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 Pokemon: Is it Sexist? 
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Pokemon Ranger
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Oh really?

Sue me....
:lol: :lol: :lol:

And another thing...
I enter the topic i want,i don't need to justify nothing to you.

What i trying to say is...
Go argue with your friends,kid...

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Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:12 pm
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Bushin wrote:
Oh really?

Sue me....
:lol: :lol: :lol:

And another thing...
I enter the topic i want,i don't need to justify nothing to you.

What i trying to say is...
Go argue with your friends,kid...

Well, normally agitating people for no purpose other than to laugh about it isn't called for on forums. Neither is trying to act better than others. But if that is how you wish to act, you should find a forum that allows it.

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Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:20 pm
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Zangy wrote:
Bushin wrote:
Oh really?

Sue me....
:lol: :lol: :lol:

And another thing...
I enter the topic i want,i don't need to justify nothing to you.

What i trying to say is...
Go argue with your friends,kid...

Well, normally agitating people for no purpose other than to laugh about it isn't called for on forums. Neither is trying to act better than others. But if that is how you wish to act, you should find a forum that allows it.


Nah...I like this one...
More people like you...

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Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:34 pm
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tl;dr except for the very first posts.

Considering "sexist" as the first concept, of stereotyped behaviours/atitudes, then yes, the points made don't lie. But that refers only to the fact most female trainers have "cute" Pokémon, while most males have "cool" ones, I don't see it having anything to do with the fact that there are more boys than girls in the games/show.

Pokémon is a young boys (shounen) show, so it's understandable. Young boys don't want to see a show where girls are the protagonists and do "boy-stuff", like fighting; at least, not the majority of them. It's just like that: if I want to watch Yaoi, I don't expect (and honestly don't want) to see female characters all the time, specially flirting with the males.

I don't see any problems with those stereotypes because, as Krisp said, they aren't offensive. It's also easier for us to generalize and go with said stereotypes when we are talking about something vast or even in character-building, specially if there's so many of them. And just like in real life, exceptions do exist, but are rare. I can say "all brazilians love soccer", but that isn't a genuine true, even though it's the most common, and we all accept it.

I personally prefer the cool over cute. I can easily say Blaziken owns the cutest Pokémon ever (let's say, most babies?), I prefer it to Cleffa over nine thousand times. And yet, I'm a girl. I know a guy in this community whose favorite Pokémon is pink and one of the girliest out there (actually, I know two guys). Maybe there are more exceptions in real life than on the show or games, but I guess it's probably because in the second situation it's just easier to generalize, and going with the traditional makes it easier to build ordinary characters and whatnot.

My answer to this topic is yes, but only regarding numbers and statistics. I personaly see no problems with this sexism.

By the way: Sabrina FTW. <3

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Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:40 pm
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Galar wrote:

Considering "sexist" as the first concept, of stereotyped behaviours/atitudes, than yes, the facts don't lie. But that refers only to the fact most female trainers have cute Pokémon, while most males have cool ones, I don't see it having anything to do with the fact that there are more boys than girls in the games/show.

Pokémon is a young boys (shounen) show, so it's understandable. Young boys don't want to see a show where girls are the protagonists and do "boy-stuff", like fighting; at least, not the majority of them. It's just like that: if I want to watch Yaoi, I don't expect (and honestly don't want) to see female characters all the time, specially flirting with the males.

I don't see any problems with those stereotypes because, as Krisp said, they aren't offensive. It's also easier for us to generalize and go with said stereotypes when we are talking about something vast or even in character-building, specially if there's so many of them. And just like in real life, exceptions do exist, but are rare. I can say "all brazilians love soccer", but that isn't a genuine true, even though it's the most common, and we all accept it.

I personally prefer the cool over cute. I can easily say Blaziken owns the cutest Pokémon ever (let's say, most babies?), I prefer it to Cleffa over nine thousand times. And yet, I'm a girl. I know a guy in this community whose favorite Pokémon is pink and one of the girliest out there (actually, I know two guys). Maybe there are more exceptions in real life than on the show or games, but I guess it's probably because in the second situation it's just easier to generalize, and going with the traditional makes it easier to build ordinary characters and whatnot.

