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I have noticed a severe lack of discussion of how older pokemon got changed in the new generation. Many Pokemon got additions to their move sets that can totally alter their strategies.

For instance, take Teapot the Image, who was an entry hazard toxitank in gen 4 with toxic, protect, bug bite, and stealth rock (my brother hated it). After transfer and a few levels, I had a new age shuckle- one that can actually do damage! It swapped out stealth rock for the single best thing to happen to shuckle since sturdy prevented OHKO's from evil rocks and waters- Power Split.
This attack averages the <70 attack and special attack stats of shuckle (because, really, it's shuckle. Anyone putting EV's in offense is in for disappointment) with the generally much more massive stats of its opponent, essentially super boosting both shuckle's attacking capabilities and its defenses (by severely lowering the opponent's attacks).
Combined with toxic/venoshock, this actually lets the demonic bowl of ramen do some damage and makes it the bane of my brother's Image

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Sat May 14, 2011 6:44 am
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From what I've heard, Chansey is now better in competitive battling than Blissey thanks to the Eviolite.

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Mon May 16, 2011 3:39 pm
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Gallade Roxas wrote:
From what I've heard, Chansey is now better in competitive battling than Blissey thanks to the Eviolite.

You may still not know how true that is yet...or you might...

Ninetales is legitimate OU now due to it's DW ability, Drought which also gives it a more reliable Solar Beam attack & is causing a flood of Sun Teams in OU...

Steelix & Nidoking/Nidoqueen are now a much more offensive pokemon now due to their DW ability Sheer Force on top of their already useful potential as it is(more so in Steelix's case)...

I think Politoad's DW ability is Drizzle which in that case makes it a more common pokemon in 5th Gen's meta game & also as with Ninetales causes an increase in a certain weather team that in this case are Rain Teams...

Omastar & Cloyster both get Shell Smash which makes them both quite more useful then before for sure...

Chansey, Dusclops, Magneton, Vigoroth, Scyther, Murkrow & even Skiploom become either more of a threat or actual threats at all in the 5th Gen meta game with the birth of the item we all know of known as...Evolite, & there are more pokemon that benefit from it but I will stop there...

Gallade & Magnezone are also more of a pain then in 4th Gen due to changes in what is currently the 5th Gen's OU & UU Tiers...

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Mon May 16, 2011 4:18 pm
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The main Pokemon who benefit from Evolite are Chansey, Porygon2 and perhaps Dusclops. In Chansey and Dusclops' case, it's because they evolve into Pokemon who are primarily defensive and have good supporting options, so the 50% boost lets them do the job of their evolutions more effectively. Even then, Dusclops really won't enjoy losing all of Dusknoir's offensive capability, nor does Chansey like losing Blissey's ability to use Ice Beam, although she is still probably the best Pokemon to use Evolite by far. Porygon2 is a special case because it still has great Special Attack on its own, as well as a recovery move, an amazing ability in Trace and sturdiness that Porygon-Z lacks.

Pokemon like Scyther, Murkrow, Skiploom and whatever else do not care about a 50% boost to their paltry defenses in exchange for losing the other stat boosts that their evolutions get. Murkrow, in particular, has paper-thin base 42 Defenses and does not enjoy losing base 40 HP and base 30 Attack just to improve said Defenses. Speed is the main thing that Jumpluff brings to the table and Skiploom won't be doing anything with 30 less base Speed, and Scyther's type is horrible while Scizor's stats are far better defensively (and offensively, what with that huge Attack and STAB priority Bullet Punch) anyway.

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Mon May 16, 2011 4:32 pm
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Frost wrote:
The main Pokemon who benefit from Evolite are Chansey, Porygon2 and perhaps Dusclops. In Chansey and Dusclops' case, it's because they evolve into Pokemon who are primarily defensive and have good supporting options, so the 50% boost lets them do the job of their evolutions more effectively. Even then, Dusclops really won't enjoy losing all of Dusknoir's offensive capability, nor does Chansey like losing Blissey's ability to use Ice Beam, although she is still probably the best Pokemon to use Evolite by far. Porygon2 is a special case because it still has great Special Attack on its own, as well as a recovery move, an amazing ability in Trace and sturdiness that Porygon-Z lacks.

