Day care evolving is a bad idea, i for example like the fact it doesnt evolve as it allows certin pokemon say mudkip, to learn moves it can't learn when evolved, like Hydro pump, evolving it in daycare would also be a massive short cut to the lazy people. and you can stop trade evolutions by giving them an everstone or not equiping the item it evolves with.

huh, i always thought you could prevent trade evolutions. never tried to, so i didn't know. but i'm officially putting in a complaint now . i usually don't trade for trade evos unless i want them; so then, when it evolves, it's usually what i want, and there's no point in (other than moves) waiting to get it.

Once again, daycare evolving =/= ANY pokemon evolving in daycare.

For example, you could leave your level 1 mudkip in the daycare until it's level 100 and it wouldn't evolve.
BUT
if you left, say, "Zapig", the electric pig pokemon, in the daycare, then it would evolve into "Lonepig", the dark/electric pig pokemon.
Similarly, maybe, if you left Oddish in the daycare holding a "nifty stone", he would evolve into "Chivish", the grass/Psychic pokemon.

I can see how the terminology might be confusing, but it's not like I didn't SPECIFICALLY SAY THIS just a few short posts ago.

I was using mudkip as an example to back up my move learning point, a valid reason for not evolving in day care, say for example, your fictitous Zapig, may learn a move at lvl 56 that Lonepig wouldn't, which means youd have to train it up to 56 when Zapig might be a walking magicarp of awfulness. SO DON'T USE ALL CAPS TO POINT SOMTHING OUT THAT WASN'T RELEVANT TO WHAT I WAS SAYING

And the oddlish nifty stone idea is just leveling up holding an item, like gligar, which is were my "its lazy point comes in" cos you can easily do that outside of battle

Since G1 non-voluntary evolutions - like trade evolutions - learn the same moves as their underevolved counterparts at the same time.

I see no reason to invent a fictional, poorly designed pokemon that differs from this precedent.

In my example, Lonepig learns every move that Zapig does, and a few more.

AND I'LL USE ALL CAPS TO POINT OUT THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT whenever I please. It draws attention to the area that needs attention drawn.

well, technically since this is the "new ways to evolve" thread, labarith was on topic. i see what you mean, now, about it being only for those who it lets evolve (okay, i know that's worded weird, but i get the idea). hmmm, i wonder what we could do to make it more special, though??? maybe like it gets a ribbon, or learns some new move (to make it more worth it).

I'm pretty sure a boost in stats makes it worth it on it's own.

That said, because it IS a voluntary in-game evolution (you don't HAVE to pimp it out in the daycare), then I see no reason it can't learn new moves.

The problem with that is that hate would basically be "no happiness value", and since each Pokémon starts with 0 happiness points (unless you catch it in a Luxury Ball), just use a Rare Candy on it and BOOM!

Plus, if your Pokémon already had some happiness, it'd be a bit difficult to get it back down to 0. You'd have to make it faint and give it an awful lot of herbs.

Wrong. =)

Each Pokemon has a preset Happiness Value, none of which are that low.
Only some legendaries start low enough that they actually DISlike you when you catch them.

And as far as leveling them to hate you? Not too difficult.
Have them faint all the time, give them status conditions and never heal them,
use herbs instead of Potions and Status Healers, that kinda stuff.

Yes that is brilliant...now only if they would just do it already, maybe Primeape's evolution or a new family basic pokemon's evolution can have this requirement, I like it already Togakapi...

personally, i disagree with this idea, as it would encourage kids to be meaner to animals (okay, maybe not, but if they do this, i'll never get that poke). and some pokes do come with zero happiness (mewtwo, for instance), so..... but i agree with spoinkable in that it wouldn't be too difficult to do....

As for low-happiness evolutions, I don't see why they should not be included.