My answer to this topic is yes, but only regarding numbers and statistics. I personaly see no problems with this sexism.

By the way: Sabrina FTW. <3


Yep,that pretty much said everything...
But nintendo actually make foun of this sometimes in the games...
Somebody remeber those?
Image Image

By "pink and one of the girliest out there ..." You don't mean {clefable} ,do you?
(Nevermind,i think i know who you are talking about...)

And BTW...
Let's not foget about Clair,Erika,Cynthia and Lorelei ... <3 <3 <3 <3

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Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:49 pm
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Bushin, it was funny watching you be flamed at too. :wink:
You see how easy it is to be involved.

*sigh*

Zangy you reffered to baby pokemon looking feminine, that is where I got that point.

You used " as quote marks but then used it as some I hadn't said.

I fully understand Irony, and infact it seems you are the king of it.

seeing as you quote literally everything I say...

I ????? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ???? ?? ???? DISPROVE

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Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:28 am
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Man what the hell this conversation leads N-O-W-H-E-R-E!!!

Just think Charla is an almighty Charizard supposed to be "BOOM BOOM" and "COOOOL!!!" while it's female and as expected femine.Ash's Charmander was male alright but it was a baby and thus a cute pokemon.

Female trainers have participated in great battles as well.

The anime tries to portait how the human relations would be with pokemon involved and they're good at it.

Nothing bad I believe.


Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:02 am
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wow so i had a lot that went through my mind reading that
i never really noticed pokemon being for 6-12 year old males. heh.
i was like 6 when i started my obsession of pokemon and that was from female friends telling me about it.
now im 15 which is kinda embarrassing so i dont tell people cept rly close friends
it was hard to get out of my heart :) but geez in washington its like every girl played it. idk anyone who didnt like pokemon but guys were just kinda lazy and girls were so competitive about it
but it did always bug me that misty's clothes were so tiny and its always that way in anime.
idk id wouldnt say im all girly but im not that girly. i go for stronger pokemon rather than cute a mix is great.
espeon as you can guess is my favorite :) but that started a while back idk what happened i was really lucky with him beating everything i fought so i just thought he was strong. (yes he)
but really racist and sexist isnt that different. i mean are the people in pokemon suppose to be all asian cause it's a different world but same culture.
why can't they just make a mix of everyone.
my world studies class was obsessed with talking about racism. we watched disney movies and you see like in aladan or w.e he's more white than everyone else and even thought they're all middle eastern he looks the least middle eastern. and then again with the clothes on girls. and that isn't targeted to guys.
but the statistics for gym leaders and elite and all... well i guess it is kinda true they having it exactly even isn't realist. but if like in kanto it was majority male leaders and then johto majority female and then back and forth it would still be pretty even in my opinion.
and also being stereo typical is bad it would be strange to see like all the bug catchers little female girls and then like sailor with fire pokemon and then scientist with fighting pokemon is just a little too random. or like seeing the elite 4 with high level baby/unevolved pokemon.
but that would be interesting to see ash with two girls. like even of different age and different personalities. i mean just because theres two girls doesn't mean they both have to like ash. there was two guys and they didn't both like misty?
also misty was suppose to be more tomboyish. and i always thought about it that way til i just forgot about it. it might have been how she was always kinda just really mean. she was also a gym leader. well in the game. and then her sisters had the gym in the show i believe.
i have no idea who dawn is. well kinda but ive never watch her on t.v but it seemed like may was just to show something different. like no one with ash was ever really a battler.
Anyone else ever notice... all the professors are male?
psh and female are scientifically prove to just be born smarter than guys [not necessarily the case some guys work smarter other girls dont try at all] but thats not the point i remember like one female professor. then again I don't watch much so you tell me
hmmm i bet i missed a lot of things that were more connected with the topic but i cant remember it all.
oh well. btw... my fave pokemon are psychic and ghost =] idk about much stereo typical stuff there.
in the end its obvious they tryed to make it even but probably just did stereo typical things without really thinking about it. but then again it's not much different that other shows. i mean fighting pocket monsters. sadly stereo typically for guys. i just have a thing for fighting and super power crap too :/ like dragon ball and yu-gi-yo and digimon and even stuff like mortal combat thought it's not anime. and then of course power rangers :) my fave was red :/
much wasn't said about the pokemon movies. like in pokemon heros the 2 villians were female. thought it's ish annoying how latios is like stronger one and protector of the other and is more masculine. and then latias is more feminem and just playful. i could see latios as pink and and have that personality and be feminem and then latias as blue being masculine. hmm but thats just me. again with mew and mewtwo, the masculine is more serious and strong and the feminem is more friendly and... pink.
but yeah sorry if some of that stuff was just random or weird its 2am and i start going on and on about nothing.

