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 Celebi and the three Legendary dogs 
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{celebi} Celebi is something I hadn't heard discussed yet and I would like to hear some input on it like whether it will be obtainable for capture directly or will there be yet another Nintendo event for it. Personally I never am anywhere near where those take place so I hope it will be obtainable by direct means. I also guess it would be worth hearing concerns for other legendaries like Suicune {suicune} , Entei {entei} , and Raikou {raikou} .

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Wed May 27, 2009 10:36 am
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The dogs will probably be wandering like in original Gold and Silver. Celebi will probably need an event item, ala skymin and rotom formes.

But that's just a guess.
We won't know for a little i guess.

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Wed May 27, 2009 12:51 pm
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There's about a 110% chance that all three legendary dogs will be in GHSS while Celebi will not be in GHSS. Seriously.


Wed May 27, 2009 12:53 pm
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Regardless Frost, are these people not allowed express their opinions and concerns on the matter? Why all the angst?

A fellow designer heard from a reliable source that they are considering adding in the original Celebi plotline, i.e. the one that was cut from the original US and UK versions. It was a pretty basic plotline and would fit well in a game that didn't really have much story.

Personally I thought if they added in some form of island region to the game where you pick up the GS ball for Oak and go through the process like in the anime that it would be cool. Alas that is no more than wishful thinking.

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Wed May 27, 2009 1:52 pm
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GodlessM wrote:
A fellow designer heard from a reliable source that they are considering adding in the original Celebi plotline, i.e. the one that was cut from the original US and UK versions. It was a pretty basic plotline and would fit well in a game that didn't really have much story.


That would be awesome, even if it is just a small story. I never really have the time or the means to go to the Nintendo events, so I always miss out on special Pokemon. A way to obtain Celebi in game would give me yet another reason to be happy about the remake.

I'd like to think that they'd keep the legendary dogs the same, though. They kept the birds the same in FR/LG (well, 2 out of 3 birds anyway), so I'm sure the dogs will still roam.

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Wed May 27, 2009 2:34 pm
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GodlessM wrote:
Regardless Frost, are these people not allowed express their opinions and concerns on the matter? Why all the angst?


Fine, people can feel free to express their (wrong) opinions about how they think Celebi will in GHSS. And I think everybody HOPES that they'll stick a Pokemon in the game, rather than holding an event to get it, but that has never been Nintendo nor Gamefreak's M.O. since day one.

GameFreak is formulaic and tends to follow patterns. So ask yourself, without events (or buying other games or whatever), ...
...was Mew in GRBYFRLG? No, unless you exploited unintentional glitches in the game's code.
...was Celebi in GSC? No. Even in Japan, the GS Ball in Crystal was an event item.
...were Jirachi or Deoxys in RSE? No.
...were Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin or Arceus in DPP? No.
...will Celebi in HGSS? NO.

At best, Celebi will be a Wi-Fi triggered event like the item for the Rotom forms or like the GS Ball was in Japanese Crystal. At worst, it'll be another standard event Pokemon where you have to go to Gamestop or Toys R Us or wherever. If you guys want a topic where everybody repeats the incredibly obvious "I hope Celebi is in GHSS!" sentiment, only to go "Damn, they didn't put Celebi in GHSS!" after it's released, feel free I guess. I think it's pretty redundant myself.

I also recommend you look up the word "angst" before you say I'm being angsty. Unless by "angsty," you really meant "realistic."


Wed May 27, 2009 4:31 pm
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Frost wrote:
GodlessM wrote:
Regardless Frost, are these people not allowed express their opinions and concerns on the matter? Why all the angst?


Fine, people can feel free to express their (wrong) opinions about how they think Celebi will in GHSS. And I think everybody HOPES that they'll stick a Pokemon in the game, rather than holding an event to get it, but that has never been Nintendo nor Gamefreak's M.O. since day one.

GameFreak is formulaic and tends to follow patterns. So ask yourself, without events (or buying other games or whatever), ...
...was Mew in GRBYFRLG? No, unless you exploited unintentional glitches in the game's code.
...was Celebi in GSC? No. Even in Japan, the GS Ball in Crystal was an event item.
...were Jirachi or Deoxys in RSE? No.
...were Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin or Arceus in DPP? No.
...will Celebi in HGSS? NO.