Pokemon like Scyther, Murkrow, Skiploom and whatever else do not care about a 50% boost to their paltry defenses in exchange for losing the other stat boosts that their evolutions get. Murkrow, in particular, has paper-thin base 42 Defenses and does not enjoy losing base 40 HP and base 30 Attack just to improve said Defenses. Speed is the main thing that Jumpluff brings to the table and Skiploom won't be doing anything with 30 less base Speed, and Scyther's type is horrible while Scizor's stats are far better defensively (and offensively, what with that huge Attack and STAB priority Bullet Punch) anyway.

:censored: , How could I forget Porygon2 of all pokemon, should have remembered that before even Chansey but yeah, that too of course :frustrated: ...

I know but I have seen a Scyther & some Murkrow with 1 on for I don't know what reason so I included them, probably shouldn't have done that, as for Skiploom, that was just personal preference as I was thinking about using 1 with Cotton Guard(?) but I guess it probably wouldn't matter anyway so oh well :| ...

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Mon May 16, 2011 4:38 pm
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Let's not forget Sturdy- which has become 20 times better since it prevent 1HKOs in all. Pokes like Forretress and Skarmory become a lot better with leads, since Sturdy acts as a pernament Focus Sash.

And since Lati@s lost their Soul Dew, they got bumped down to OU, but it kinda has a positive effect: they have the ever dominant Dragon type, and have good attacks and defense. So now OU teams must deal with this new threat.

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Mon May 16, 2011 7:30 pm
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Shuckle-rock$ wrote:
Let's not forget Sturdy- which has become 20 times better since it prevent 1HKOs in all. Pokes like Forretress and Skarmory become a lot better with leads, since Sturdy acts as a pernament Focus Sash.

And since Lati@s lost their Soul Dew, they got bumped down to OU, but it kinda has a positive effect: they have the ever dominant Dragon type, and have good attacks and defense. So now OU teams must deal with this new threat.

What do you mean they lost their Soul Dew?...

& {latias} has been OU even in the 4th Gen, though {latios} is OU now because the tiers aren't straightened out yet but I see it either staying in OU due to the change in threats there or going back to Ubers as it is still quite a bit of a powerful threat in OU that isn't exactly easy to take out...

Close Combat makes {arcanine} more of a threat, I forgot to mention that...

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Tue May 17, 2011 9:45 pm
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Lawence Codye wrote:
Shuckle-rock$ wrote:
And since Lati@s lost their Soul Dew, they got bumped down to OU, but it kinda has a positive effect: they have the ever dominant Dragon type, and have good attacks and defense. So now OU teams must deal with this new threat.

What do you mean they lost their Soul Dew?...

& {latias} has been OU even in the 4th Gen, though {latios} is OU now because the tiers aren't straightened out yet but I see it either staying in OU due to the change in threats there or going back to Ubers as it is still quite a bit of a powerful threat in OU that isn't exactly easy to take out...

They did lose Soul Dew, since I THINK pokes can't hold items when traded over to BW. Also, Latias was in Uber in Gen IV (even in Gen III), but I don't know what will happen in Gen V.

And let's not forget Ditto {ditto} who turned from worthless trash to unpredictable madness with Imposter. All you have to do is Baton Pass something to him or Dual Screens up, then Ditto comes out and transforms.

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Wed May 18, 2011 1:17 pm
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Shuckle-rock$ wrote:
They did lose Soul Dew, since I THINK pokes can't hold items when traded over to BW. Also, Latias was in Uber in Gen IV (even in Gen III), but I don't know what will happen in Gen V.

And let's not forget Ditto {ditto} who turned from worthless trash to unpredictable madness with Imposter. All you have to do is Baton Pass something to him or Dual Screens up, then Ditto comes out and transforms.

Latias was in OU at some point in Gen 4 & even was there late Gen 4 but I guess it went back to Ubers or that has not been updated in a while but that is unfortunate that they lost their Soul Dew item due to the bad restrictions put in place regarding the transferring of Pokemon from Gen 4 games to Gen 5 games...

Ditto is an obvious 1 though I don't think it's DW ability has been released yet though that doesn't matter in the least bit...

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Wed May 18, 2011 8:17 pm
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I think that Dusclops would actually benefit from this more than Chansey, my reasoning is pretty simple. While I have to admit that Dusknoir's attack boost is missed, pain split becomes an obvious choice on any moveset for this pokemon. Given the fact that Dusclops gains Levitate over Pressure making it immune to ground while being a stronger defensive tank, this pokemon now becomes an amazing choice for any team that runs multiple steel type sweepers. My team ran Jirachi, Scizor, and Heatran. All 3 being weak to ground types, I made sure that my remaining pokemon could stand against this with Zapdos, Breloom, and Swampert. While I cannot see myself getting rid of Swampert for Dusclops, it can still make a pretty strong case to be seen as an option. One draw back is losing leftovers for the Eviolite.