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Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:00 pm
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ShinyHunter07 wrote:
I think it's quite sexist. But in reality, more boys like it than girls. And the creators are guys too. Another reason is that the starters (and combee) have such a small chance of being male makes it seem sexist. I mean, I would think a smiling bee with three smiling faces should have more of a chance at being a girl.


combee has to have a higher boy rate. queen bees are always
a) hard to find
and b) female.
to fit both of these requirements, the had to up the boy percentage rate.

but yeah. i'm thirteen and go to a magnet school where 75% of the kids love pokemon. we even have our own metagame.


Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:38 pm
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Personally I don't think the series has made much headway as far as gender stereotypes go. Playing through Platinum I noticed the same stereotypes as the original series had (grass Pokemon are for girls and bug Pokemon are for boys.) There was even a joke trainer, a biker, who used only Cleffa. I haven't played Pokemon Black & White yet, but the gym leader roster was kind of disappointing. I really, really, really wanted there to be a female Bug gym leader. This was my #1 wish for BW's Pokemon League; my #2 wish actually came true and we saw for the first time a MALE grass gym leader. I'm sad that he doesn't actually train in a grass gym with some other male trainers (and female ones too of course), but I am glad we finally got one. Dento will be the series first male Gym Leader to specialize in Grass type; not counting the Grass Fort leader who is an overly happy male who uses grass type Pokemon cards (and lots of Kangaskhan cards!) in a game virtually nobody outside of Japan has even heard of.

As I said two years ago, my favorite type is Bug, which is associated with males ONLY in the games. As a kid I always wanted to overcome this by being the Bug-type trainer amongst my friends (which made me use some of RBY's most awful fully evolved Pokemon...) but it still bugs me (no pun intended) that the type is STILL associated with males only. To get a bug type avatar for WiFi I had to pick a male trainer in Pearl, and that's pretty awful.

By the way, I hate the new bug gym leader. Just sayin'. I hope that homicidal maniac doesn't use either of my two favorite Isshu Pokemon (which are both in my avatar and signature.)

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Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:54 pm
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Krisp wrote:
but it still bugs me (no pun intended) that the type is STILL associated with males only.


It was a long time until I found out Bugsy was a guy! lol. but so far, something about the bug guys is... off.
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... must I explain? I think their "style" compensates for the fact that they are guys, so I don't think it's sexist :D

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Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:03 pm
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Yes, you must explain, because I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying they're feminine/gay? Because Bugsy is a KID and Aaron isn't feminine at all. If our Bug leaders were...lets say, Will, Lucian, and Tucker, then maybe that would fit in with what you're trying to say (if you're really trying to say they're feminine, honestly I'm not really sure.)

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Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:59 pm
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Personally I think Pokemon is a little sexist. But not so much that it is offensive. I mean they play off gender stereotypes just enough for it to work and not be offensive. They don't have strict stereotypes and say that women can't have positions of power in the games and anime or be overly feminine. Iris I think is a good example, though I know hardly anything about her, she seems a tad tomboyish and isn't afraid to get dirty, and yet she seems she stil retains her more feminine qualities.

