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 17 types forever? NOPE WE GOT FAIRIES! 
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Ace Trainer
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It seems like the last 3 generations or so (since D/P was confirmed) there have been a handful of people that wanted more types, specifically a "Light" type. Ok just because Yugioh copied pokemon by making Psychic monsters doesn't mean Pokemon needs to copy back and make Light pokemon. (I'm not serious so if you're a diehard yugioh fan don't be offended)
Speaking of Psychic, the only reason we got more types after the 1st generation was because of Psychic pokemon. The whole deal with Psychic types in Generation 1 was that they were made too powerful in the sense that no pokemon other than Psychics resisted them, there were only 2 moves (Pin Missle and Twineedle, available only to Beedrill and Jolteon, one of which was weak to Psychic) that were super effective on them, and most of them especially Alakazam and of course Mewtwo had high Special stats. There was a 5 pt plan to solve this problem: 1.Introduce Steel (resistant to Psychic and several others) 2.Introduce Dark (immune to Psychic attacks and super effective on Psychic) 3.Make Ghost super effective on Psychic instead of no effect 4.Introduce more bug type moves like Fury Cutter and Megahorn 5.Split special into Sp.Atk and Sp.Def, making Alakazam among others less bulky.
Since then there's been no other issues that were that bad in regards to typing. The closest thing I can think of is that Normal and Poison are the least super effective types but that doesn't put those pokemon of those types in any serious disadvantage. So this is why I think we're good with 17 types of pokemon. Any thoughts?


Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:01 pm
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I think we are good on types, I believe it's more of a thing with the balance/harmony among the types. Flying Type being simply an adaptation type except for only in Tornadus' case is absurd, no Wind-like type because of this. Also, I have given up on wanting Light Type to be added as a type as the Fighting Type I read in some topic was suppose to in a sense basically be the same thing & then, what about Psychic Type & or even Ghost Type as both of those can easily be considered in their own sense respectively basically the same thing & then, what about Electric Type? Light is simply too loose to be a type in Pokemon anyway as Dark Type seems to be more of a Night thing then a Evil thing at this point imo. Basically, I am just fine with the types we have now quantity wise but aspect wise there are some conflicts of interest...

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Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:41 pm
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More could be interesting, would change things up a bit at least, but it's not like it's bad as is.

Sad to say, I'm still one of those that would like to see 3 type pokemon or dual type attacks, I think that would shake up the metagame a bit.

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Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:01 pm
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Hmm... 3 types?
It would be hard to remember all the typing and what supereffective who.
And the Pokemon from the last 5 Gen are all 2 types only.
So idk...

Edit: And I think we have enough of 17 types.

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Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:35 pm
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3 typing would get confusing, but honestly I don't remember every single typing even with just 2 types for all the current ones as is, that's why I keep a pokedex app on my phone. Got the resourse, might as well use it, makes it easy to remember that off the wall type or obscure weakness you may have forgotten.

I know it won't happen, but if anything 2 type attacks would probably show up before 3 type pokemon. And 17 types are probably enough. As interesting as things like Light and Wind would be, they pretty much would just step on other current types and would be fighting over moves and stuff. There really isn't any other type that would make too much sense and would fit in at a logical manner.

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Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:31 pm
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Wind: Too much like Flying.
Light: Too much like Psychic... Speculation about this type has been around since Gen 4.

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Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:28 pm
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Ya, I've been hearing rumors of light types since GEN 3. Honestly, after they fixed the few things from GEN 1 and added Dark and Steel, things are pretty much balanced. Now some of the moves on the other hand tip the scales a lot in favor of certain types regardless of their typing, but by this point almost every type has a powerful attack or 3.

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Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:37 am
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Yeah the Light rumors have been around in Gen 3 because at that point since Gen 2 introduced 2 new types, people ( a small amount) were predicting new types every generation, but that hasn't happened, and for some reason to this day Light is a common rumor.


Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:09 pm
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Same with the rumour of Psychic/Dark/Ghost starters... The whole thing of Light doesn't even work. What are they gonna do for moves... Flash, Blinding Light, Light Punch, Sun Throw, Sunny Day, Light Ache. All of those moves suck and I came up with them in 2 mins.

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Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:41 pm
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Not to mention that two of them already exist.
Types are good as they are. Neither has a huge advantage or disadvantaged, so we're cool.

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Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:21 am
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I have absolutely no idea how people can look at the current type chart and say "Yeah, that's balanced." With Poison hitting one thing for super effective damage, Steel resisting a dozen types, Ghost being completely outclassed by Dark, as well as Ice, Bug and Fire being terrible and Water, Dragon and Fighting being overpowered. However as I said before, adding a new type would just make things an even bigger trainwreck than it already is. They just have to redo the entire thing if they want to restore balance.