However, there will NOT be a Pokémon WHICH EVOLVES BY EV POINTS. My reasoning is that new players will come to the games. All of the current principles of evolution are easily comprehensible to new players (level, stone, trade with item, location, level-up with move, happiness with ratings in each region...). EVs are complicated. They are not easily accessible statistics in-game. They are relatively unimportant to new players, seeing that they would be grasping principles such as level, experience, and evolution. Plus, each Pokémon battled yields different EVs, so large charts may be necessary to some players to find accessible EV training. New players trying to fill the Pokédex would be overwhelmed by this principle, and it should not be used.

1. Low-happiness evolutions would suck ass, as it would make you hurt your pokemon. What's next, steeling pokemon? going down the bike path w/o a bike? THE HORROR!
2. That said, I could see a pokemon that DE-EVOLVES if it gets max unhappy, and evolves if it is max happpy. This pokemon should be available in it's first form throughout the game, and it's 3rd form should resemble it's first form (thus if it's de-evolving you can't tell if it's evolving or de-evolving), and there should be no reason to de-evolve it (it's de-evolved form should learn moves slower than it's advanced form, it should learn less moves than it's evolved form, and have much worse stats).
3. Actually, I see no reason why there can't be a pokemon that evolves by Evs. Feebas's evolution in HG/SS is cryptic, I see no reason why it can't be the case that when X is at level 30, if Y is it's highest EV stat or tied, it becomes A, and if ~Y is it's highest EV stat, it becomes B.

That said, I am a strong advocate of an "EV garden" where you have routes which offer low-level EV training for your pokemon - indeed, relatively early in the game.

All they need to do is make tracking EV's easier in-game. It would be fantastic if it just showed up as another status page onyour Pokémon's individual information.

Edit: And now that I think about it, it would open up new players to making good Pokémon. I had no idea what EV's were until about a month before the HGSS release and I've been playing every game since Red, Blue and Yellow.

I think this is a mistake. EVs should be the secret to pokemon, but they shouldn't be something you just look up.
I think the effort ribbon, and the IV (related) Judge are good ways of going about learning about IVs/EVs in game. However, I do think the following features should be expanded upon:

1. Complete EV wiper - reduces all EVs to 0 of any pokemon with a level less than 100. This, I think, is ESSENTIAL as it allows new players to EV train their favorite pokemon.
2. EV Hotspot "EV Garden", with 6 routes w/ different small level guys that all give 1 EV of the same type. This would be the ultimate EV hotspot, and would really help new players and experienced players alike - especially if the compete EV wiper is nearby. I imagine this just outside the main city of the game.
3. EV + Experience giving mini-games. Long story short, fun + useful

1. Low-happiness evolutions are not unethical. What if you gave your pokémon healing herbs? Plus, if you think that obtaining low happiness values is unethical, what about Fighting-type Pokémon? Why have kicking and punching Pokémon? Why is this any less unethical? Also, IT'S JUST A GAME. POKÉMON ARE NOT REAL. And why does de-evolution make it more ethical (especially if you still needed the first stage in your Pokédex)?
2. EVs are not clearly comprehensible to the player. I learned about them just to join discussions about them on this site. Feebas's evolution in HG/SS is no less cryptic than Magneton's or Nosepass's. It's not available there. Not many players know about EVs, and even fewer players care. Why base an evolution on it? Why make the process even more complicated?

This.

haha you make pokemon sound so sexual but yeah i do agree

Idea for an EV garden:

A place where you can "store" Pokemon that get revived once every set time period. For example, you could stock up trainers or areas with Pokemon you've caught and go battle them. That way you have a custom EV/Experience training zone that you can populate yourself.

Phwee! THAT took a while to read through...
Lots of ideas/rants to come. Also, I will try to clear up some misunderstandings/concepts about Pokemon that I noticed in these posts.
Also, this isn't really in any order... I kinda bounced back and forth, editing here, adding there. oh well.

WOW! I really like some of the ideas floating in here! >_<
(Dislike some though... and others are just plainly rediculous because of hardware/software limitations/upgrades or even the very basis of the game.)