At best, Celebi will be a Wi-Fi triggered event like the item for the Rotom forms or like the GS Ball was in Japanese Crystal. At worst, it'll be another standard event Pokemon where you have to go to Gamestop or Toys R Us or wherever. If you guys want a topic where everybody repeats the incredibly obvious "I hope Celebi is in GHSS!" sentiment, only to go "Damn, they didn't put Celebi in GHSS!" after it's released, feel free I guess. I think it's pretty redundant myself.

I also recommend you look up the word "angst" before you say I'm being angsty. Unless by "angsty," you really meant "realistic."

I totally agree with this. Why wouldn't they try to get you to gamestop or toyr r' us?
you're going to go. and shut up, you know you are. Oh and while there, maybe you'll purchase some new nintendo software or accessories?
It's the perfect plan, get over it.


Wed May 27, 2009 4:44 pm
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I have to say I do hope, and Nintendo has let me down countless times (why in the world I keep trusting them to do something worth while I do not know). The main reason I want Celibi to be a non event Pokemon is my local gamestop is poorly run and don't do the events. The next closest is in the county over and I don't like driving that far. That and the last time I was any where near a Toys R Us I lived 7 states over. I understand the reasons for Frost's annoyance with the statements being that some of this he has addressed and I had accidentally skipped over it and for this I apologize, but I think that it would still be good to hear some concerns for pokemon other than Ho-oh and Lugia.

-please excuse me if this doesn't make much sence in the order its written, my ADD is acting worse than usual-

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Wed May 27, 2009 8:35 pm
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Quote:
Fine, people can feel free to express their (wrong) opinions about how they think Celebi will in GHSS.


Not a very good attitude for a mod to be having is it? You can't tell people they are wrong because they are in your opinion. Did ye set this forum up for people to discuss the games and their opinions or for mods to show how they know better than everybody else? I'm not trying to get in your face or be cheeky but I am a moderator on an internet forum myself and as such know that mods over all others should have respect for members and their opinions, and I have seen very little of it on this site as of yet.

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...was Celebi in GSC? No. Even in Japan, the GS Ball in Crystal was an event item.


On topic, this information is incorrect. In the Japanese G/S/C once one had gotten 16 badges and beaten read Prof. Oak gave them a GS ball. The player then brought this to Kurt who gave it back to the player after a day. The player then put the ball in the Ilex Shrine and a lvl30 Celebi appeared to be caught.

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Thu May 28, 2009 7:58 am
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In that case my cousin lied; she said Mew came out of the GS ball. *grumble*

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Thu May 28, 2009 10:12 am
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GodlessM wrote:
Not a very good attitude for a mod to be having is it? You can't tell people they are wrong because they are in your opinion. Did ye set this forum up for people to discuss the games and their opinions or for mods to show how they know better than everybody else? I'm not trying to get in your face or be cheeky but I am a moderator on an internet forum myself and as such know that mods over all others should have respect for members and their opinions, and I have seen very little of it on this site as of yet.


*sigh*

Look, man, there's a big difference between sharing an opinion like "Spiritomb is my favorite Pokemon" and an "opinion" (note the quotation marks) like "Celebi will be in GHSS." I wouldn't say somebody is wrong to say his or her favorite Pokemon is Spiritomb, even though it's my least favorite Pokemon, because things such as favoritism are subjective rather than based on facts. But, on the other hand, it's fairly safe to say that Celebi will not be in GHSS because A) Nintendo likes holding Events; B) not a single Pokemon that was first given through Events (including Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Shaymin, Manaphy, Deoxys, Darkrai and Arceus) has ever been given through normal methods in the video games. That's an objective look at the facts, and there's a hell of a lot more weight behind me saying Celebi will not be GHSS because it's based on facts, whereas somebody sharing the "opinion" of "I think Celebi will obtainable in GHSS without a Nintendo Event" is, frankly, wishful thinking that is never going to happen.


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On topic, this information is incorrect. In the Japanese G/S/C once one had gotten 16 badges and beaten read Prof. Oak gave them a GS ball. The player then brought this to Kurt who gave it back to the player after a day. The player then put the ball in the Ilex Shrine and a lvl30 Celebi appeared to be caught.


First of all, your information is incorrect. For one thing, the GS Ball didn't even exist in Gold and Silver. And tons of people played Japanese Crystal and they didn't get a Celebi just for beating Red. That's because:

Bulbapedia wrote:
In Pokémon Crystal

In the Japanese version of Pokémon Crystal, players could use the Pokémon Mobile System to obtain a GS Ball as an event item which they could take to Ilex Forest. Using it at the forest's shrine would prompt an encounter where a wild Celebi could be captured. However, no equivalent event was ever offered to players of the English version of the game. Some game-enhancing devices, however, such as the GameShark, can be used to generate the GS Ball right in the player's bag in both languages.


