "lova" I told you

However AABM I dont hink this topic is unimportant, because -unfortunatly- what Galar said is true, we have been teached about politics based on "anti-USA imperialism" ideas; wich eventually generates a strong "anti-america" feeling as Datvu said on some people. Most Americans on the other hand still think inmigrants are just "illegal aliens who come to take our jobs" wich is also a missconception.

Thats why threads like this come handy, (where people from different parts of the world can express their opinion), to help us having a "global" point of view, not just a biased one.

I asume you speak spanish, then I recomend taking a look in "Yahoo respuestas" and "La opinion alternativa" forums to find out inmigration has been a very popular topic these days.