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Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:36 am
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Any heard the "Yveltal is a sound type and Xurneas is a light type" theory?
It's {farfetch'd} at best.
I mean, what would either of them be super effective against and what would be super effective against them?
Other than the obvious: dark would be super effective to light/ or vice versa.

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Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:57 am
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Frost wrote:
I have absolutely no idea how people can look at the current type chart and say "Yeah, that's balanced." With Poison hitting one thing for super effective damage, Steel resisting a dozen types, Ghost being completely outclassed by Dark, as well as Ice, Bug and Fire being terrible and Water, Dragon and Fighting being overpowered. However as I said before, adding a new type would just make things an even bigger trainwreck than it already is. They just have to redo the entire thing if they want to restore balance.

That's why I said it's balanced. Unless the do a massive review of typings, you can't expect them to become much better. And adding something new would make stuff worse.
Reviewing the types wouldn't be so bad, though. Something like poison being super effective to water or ice having a couple more resistances (offensively speaking, it's great). There are many things that can be done concerning types without having to add new ones.
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Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:13 am
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Ya, I know it's not a perfect balance, that would be boring to me though. Just another typical paper, rock, scissor match up that is magic in all RPGs. The chart adds dynamic and makes since, to a degree. I mean, steel should resist certain things and have higher damages, same with a rock. It balances out by having certain attacks be more useful or do more damage. But yes, poison pisses me off cause it really does get the short end of the stick. Psychic has always been a beast, GEN 1 it was ridiculous, but now it's toned down finally. Plenty of crazy strong Ghost and Dark moves to counter it.

Things flow good for the most part, and it's always gonna change depending on which Types they flood the new games with anyways and the stats on them. Different types come and go as most popular all the time.

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Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:12 pm
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Psychic has been terrible and coasting on its Gen I reputation ever since GSC was released. BW only offered it a slight reprieve because Fighting over the years has become such a force, and now Psyshock exists to help some Special Attackers get through Blissey. Even then Psychic only hits two types for SE damage and one is irrelevant, and it doesn't have many resistances either.

And I'm sorry but Steel's pile of resistances is absolutely overpowered and bordering on ridiculous because how does one even quantify Steel resisting abstract offensive concepts like "Dragon" and "Ghost" and "Dark"? Since Gen 3, Dragons and Steels have ALWAYS dominated because their type matchups are so crazy good compared to everyone else, and it's especially bad in Steel's case because the most popular attacking types are all based around what hits Steels.

Conversely NOBODY uses Poison or Ice Pokemon ever unless they have a secondary type. Why? Because Poison is an atrocious attacking type with irrelevant resistances besides Fighting, and it's pointless to use Ice Pokemon when you can just use a Water Pokemon with a much better defensive typing anyway. There's four OU Poison-types and the Poison-typing comes into play for maybe one of them (Tentacruel laying and absorbing Toxic Spikes). There's three OU Ice-types and one of them is freaking Black Kyurem who is held down so much by its Ice-typing that it's OU despite having a BST above Mewtwo.

There's really not too much flow because the type chart hasn't changed since 2000. Any changes to the balance of the types after Dark and Steel were added were caused by ridiculous moves like Stealth Rock that relegate entire types of Pokemon (even more) useless (than they already would have been).

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Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:39 pm
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Good to at least see something that resist Dragon. That one has always been overpowered and on Pokemon who generally have higher stats anyways, so a little one sided that they can just trounce over everyone.

Steel has no soul, so it can't be effected by evil thoughts and haunted. We can just go round and round on that one if you want to throw theories out about why something or another should or shouldn't be able to resist something. Steel is still destroyed by Fighting and Ground, which have some of the highest attacks out there, and fire, not so much popular but still decent attacks. Only crazy one out there is Bronzor line, but there are always the few that have to be weird. Stupid Spiritomb and Sableye.

Psychic will always be OP just cause they all tend to have high special attack, and most tend to be able to learn the super moves anyways like Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse, Psychic, Flamethrower, things along those lines.

Lot of Pokemon only get used cause of their dual typing, if we switched them all to single types only, the entire smogan chart would change. Which I don't care about anyways, I'll use what I like to have fun with (I don't use legendaries either for pvp), don't need a bunch of people telling me what I should or shouldn't based on popularity and stats.

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Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:22 pm
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the way it was set of in Generation I was that very few pokemon could stop Psychics, and that list mainly included other Psychics. Dragon and Steel apparently have an upper hand despite having weakensess that can be exploited by a wide variety of Pokemon, but it's easier for "average" Pokemon to take down Dragon and Steel Pokemon in Generation V than "average" pokemon to take down Psychic types in Generation I. And I know Poison and Ice have some flaws that makes several Pokemon with decent stats harder to use, but not everything is going to be fair. Unless this is the Anime, there are certain Pokemon that will almost always be the strongest and others that will be weaker. No variety or total balance would not make Pokemon what it is today. So yeah, the type chart is good as it is.


Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:18 pm
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If you think the current type chart doesn't have issues, then I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Because I certainly don't see balance when a Legendary with 700 BST is sitting in OU simply because it's part Ice. I'm not asking for "total balance" but for certain types to be at THAT much of a disadvantage is absurd.

Psychics really weren't that broken in RBY to the point that ALL of them were a pain to take down, also. Mewtwo was. Mew was. That's why they were banned. But Alakazam, Jynx, Slowbro, Starmie, Exeggutor? They were all very good thanks in part to Psychic being the best type of the game (for a number of reasons, not all of which are due to the type chart) but they were not gamebreaking. Chansey pretty much laughs at all of them on her own. Other than Starmie they all had the same problems - either being too fragile defensively or too slow, making them susceptible to Tauros, Golem/Rhydon, Persian, Snorlax, Explosion, etc.

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Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:52 pm
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I'll have to backup Frost here. Just because it's hard to balance things more, it doesn't mean we can call them balanced. Type weaknesses and resistances might have logical explanations. But that's not always the case. Steel, for example, can rust, unless its stainless. Yet water isn't super effective against steel, while fire is. And think that to melt steel, you need hundreds of degrees C for some considerable time.
In other words, if a type seems too strong, don't add it. Steel was supposedly introduced to counter Psychic. Over the years, though, its huge array of resistances made it so popular that it's actually a must now to run Fire Blast on a physical Salamence 'cos of Skarmory. Ridiculous.
As for Ice, it's excellent in offense, but sucks in defense. The fact that Kyurem is UU and Kyurem-B with its BST of 700 and a base Attack of 170, second only to Deoxys-A, is actually OU, and it's a miracle it's not UU, just shows that.
Poison is non-existent. Toxicroak is the No.1 Poison type thanks to Dry Skin. It doesn't use poison moves at all in most sets. The only poison moves used are Toxic Spikes, Toxic and the rare Clear Smog.
Overall, the type chart is ridiculous. Think about it. There's a reason that half of Ubers are Dragons, right? Or that the only weather which isn't allowed to use its double speed ability is rain.

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Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:29 am
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There will be that many types forever, I think.

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Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:56 am
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It's not a perfect system, and it probably never will be. They could revamp it but they won't. I still enjoy it as is mostly, and I make myself use mon's I don't normaly use from odd types just to give them a try and find out some are actually pretty good. Granted I really hate the ranking system that everyone swears by. Ya, I'm not gonna try to claim a Shuckle will win against Mewtwo or Kyurem, buy everyone gets the mentality that it has to be those mon's in that rank or they aren't good.
Yes, some just straight up aren't good, and I think they are there for a reason, it really wouldn't be fun if every mon in the game was a god Pokemon and you would be going back to heal after every fight cause it's an even match.

I wouldn't complain too much if they did redo the type chart, just have to take the time to memorize the new one again.

But I do agree that Dragon isn't as super as it looks at first glance, great stats, but seems like over half the Pokemon in the game can learn Ice Beam, so not that big a deal. Even back in GEN 1, half the mons could learn it.
Psychic GEN 1 was still strong, but could be beat. Other than Mew and Mewtwo being crazy high stats, anyone with a high attack could trounce them fairly easily.

I agree with you and agree with myself, it's a funny logic bomb in my head, haha.

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Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:25 am
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Base stats don't necessarily determine their tiers, and not everyone agrees with Smogon's tiers anyway so arguing over that is just a waste of time. So if Arcanine has a bigger base stat total than Conkeldurr, Arcanine should be in a higher tier? That's pretty much your argument about Kyurem. And besides, OU is still a good tier to be in. So yeah, the current discussions going on right now are kind of pointless. You're being too melodramatic about Ice and Poison types, along with Dragon and Steel. We're all aware of their flaws and their advantages, but you're taking it a bit too far.


Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:12 pm
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I propose the new Cheese element type, it's the secret fifth element anyways.

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Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:39 pm
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vggamer wrote:
I propose the new Cheese element type, it's the secret fifth element anyways.

I totally agree!!! :D

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Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:51 pm
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vaporterra wrote:
Base stats don't necessarily determine their tiers, and not everyone agrees with Smogon's tiers anyway so arguing over that is just a waste of time. So if Arcanine has a bigger base stat total than Conkeldurr, Arcanine should be in a higher tier? That's pretty much your argument about Kyurem.


This example is puzzling because a big reason why Conkeldurr is so useful is because it's one of the most overpowered types in the game right now, and Arcanine has always suffered partially because Fire is such a garbage type defensively. Black Kyurem has the second highest BST in the game after Arceus, none of its stats are bad or even worse than "above average" and it's not like it has a limited movepool, which you could argue for Arcanine. But it's still not banned from OU because Ice.... hampers it defensively pretty damn hard. Similarly you could change nothing about Conkeldurr besides making it pure Poison-type and it'd likely disappear from standard battles.

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Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:24 pm
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