Several sites back this up, whereas I've never heard of your claim that you only need the badges and to beat Red.


Thu May 28, 2009 11:15 am
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I don't think he'll be in the game. If he is, he'll be a Deoxys/Mew/Arceus/Darkrai/Shaymin type of deal ONLY - do you guys really think Nintendo is going to include CELEBI in the new games? Since when did they make the rest of the 100 base stat Pokemon that easy to get?

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Thu May 28, 2009 12:51 pm
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Two things then Frost:

1) Your rational is understandable and makes sense, however nobody has claimed that Celebi WILL be in the game for a fact, they have just asked people whether they think it will and should.

2) Just because sites say doesn't make it the truth. But if you must go with the sites, a lot of them will tell you that Celebi was available normally on the Japanese version of G/S, and I myself can confirm that since I had a copy on import back when they came out.

Anyway, that aside, we are indeed getting slightly off topic.

I'm out.

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Thu May 28, 2009 1:59 pm
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Electra wrote:
I don't think he'll be in the game. If he is, he'll be a Deoxys/Mew/Arceus/Darkrai/Shaymin type of deal ONLY - do you guys really think Nintendo is going to include CELEBI in the new games? Since when did they make the rest of the 100 base stat Pokemon that easy to get?


You're 100% right, as is Frost. Also, in one of the pre-released images, it looked like the Pikachu-colored-Pichu was standing in front of the shrine with the trainer and something was happening. I think it's possible that this odd Pichu might have something to do with the event.

Also, the dogs will most certainly be in the game as the usual runners after releasing them from Burned(?) Tower.

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Thu May 28, 2009 2:43 pm
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Quote:
1) Your rational is understandable and makes sense, however nobody has claimed that Celebi WILL be in the game for a fact, they have just asked people whether they think it will and should.


Thank you Godless M I think it needed to be said I did not intend for this to be an argument or a debate I just wanted a discussion on these particular Pokemon. I think there has been enough arguing the fact is the game will be released I just wanted to hear concerns about things other than the main game play so if the arguing continues I will just ask one of the admins of the site lock the subject from further. In the mean time feel free to voice any opinions of what you hope Game freak and Nintendo will do with games.

-and yes Frost most of these will be unlikely to happen but it still gives everyone something to think about.

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Thu May 28, 2009 5:14 pm
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I agree with Frost, yet I do feel that he does not need to explain the obvious, it just doesn't look good, plus it's not really helping his image the way he said it, so I agree with GodlessM in that way. As for the events, I don't care how it will be released because I have like 7 game stops and 2 big toys r us' where I live so it really doesn't matter. As for the people who won't be able to get it, I just hope they can feel better about the fact at least a lot of events are going to be redone online(I'm making this assumption because the US has been doing the same thing as Japan recently).

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Fri May 29, 2009 5:01 pm
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GodlessM wrote:
2) Just because sites say doesn't make it the truth. But if you must go with the sites, a lot of them will tell you that Celebi was available normally on the Japanese version of G/S, and I myself can confirm that since I had a copy on import back when they came out.


And I can confirm you're wrong, because I've hacked the Japanese ROM of G/S and there is no trace of the Celebi event or GS Ball. :) If I didn't, I'd still take Bulbapedia's word over it than yours, you keep spouting untrue stuff yet give no creditable proof of it.

You people keep attacking Frost, why? He's stating facts, not stating ridiculous crap like everyone else is. He's also being NICE when he corrects people. I don't see how this "isn't helping his image."

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Fri May 29, 2009 5:24 pm
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Electra wrote:
GodlessM wrote:
2) Just because sites say doesn't make it the truth. But if you must go with the sites, a lot of them will tell you that Celebi was available normally on the Japanese version of G/S, and I myself can confirm that since I had a copy on import back when they came out.


And I can confirm you're wrong, because I've hacked the Japanese ROM of G/S and there is no trace of the Celebi event or GS Ball. :) If I didn't, I'd still take Bulbapedia's word over it than yours, you keep spouting untrue stuff yet give no creditable proof of it.

You people keep attacking Frost, why? He's stating facts, not stating ridiculous crap like everyone else is. He's also being NICE when he corrects people. I don't see how this "isn't helping his image."