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Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:53 pm
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Krisp wrote:
Yes, you must explain, because I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying they're feminine/gay? Because Bugsy is a KID and Aaron isn't feminine at all. If our Bug leaders were...lets say, Will, Lucian, and Tucker, then maybe that would fit in with what you're trying to say (if you're really trying to say they're feminine, honestly I'm not really sure.)

Okay, I guess you got me on Bugsy being a little kid, but Aaron always seemed like a closet homosexual. The green hair with a little thing sticking up kind of like Alfalfa, and he looks like he's a glowsticker. Most of those guys are at least bisexual, mainly because they get hyped up on ecstasy and other fun drugs. So, that explains him. But the other one, from this new gen coming up, there truly is no need to explain him. His belt/pants say it all.

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Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:20 pm
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I'm not sexist in any way, but you have to admit that society is still, for the most part, male dominated. Womens' rights came much later than mens', professional sports teams are mostly men, and there has never been a female US president. It's not that women aren't capable of doing everything that men do, it's just that more males than females would want to be a sports star/rock star/president/whatever. Pokemon is no different: of course there are some women that want to use Pokemon to battle, and strong trainers regardless of sex can lead gyms and be accepted into the Elite Four, but most would rather find jobs taking care of Pokemon. This is no less important than battling, it's just not shown as much in the show or game. After all, Pokecenters are the heart and soul of Pokemon Battling, and I've never seen a single male Nurse Joy.

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Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:53 pm
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omgfail wrote:
and I've never seen a single male Nurse Joy.

You don't know the things they got. Lol.

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Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:42 pm
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Well,in defence,there was that one transvestite in Janine's gym,XD (not to be offensive,calm down),and Loreli was even tougher than Lance for me.We all agree May is awesome, and Iris(?) is going to be the only woman 8th gym leader ever (besides Clair) in pokemon White. Not to mention,it's not as if the 'feminine' pokemon only appeal to girls and are bad in battle,just thought I should say that. As my closing statement, I would like to say they're making Cyntia the 'final' trainer in BW, who is supposedly going to be tougher than Steven in Emerald. Thank you,I belive I have nade my point.*closes suitcase*

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Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:59 pm
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I think Pokemon was geared towards Boys at first, honestly i think alot of videao games are like that. I was a littel dissapointed that you couldnt play as a girl a first, i wanted to play as my Gender( yes this is my way of revealing I am in fact female), but i played as the boy, i honesty kinda liked Gold's look so i was ok to play as hin until Kris appeared in Crystal version. I still choose toplay as the boy fairly often, depending on the Generation and how much i like the male character's look. I didnt love Lucas's or Brenden's design much. I like Black's look though so Im playing as him in White Version while im the girl in Black version. They decided to add the famale character in the games when it became popular with alot of girls.

As for the Anime:
m dissipointed that:
There hasnt been a girl charcter that went out to get Badges like Ash, or that he dosent have a real female "rival"
That there wasnt a Female professor until Araragi or Champion until Cynthia

Id like to point out about the cute Pokemon thing:
Pikachu is cute, Ash has had alot of Pokmeon that can be considered cute, such as Squirtle, Charmander, Caterpie, Chimchar etc. I consider Butterfree a somewhat " girly" pokemon. Ash has not been ashamed to admit that some pokemon are cute.

I thint this is pretty pointless nowadays as Pokemon is well liked by lots of girls and boys

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:05 pm
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This will be a rant related to the topic, but feel free to totally ignore it. I like to vent.

Despite the fact that GSC is probably my all-time favourite pokemon generation, its representation of women leaves a lot to be desired. Let's have a look at our female gym leaders, shall we?