I mean you can make the same argument with chansey and that fact that she will not be losing as much as dusclops in the attack stats, you also lose the amazing leftovers and the few points in SpA that actually make Ice Beam seem like a valid choice in the move set.

I do like a lot of the new abilities that have been received in dream world, the fact that there are now pokemon outside of the Uber class that have Drought and Drizzle is great. Sturdy is fantastic, Rest + Skarmory just seems so abusive now. All in all I can actually see myself using a dusclops on a mess around team, perhaps with some moveset that just flat out tanks against anything while creating status ailment or something.


Fri May 20, 2011 2:46 pm
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Shuckle-rock$ wrote:
Let's not forget Sturdy- which has become 20 times better since it prevent 1HKOs in all. Pokes like Forretress and Skarmory become a lot better with leads, since Sturdy acts as a pernament Focus Sash.

I SERIOUSLY hate Sturdy. It gives annoying a entirely new meaning. Except when my Pokemon have it. Then its alright.

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Tue May 31, 2011 3:33 pm
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Porygon 3 wrote:
I SERIOUSLY hate Sturdy. It gives annoying a entirely new meaning. Except when my Pokemon have it. Then its alright.


OK I hate sturdy because it limits my overall powerful moves. But they made it even harder for my Articuno in battles with lower level Pokemon so I just got rid of Sheer cold. But it is not that big of a deal because the move sucks in accuracy (which is not my Articunos strong suit). So that's one of my least favorite abilities.

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Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:55 pm
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Yeah, I'll get rid of 1-Hit-KOs too. Like, Excadrill learning Horn Drill? No way.

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Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:35 pm
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Porygon 3 wrote:
Yeah, I'll get rid of 1-Hit-KOs too. Like, Excadrill learning Horn Drill? No way.


I know right man? Stupid sturdy.

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Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:24 pm
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Haha yeah dude you bet! :D

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Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:46 am
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Well guys, there are these amazing things called Entry Hazards (Spikes, Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes) and they stop sturdy from working.

Plus Sheer Cold and Horn Drill = Epic Uber Ultra Fail.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:36 am
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That's really clever. Haha I cant believe I overlooked that!

And haha yeah. I hate One-Hit-KOs. They're all fails :mrgreen:

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Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:01 pm
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I agree with both those statements. And Mutant_Mewtwo I'm sorry we don't know as much as you but please be considerate and tell us without making it seem like everyone instantly knows that information.

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Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:40 pm
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Yeah, not to be mean but he's kind of right. You might not mean to, but sometimes your posts come across a little like 'How the heck do people not know this?' type statements. Just saying.

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See how it sings like a sad heart, and joyously screams out its pain
Sounds that build high like a mountain, and notes that fall gently like rain."

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Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:00 pm
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All the special psychic sweepers (looks meanigfully at alakazam) get to revel in the Blissey killer psyshock. Special damage to the physical defense? On a reusable TM? Woot.

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Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:14 pm
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I love Steelix's new Autotomize! It's a cool move and is very useful.

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Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:57 pm
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Didn't Steelix already get Rock Polish which is the same thing anyway?

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Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:00 pm
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Frost wrote:
Didn't Steelix already get Rock Polish which is the same thing anyway?

Your point being? Autotomize looks cooler and it makes Low Kick and, to a lesser extent, Grass Knot weaker.

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Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:22 pm
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Well, I like the fact that Evolite is compatible with my Rhydon, making it more of a tank than it already is. I suppose the 5th Gen items really change the old Pokemon a lot, if you use them right!

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Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:18 am
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I actually came up with an idea that could turn out to be very useful in competitive battling, and could bring new light to older generation's under-used Pokemon. (Forgive me if someone else already came up with it) The Regenerator ability allows a Pokemon to regain 1/3 of its max HP when switching out. Combine that with the Eject Button, which if a Pokemon holds, switches it out, and Bingo, instant auto-healer. This should be used with a Corsola, Slowking, or any other Pokemon that has the ability. Slowking works well in particular when EV trained properly, focusing on Defense, SD, and SA. Start off with a Breloom, and Spore the opponent. Switch to Slowking, use Trick Room, then Me First until the opponent's defeated. Now I know that there's probably a lot of holes in this plan, but criticism is welcomed. Give {slowking} a chance!

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Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:25 am
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