Of course having an actual original copy of the game isn't credible proof. Silly me...

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Fri May 29, 2009 7:44 pm
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Electra wrote:
GodlessM wrote:
2) Just because sites say doesn't make it the truth. But if you must go with the sites, a lot of them will tell you that Celebi was available normally on the Japanese version of G/S, and I myself can confirm that since I had a copy on import back when they came out.


And I can confirm you're wrong, because I've hacked the Japanese ROM of G/S and there is no trace of the Celebi event or GS Ball. :) If I didn't, I'd still take Bulbapedia's word over it than yours, you keep spouting untrue stuff yet give no creditable proof of it.

You people keep attacking Frost, why? He's stating facts, not stating ridiculous crap like everyone else is. He's also being NICE when he corrects people. I don't see how this "isn't helping his image."


I am not an expert on nice, but Frost is most certainly not being nice. Not that he needs to, he is entitled to his own opinions just as everyone else is.

That being said if somebody wants to believe that nintendo is going to change its ways and actually include celebi in some way through hg/ss it is their opinion and they should be able to hold it.

Just as we common members are not allowed to get after Frost for not being excited about this game, I believe that Frost should just bite the bullet here and instead of raining on everybody's parade maybe think about avoiding this discussion if he feels the need to be negative about this.

As a disclaimer this is not a rant or an attack on Frost. Looking at the site its pretty nice that the administration is actually active in the community unlike many other forums I have been to. If this post for whatever reason offends Frost I am sure it is well within his power to delete it.

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Fri May 29, 2009 8:17 pm
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Ohhhh so pointing out obvious logic is being negative and mean.

Thanks for clearing that up flaming_fox! :)

And Goddess M, I'm gonna have to call bull **** on your post. There is no G/S Ball in Gold and Silver and you can't back up your claim.

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Sat May 30, 2009 12:29 am
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Godless M, screenshots would help your case immensely here. As for the whole Frost thing, um, calling someone on their "opinion" isn't being rude. Everyone assumes that just because you say "it's my opinion" then OH NO everyone has to ***** foot around the subject for all eternity.

What if I said it was my opinion that anyone who didn't live in Idaho was an evil, fascist dictator-type willing to murder their own family for exactly $4.
BUT WAIT, you can't even try to argue with me about it because it's my opinion! HAHAHA

Arguing and bringing up logical and factual points that lead to a different conclusion than some people's random and totally baseless opinions is not being rude, it's being logical and at the same time expressing Frost's opinion of all those other opinions.

Seriously. Frost has called ME on some things as well, might even call me on this, but am I going to cry and whine and call him an ass for pointing out something to me? No. I'll either back up my statement if I can, and if I can't, then it's most likely true that Frost is correct. As he is in this instance.

P.S. The second paragraph IS indeed hypothetical, just for clarity's sake.

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Sat May 30, 2009 7:18 pm
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Frost isn't being negative as in bringing others down, he is being negative as in pessimistic about this.

I know that FR/LG weren't the best remakes that they could be, but that doesn't mean that HG/SS are destined to be mediocre. As likely as it may be its not guaranteed. I think just about everybody gets that Frost does not think they will be anything special. I can't speak for others but I for one (I am very excited for this game) am just as sick of Frost raining on the parade as he probably was when people started hating on him when he first revealed he wasn't thrilled with the idea.

At any rate the HG/SS forum is for people who are excited about this game. Thus if you are not excited about the thought of these remakes then this probably is not a place for you.

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Sat May 30, 2009 7:23 pm
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Dear God why I am even Trying
:frustrated:

I would prefer we get off the topic of Godless M and Frost's argument. I understand that there is a lot of contriversy between there points but please try making comments of your opionions of what you hope will be done about the other legendaries not what The GS ball was for or if it existed in the old games.

opinion
Personally my hope is that they add back in the side story to Celibi, and the Three legendary dogs are still roaming about after your encounter with them in the burnt tower. I am not sure though what my opinion will be on the Red Gyarados being that I enjoy the challenge of finding and catcthingshinings and having one given to you takes the fun out of it.

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Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm
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Celebi won't be it it. There has to be at least one new event for the games, right? I live a few minutes away from a Game Stop and TRU, so I don't really care either way.

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Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:30 am
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Chances are that they'll have an event on WiFI with the GS Ball as they have similarly done with the Platinum items.


Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:19 am
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