First and foremost, we have Whitney, she uses cute, pink pokemon because she's a girl and girls like pink and cute pokemon. You'd never predict that they would beat you bloody, did you? Especially that miltank. Yes, Whitney is very powerful and she won't let you think otherwise. I didn't have a problem with her until after the battle when she started crying like a three year old.
What? Don't you know that girls are emotionally fragile little flowers that will bawl their eyes out like a petty child if you defeat them?
Was it really too much to ask that the woman act like an adult? She's clearly not a child after all and she has somehow garnered the respect of all the other gym trainers (all female of course), so where's the woman did all this?

Next is Jasmine, kind, loving Jasmine. No one would ever care so much about a sick pokemon. She's like, oh I don't know, something almost stereotypically female like a nurse. More women should strive to be so loving to all earth's creatures. She's so sweet, a man could never do such a job. Never has in a pokemon game and probably never will, it is the women's place to be caregivers after all. The men can go do more important things. /sarcasm
That's not to say I didn't like the character, it's a wonderful thing to be kind and loving of course - man or woman - but the remakes confused me. In HGSS she says before you battle her "[Steel type] is very hard, cold, sharp and really strong! Um...I'm not lying!" it's as if she's trying to convince you and maybe even herself that she is all these things rather than the warm loving person we've seen her be. It's just...why? Does she think it's not okay to be nice? If kindness is equated to femininity (as it so often seems to be in the world of the pokemon games), then does she think it's a bad thing to be feminine? Boo.
I have to give it to the remakes though, they made Jasmine a big eater, which I approve of - though again, she tries to hide it and I'm left even more confused than before as to why she's hiding these things.

The final Johto gym leader is Clair who has dragons and everyone knows that dragons are powerful and difficult to train, by definition of "Person Who Uses Dragons" she's automatically awesome, right? Kinda.
She is immensely powerful and one of the toughest gym leaders out there, but when the match is over we have another Whitney-like situation: She doesn't admit defeat and she won't give you the badge. Why does she have to be such a child about this? Why can't she act like an adult?
Then there's her cousin, Lance, who is the only other automatically awesome "Person Who Uses Dragons and, of course, far surpasses his female counterpart in power and even status. Clair is left bitter that her cousin always beats her, which of course adds another layer of childishness.

There's little to rant about the Elite Four's Karen; it's very cool that she uses dark-type pokemon - a type that is constantly showcased to make ten-year-old boys wet themselves with excitement and buy more merchandise - and as the fourth member of the Elite Four she is incredibly powerful...But that's all there is to her. She says that people should try to win with their favourites rather than what is considered powerful (says the woman with an umbreon that kicks my bum every time) so we can tell that she believes in the heart of the cards and such.
And that's all.

Let's move on to Kanto, shall we?

Ah, yes, Misty. Originally, she was described as a tomboy and she believed in an all out offencive with water-types, you believed the NPCs when they said she was tough with these kinds of rumours floating around. What's the first thing we see her doing when see finally see her again after all these years? This tomboy on a date of course! With a boy! And how dare you ruin her date, scaring off her boyfriend and bugging her for a battle! As if being a gym leader was her job or something, tch! I bet that boy's name was Cody or Flak or some other high-school-american-football-player's name.
It was one hell of a shock and it's not as if dating is a bad thing, but it's as if the creaters needed to establish that she's girly in some way. I'd sooner believe she challenges potential mates to a battle than let them get to first base. My opinion may be tarnished by the anime, but couldn't she have been doing something badass instead? Like, oh I don't know, putting a stop to the Team Rocket members running rampant through her city and hiding things in her gym? In fact, where was she during all that, bumping uglies with her boyfriend in the back of his car?

Erika hasn't changed much, she's still a Yamato Nadeshiko without the badassness and still apparently high as a kite with her pretty flowery pokemon and a gym full of women again. At least in the remake the dirty old man standing outside says the gym is full of "strong trainers" rather than pretty girls that he's perving on.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... oNadeshiko

Janine, much like Clair, has a more powerful male counterpart in the Elite Four whose shadow she cannot escape and her only motivation is to make her dad proud.