Keep in mind that Pokemon are based on real creatures (Such as Piplup), myth (Such as Bronzor/Bronzong), and such. There are a number of things that make absolutely no sense, because there is no real-world-sourced concept that could support it.
I invite EVERYONE to read the "On the origin of the Species" column on Bulbapedia. You will learn a LOT of awesome things about what I mean!
http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Category:On_the_Origin_of_Species
This is updated once a week! SO COOL TO READ!!!

OH! How about some Pokemon get a NEW STAGE OF EVOLUTION!? Not including PRE-evolution, have Basic, Stage 1, Stage 2, and now a Stage 3! >_< (but only for a very few, like... Porygon! I like Porygon! He's data, keeps growing!) But, the only way to trigger these higher stages is via a special method of some sort. (I like the idea of adding some Light-type Evolutions this way... they are the most pure-hearted forms, but also much stronger! Like... Angelic Gardevoir! >_< I mention this later as well.)

No, I have to disagree with the thought of Pokemon being "about" breaking traditions. (Or however it's worded). BUT it IS an ever-expanding WORLD, and so WILL have changes. Some, some people will like. Others, not so much. Some people don't like Chimchar on the mere basis that "it isn't one of the original 151 Pokemon". Bah.
Just like there are new Pokemon, there ARE going to be new ways for them to Evolve/Transform/(whatever comes next). Games change. (They don't seem to dislike Mario getting new abilities for some reason... Oh yeah! Pokemon had major help in creation from the guy who MADE Mario! Hence the names Satoshi and Shigeru in the anime. Trivia!)

IV-Evolution makes no sense. Sorry. It's like saying you evolved because you had a talent. The CLOSEST to this is Tyrogue's evolution method. (Feebas is not like this. It's based on it's "appearance", it being absolutely beautiful.) IV's can be bred over, like talents from your parents. (It's true. Just not always, both in reality and Pokemon). So, it can't be used as a basis for anything other than stats anymore.
Speaking of which, that's also why it makes no sense to have an IV Stat Page or something like that. It's SUPPOSED to be like the "hidden talent" of your Pokemon. Also, if you think about it, that's probably why the only IV-related attack is called "Hidden Power". GEE, I WONDER WHY?

I disagree with Hate-evolution. Totally against the over-all feel of Pokemon, the good beats evil feel. This, I believe, would start a tear at the very moral basis of Pokemon. Or, I could just be paranoid, or something.
The inherint goodness in Pokemon has been one of the major factors that I still love these amazing creatures! Don't take that away from me! T_T And it would be WAY overly-time consuming for me, since I don't care to mistreat my Pokemon just to fill my Dex. (not that I really care about filling my Dex in the first place, past using for the GTS and seeing cool entries. Dex should also show Shiny Forms that you've seen, even if not caught)

I would LOVE an Unrare Candy (Something like that) that causes a LOSS of one level per use.
I would also LOVE a DE-evolving item. Perfect for choosing a different evolutionary path of split-evolvers.
Also, if you wanted to re-evolve, you'd still have to do it like normal.
The main purpose for this is for things like... I have a LV. 100 Magikarp (Caught via Fishing in Platinum), but decide that I want to evolve it to Gyarados. Currently: Tough luck. Get a new one. See? Wouldn't it be nice?
Could also have the effect that you lose any evo-path-specific attacks upon de-evolving. (This would NOT apply to the Unrare Candy, though. You keep your attacks. You just might run across re-learning some is all.)
This would be rather nice for getting a new alternate Evolution of something that you already have evolved in a previous game and trained a lot. Instead of redoing all that work, just de-evolve and evolve to the other!
Also, this would make it easier to have some better movesets, like how Eevee has Trump Card (Wasn't that it?) but it learns is at such a high level that you've missed some good attacks on each evolution! This way, you could get what you really are aiming for!

