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 Broken Things... Battle Wise 
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Pokemon Master
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What are somethings that you consider broken towards the battle scene. Things that are just so one sided and ridiculous.

The biggest thing like this for me is Choice Band Bullet Punch Scizor. I have done some math for this. With absolute max attack and Choice Band Scizor's attack is 591. With STAB and technician into play Bullet Punch's power rises all the way up to 135.

So to put it simply. Its a 135 power attack with priority coming off an attack stat of 591, unless you have HP Fire Magnezone, or any other thing that resists it then you are screwed.

EDIT I did my math wrong for Bullet Punch's power, it is actually 90 I factored STAB in twice.

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Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:56 pm
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shinashu taji wrote:
So to put it simply. Its a 135 power attack with priority coming off an attack stat of 591, unless you have HP Fire Magnezone, or any other thing that resists it then you are screwed.

Actually quite a lot of things resist Scizor and force a switch: take Heat Rotom and Heatran for example. Another powerful Scizor set is Swords Dance, but, neither set makes Scizor too strong to be OU.

shinashu taji wrote:
What are somethings that you consider broken towards the battle scene. Things that are just so one sided and ridiculous.

If you consider something broken, then most likely you should revise your team to counter common OU threats.

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Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:19 pm
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The only thing I ever considered broken is Serene grace+flinch on Jirachi and togekiss, simply because it brings the game to a luck shot, which has the odds against you. I could probably shrug it off if it weren't for both pokes being bulky, immune-free flinch moves, and access to T-wave or body slam.

Acid rain is broken, but that's obvious.

Also leech seed is kinda on my list, mostly because 100% of the drain restores the opponent whereas all other drain moves take 50%, just seems out of place.

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Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:12 pm
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The way how in the battle tower wifi trainers use Garchomps Blissey and sone other variant to counter my Scizor, Cresslia, and Zapdos trio.
its not fair, Garchomp is Uber for a reason...

Substitute variant pokemon... Very hard to stop once they set up, plus moves like rock blast or double hit miss too often too break substitutes.Some moves should be made to hit substitute users...

I hate how souldew doesnt work in battle tower. why not? 100 straight wins is a serious accomplishment and few trios can make it that far.souldew lati@s make it a peace of cake.

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Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:41 am
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Ryu wrote:
The way how in the battle tower wifi trainers use Garchomps Blissey and sone other variant to counter my Scizor, Cresslia, and Zapdos trio.
its not fair, Garchomp is Uber for a reason...

True, Battle Tower is broken with the luck hax as well.

Ryu wrote:
Substitute variant pokemon... Very hard to stop once they set up, plus moves like rock blast or double hit miss too often too break substitutes.Some moves should be made to hit substitute users...

Phaze, Taunt, etc.

Ryu wrote:
I hate how souldew doesnt work in battle tower. why not? 100 straight wins is a serious accomplishment and few trios can make it that far.souldew lati@s make it a peace of cake.

Soul Dew is an uber item. Although if you want to use ubers, use Garchomp.

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Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:10 pm
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MasterChef wrote:
Also leech seed is kinda on my list, mostly because 100% of the drain restores the opponent whereas all other drain moves take 50%, just seems out of place.


Not really. Leech Seed recovers the full amount, yes, but it also takes a set percentage of the opponent's health with each turn. The other draining moves only return half because they could potentially OHKO opponents, but Leech Seed always takes 12.5% per turn.

Also, complaining about Garchomp being allowed in Battle Tower is a moot point - Nintendo couldn't care less about fan-created tiers.


Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:18 pm
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Frost wrote:
Also, complaining about Garchomp being allowed in Battle Tower is a moot point - Nintendo couldn't care less about fan-created tiers.


This man speaks the truth, again to avoid Baww about Garchump being Uber.

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Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:55 pm
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Frost wrote:


Not really. Leech Seed recovers the full amount, yes, but it also takes a set percentage of the opponent's health with each turn. The other draining moves only return half because they could potentially OHKO opponents, but Leech Seed always takes 12.5% per turn.



That 12.5% per turn is what bugs me, that the leech seeder can recover usually equal or more depending on each pokes HP stat.

Say, in a rather extreme case, a 31/0 Breloom seeds a 31/0 Blissey. Blissey loses 12.5% or 81 HP per turn that goes into healing breloom 81 HP or 31% of his maxHP per turn. (although these two pokemon facing-off is silly or stupid)
But typically an average 12.5% recovery from the seed on top of leftovers, poison heal etc. can lead to a rather annoying stall if you lack a sweeper, taunt or grass/immune poke to stop it. If the recovery was reduced to 50% it would still serve it's purpose, but the seed-stall strategies would become more manageable to deal with when lacking the above mentioned pokes.