Everyone remembers Sabrina. She was game-breakingly powerful with strong pokemon that had next to no weaknesses. She was tough, no doubt. In GSC with the addition of dark-types and the fact that the game as a whole wasn't as broken statistically and just a lot easier, Sabrina was notably de-powered, however she was still badass and the memories from the original games made you fear her. She foresaw you coming, her gym was still confusing and she still appeared dominant over you. Until HGSS. Let's give her a little vest and show off her navel! Let's give her a haircut! Let's remove eveything remotely intimidating about her! ...

/rant
That was a good hour or so, I'm a lot calmer now.

xox

[Note: I'm genuinely unsure about Bugsy's gender, s/he uses all-female pokemon which with the games' history would imply that the trainer is female, but I've heard that Nintendo announced that Bugsy is in fact male? For the purpose of this rant, I'm just not going to talk about Bugsy.]

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Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:38 am
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Pokemon is aimed primarily at a younger audience under the age of 10. It is quite clear that yes there is "feminine" and "masculin" pokemon. But would a typical young girl under the age of say 7, normally liking cute things, be interested in the idea of the female lead having something like a Machamp? I will admit that yes, the more submissive role that the females take, E.G. Misty being their purely as a love interest character, is a bit of an issue, and even a young girl would still be interested if they acted tougher. Remember that the game has to appeal to young children though, as that is the primary audience. There is naturally going to be distinction with the pokemon themselves, even if the characters need not be that way.

Stereotyping is all over video games though. Just take Princess Peach from Mario. The only nintendo game I can think of that doesn't give a female a weaker, damsel in distress role is Metroid. The title should probably refer to nintendo in general, not just Pokemon, because IMO, Pokemon is at the bottom of the "sexist" pile for nintendo.


Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:46 am
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Lickitung - you might be guilty of necromacy (im not a mod btw, im just pointing out..)

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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 2:02 pm
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@IceArceus12: I'm not sure, but at least he contributed to the topic.

Anyway, I think that it is impossible for anything manmade to be entirely free from bias. Be it a preference of sex, race, or favorite fountain beverage (I want to feed my Pokemon Root Beer!), human opinions will always carry over to their stories/games. That said, Pokemon is a franchise that does its best to remove this sort of thing, compared to other games like Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Dead or Alive, etc.

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Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:18 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:55 pm
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How is it Sexist?

A few years ago when D/P came out nearly everyd child our family bought the games:

7 Boys: Pokemon's are of course big-mean dark looking: Infernape, Salamence, Aggron, Steelix, etc..
3 Girls: Those cute, fluffy, kitt-ish ones: Bayleef, Espeon, Pikachu (not wanting to evolve!), Dragonair, etc..

Coincedence?

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Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:20 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:01 am
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I dunno, but these kind of arguments can be used in a lot of video game series.
Legend of Zelda? Zelda plays as the wise, peaceful damsel-in-distress and has to be saved by the big man, Link. Then there's Midna, who's snappy with her words and really likes to get her way; another female stereotype. And then there's the Gerudos; a man is born every 100 years, and that man automatically becomes king, because for some reason they don't believe in female monarchs.
Star Fox? Krystal is the damsel-in-distress in her debut, and acts chilly and aloof at first before warming up. Then she defects to Star Wolf, showing that she's gullible and naive, and then comes back to Star Fox with tears, etc. Then there's Katt Monroe, who, like Krystal, acts cold at first, and then starts showing signs of affection for Falco.
Mario? Peach is a clear stereotype of cutesy, girly princesses, and is always sweet, cheerful, endearing, emotional, naive, etc. to the point that it gets sickening. Toadette is similar. Then on the other side, there's Daisy and Syrup, who play on the stereotype of tomboy-ish girls, who try to take charge and fail.

I'm not saying that the above arguments make all of these games sexist. I'm saying that you can find hints of sexual difference in loads of game series, and Pokemon is no exception. Having some difference between males and females doesn't make something sexist.

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Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:43 am
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