I want a LIGHT Type! (Weak to Normal, Immune to Dark/Ghost, Super-effective to Dark/Ghost. Something like that.)
I want a Light-type Eevee. (Sorry Labarith. ^_^ )
I want a Light-type Legendary. (I was hoping the Duo would be Dragon/Light and Dragon/Dark)
I want the Uber Legendary to be Light/Dark. It is the very imbodiment of CHAOS! The only possible Pokemon to be even of higher tier in existance than Arceus! >_<
(Sorry, got off-track there)
Also, other Light-type Pokemon/Evolutions. OH! And they only can be obtained by taking them to a... Light Shrine and upon searching it, their purity reaches new heights and they evolve! >_<
I WANT THIS: Gardevoir Evolution: ANGELIC Pokemon. Psychic/Light. Essentially looks like Gardevoir, but with angel wings, has Levitate, and either Trace or Synchronize. MUCH higher Defence, and even stronger Special Attack...
Speaking of which: DUAL ABILITIES! >_< But only SOME have them! (Or, they also can have their alternate ability at the same time.
ALSO: SWITCHING between their abilities!

Weather Evolutions! Cool! But, I'd think it should NOT be via a weather-control device. Just set weather in areas, like before has been. Though, maybe sometimes a weather isn't active, and if you use the attack/Ability to trigger it there (in a battle), instead of turning off after, it keeps going, even in the field!

Hmm, I don't think that Castform should evolve outside of it's 3 transformations... BUT it would essentially become a first-class Pokemon of that type, as well as gaining the Ability to trigger that weather! >_< Kinda like a pseudo Kyoge/Groudon...
Uses the Weather-extending items, the matching Weather, and some third trigger, all at once... (SO keep Weather Ball! Imagine how powerful it would be THEN! O_O It'd be like Judgement!)

In-Battle Evolution being available... SURE! It'd be nice to see that happen and save your butt in the E-4! >_<
Also, It COULD NOT POSSIBLY affect tournaments, because... YOU CAN'T GAIN EXP. OR USE ITEMS IN TOURNAMENTS! So, NOTHING could evolve. Go figure!

The Museum/Library: YES!
I like restricting the time to get your Fossil revived! I don't CARE about getting the "Perfect IV-Fossil". (Won't win you any tourneys anyway, so why worry so much?) I fully support waiting.
I like the rocks being on display. However, I think that instead of having to use Rare Candies, it should be changed to that you search it with them in from of your party, and they will enter evolution, keeping their Level and Exp. as well.
Though, this WOULD finally give Rare Candy an actual use... (Personally, I rate Rare Candy as the MOST UNNEEDED item in the game, other than the Masterball. This is because I just don't use any of those shortcuts. Call it.s.. bragging right or whatever you want.)
The (fairly obvious) problem with having the rocks just sitting outside, not on display or whatever, is HOW THE HECK DID THEY GET THERE?? The Deoxys-Meteorites hit from space so it's perfectly logical that Game Freak can have them "hit" wherever they so please, and thus make them available. However, this can NOT apply to the Ice/Moss Rocks, nor the Mountain locations. The wind just isn't gonna manage that, AND what would keep the Moss Rock mossy, and the Ice Rock icy? At least one of them would clash with the climate and be impossilbly placed.
I LOVE the idea of the Museum/Library having statues/books with small bits of info on Legendary Pokemon so they can be traded on GTS. I have to say, I like the Statues, because... you could SEE the statue of them! So cool! (I was SO EXCITED when I saw the Dialga/Palkia Statue in Diamond for the first time... >_<) With the system getting better and better, it wouldn't be any surprise to see this happen thanks to the better graphics (5x5 pixel statues are long-gone. Didn't you play any Pokemon since GBA? Or just don't pay attention.)

Game Mechanics of the hardware make Seasons TOTALLY acceptable; EVEN having Pokemon available for only X-many months. JUST CHANGE THE CLOCK ON YOUR SYSTEM!!! The games WILL NOT use an externally-controlled Time/Date system. So it doesn't MATTER how they do it; you could still cheat the system if it bugged you. Oh yeah the same would apply to the Fossil Pokemon and Incubator Pokemon, unless they set up a system that also tracks real-time passage, regardless of in-game time... that would be VERY effecient! Then you could still "jump" between seasons, but still have to wait for Fossils and such... ooh! I like it! ^_^

Speaking of which: In G/S/C/R/S/E there was Clock. In R/B/G/Y/LG/FR there was not. So, clock-based stuff couldn't possibly apply there. However, Friendship has no relation to the clock at all, as it's a different hidden-stat, kind of like EV's. So, if you got yourself a Togepi at ANY given point of FR/LG, then it would still be able to evolve.