Also leech seed bugs me in the fact a switch will pass the effect to another.

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Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:45 pm
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shinashu taji wrote:
Frost wrote:
Also, complaining about Garchomp being allowed in Battle Tower is a moot point - Nintendo couldn't care less about fan-created tiers.


This man speaks the truth, again to avoid Baww about Garchump being Uber.


I was simply stating that Garchomp, Blissey and another variant are all the pokes I see in wifi battle tower RANK 1.

Its so not cool because rank 2 or 3 are not much different because the trainers use Garchomp, Blissey combos, this is broken because of how powerful and frequent it is.
Not that Garchomp should be banned but its broken.

Also Scizor can be walled heavy by your Raikou and Moltres,so its probably how you switch out to counter it... :b

Leech Seed? Just use a grass type, then it doesnt affect you right? then use your grass type to use leech seed. that should show them.

One last broken thing:
Super Hacks in battle tower wifi. I managed to get far but its not cool that this happens. Seriously, Kingdra wonderguards or ridiculous defense on blissey is dumb. Blissey cannot lose 1 hp or so when scizor hits it with bullet punch and its just the beggining of the match with no stat changes!

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Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:13 am
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Ryu wrote:
One last broken thing:
Super Hacks in battle tower wifi. I managed to get far but its not cool that this happens. Seriously, Kingdra wonderguards or ridiculous defense on blissey is dumb. Blissey cannot lose 1 hp or so when scizor hits it with bullet punch and its just the beggining of the match with no stat changes!


This thread is meant to be broken things within the game, not hacks from outside sources.

Ryu wrote:
Also Scizor can be walled heavy by your Raikou and Moltres,so its probably how you switch out to counter it... :b


This may be true, but I was stating a move that powerful with no draw backs, coming from an attack stat like that, with priority is kinda broken. Resistances can make up for a lot of things, but sheer power can out win it.

Ryu wrote:
I was simply stating that Garchomp, Blissey and another variant are all the pokes I see in wifi battle tower RANK 1.
Its so not cool because rank 2 or 3 are not much different because the trainers use Garchomp, Blissey combos, this is broken because of how powerful and frequent it is.
Not that Garchomp should be banned but its broken.


I know what you mean Ryu, honestly I do. Garchump with SkarmBliss is quite prevalent. I see your point how it can be broken with the stats they each posses and the amount of skill it takes to use them (little to none).

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Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:35 pm
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shinashu taji wrote:
Ryu wrote:
I was simply stating that Garchomp, Blissey and another variant are all the pokes I see in wifi battle tower RANK 1.
Its so not cool because rank 2 or 3 are not much different because the trainers use Garchomp, Blissey combos, this is broken because of how powerful and frequent it is.
Not that Garchomp should be banned but its broken.


I know what you mean Ryu, honestly I do. Garchump with SkarmBliss is quite prevalent. I see your point how it can be broken with the stats they each posses and the amount of skill it takes to use them (little to none).

The AI that controls Battle Tower is so reluctant to switch pokemon that I would prefer to see Garchomp + Skarmory + Blissey on as many teams as possible - if only because the would be easy to beat. Skarmory + Blissey require only a counter to be switched in, and Garchomp can be lured. For example, suppose I switch in Raikou on Skarmory and kill it. Then the opponent sends out Garchomp, and I switch to Latios as Garchomp Earthquakes, outspeeding it next turn. The point is that their AI can't play effectively in the current metagame.

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Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:52 pm
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Sion9 wrote:
For example, suppose I switch in Raikou on Skarmory and kill it. Then the opponent sends out Garchomp, and I switch to Latios as Garchomp Earthquakes, outspeeding it next turn. The point is that their AI can't play effectively in the current metagame.


Until you fight the weird kid who puts no ground moves on his garchomp and it uses Outrage instead. :p

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Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:07 pm
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Ok so we agree then... Sigh...


Here is one that wont bother too many people, but it does get to me.

Darkrai: Speed, and Special Attack.
Dark Void is a move feared by too many, hits two pokemon at the same time if its a double battle and with wide lens it will depend on luck if your pokemon avoids this move. Uber battling is raw power, so if unless you know your opponent will use Darkrai, then your screwed...

Ok, yes many people do play by sleep clause. But in Uber battling, I find a majority of people who only use the no hacked/cheats clause. Especially in Uber tourneys.Also if its a one time only battle,Darkrai can clench victory without much effort.
Truly broken, even a Scizor Choice Band Technician Bullet Punch only does a max of around 70% on Darkrai... Truly Broken. Considering it rivals Cresslia, Cresslia gets pwned.

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Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:37 pm
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