Incubator: I LOVE IT! It'd be wonderful of use for those of us that love these games, but don't have lots of spare time to just play. I don't much care one way or the other if there is any special benefit to using it (Especially since it would be the easier if sometimes more time-consuming method)
-I totally disagree with carrying a hatching-thingie. Not only does it sound wierd, WHERE would you wear it, and where would the air-conditioner be to keep you cooled off? Yeah, the pack is already practically a Tardis-field stucture, but come on; we can't just add bulky stuff because it could make things easier.


After reading these posts, I REALLY have to wonder how many of you really know much about game mechanics... in ANY games! If at all! ugh. (I KNOW that a number of you DO understand the game mechanics, make no mistake. But SOME people make it painfully clear that they have no idea at all.)

On/off-topic junkies seem to be way overly self-concious and can't handle feeling they've lost an argument. (especially if it's as pointless as an on/off-topic argument) And sound very annoying. (Or would, if I had to actually HEAR they're comments. I dread when the Internet standard is to use voice recordings...) Yes, I believe staying on-topic is important, but a little conversation never killed anyone, and is likely to help keep things lively. If it goes on too long (say, at LEAST 6 posts in a row) THEN start screaming your "OFF TOPIC!!! OFF TOPIC!!! HE'S OFF TOPIC SIRE!!! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!! INSULT HIM TO DEATH!!! FLOOD THE BOARD SO EVERYONE CAN SEE HE WAS OFF TOPIC!!!". Sheesh. I hate hearing those stupid rantings after just a couple posts that don't mention the topic. What a waste.
Mods: I DO appreciate you! Without you guys places like this would turn to hate wars in a flash, no doubt.


Yeah, I rant. Sorry, it's how I am. I do hope that I cleared up a few misunderstandings about certain things (Such as clock-based things and such).
Also, I won't be alerted to updates here, so don't waste your time insulting me or trying to make a point to me. Please.

OFF-TOPIC!!! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!! no, that's not how anyone (or most people) are on this forum, imo....
some of your points are legitimate, others not so much (imo). but that's the beauty of a forum/thread like this: we can express our opinions. and game mechanics can change (i'll admit that i don't understand or care about some of them, but you don't need to in order to enjoy the game).

so, to keep my head on, i would like new stones for evolution (dusk, fire, thunder, etc.). the only problem is the fact that these are often pretty rare....and how many more do we really need?? hmmm, or maybe a pokemon that if hatched from an egg, it has an alternate evo (catch a certain pokemon, and when it has an egg, the resulting offspring will evolve in an alternate way). or something like that.

^_^ I like Rex a bit more now!

Hmm, new evo-Stones... the only problem I see with more stone evolutions (Or even stone evolution in the first place) is that it's WAY too easy, no training/work needed. And even with how rare they are, it's now so easy to just ask someone to trade an extra or something...
Still, I agree that it would be nice for some! Actually, I've been wanting a bit more use for the original stones. Maybe even a non-evolutionary use for the various stones?

Hm, maybe making it so some have to hold the Stones to be able to trigger the evolution? Or, they hold a Stone (or maybe a Plate instead for better choices), and then you use a different one on them to get a dual-type from the Stones? Oooh... maybe THAT could make for some possibility of in-game created Pokemon? (Just control it's types for evolution, and then it's moveset is determined by that?) Ah! That could be Ditto's evolution! Hmm.. or maybe not... @_@

I've been spending A LOT of energy not laughing at your ummmm lack of intelligence. they should make a museum with a trainer next to each exhibit so you can level up. Duh.