Frost's Rankings: The Cast of Super Smash Bros. (Complete)
Page 2 of 3

Author:  Krisp [ Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-39 done!

I've been sitting here thinking which character will be #1, and I've decided which one, lets see if I'm right. :O

I don't care for the Link clones either, actually I have a very similar opinion on The Legend of Zelda series. I probably like LoZ more than Frost because of the Oracle games, but other than that, pfft. Honestly I would have preferred to have Young Link playable from the beginning instead of adult Link, but whatever, I guess age isn't that big of a deal, only one of them should have a spot in Smash Bros. In the Smash Bros. series, I'd rank all of the LoZ characters pretty low, I guess I'd say Sheik > Young Link > Adult Link > Ganondorf > Zelda > Toon Link (what a joke Toon Link is).

I disagree with your placement for Marth though, I think he's pretty rad. Feminine men are hot. Pichu rocks and I'd rank him on my top 10 for sure, I don't really care if he's a gimmicky character. :( Also, Captain Dickhead doesn't really belong at the bottom in my opinion.

Oh and for the record I have never played Fire Emblem, from what I've seen of it it looks a lot like Shining Force though, with the grind thing.

Author:  GofD [ Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-39 done!

Krisp wrote:
Oh and for the record I have never played Fire Emblem, from what I've seen of it it looks a lot like Shining Force though, with the grind thing.

Ive played both fire emblem (somethin something) for GBA and shining force (2) for PC and yeah there sorta alike.

As for ranking the Super smash cast- MEH, im more into crushin my oppents with a massive army and ACU... back on topic, im thinkin either mario or luigi will be crowned #1.

Author:  Frost [ Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-39 do

I am fully prepared for everybody to rage over this post. Especially Legend of Zelda fans.

38. Link
Game(s): Vanilla, Melee and Brawl; Tier: 11th out of 12; 16th out of 25; 36th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: Based on the internet's reception, Link is quite possibly the most overrated video game character ever. EVER. He is intentionally designed to be a mute protagonist with no backstory, yet he has a batshit crazy fanbase who insists that he is the best video game character ever created. WHAT? He's just a bland elf with a sword and a shield. He rarely, if ever, has dialogue and I am told from a Zelda fan that Ocarina of Time gave him the MOST backstory of any Zelda game, i.e. NONE. Thus, there's nothing to like or hate about him either way. (Well, actually, I hate his fanbase and I'm sure a lot of people are pissed that I've already eliminated Link, but oh well. At least Mario has personality traits!) Link's most notable and probably ONLY character trait is Courage, which is his section of the Triforce. However, his cartoon form did spawn a hilarious meme for which I grant some extra credit: "Well, excuuuuuse me, princess!"

What do I think of this character in Smash?: I honestly just use Link as a punching bag most of the time. And it's amazing to me that a character who is consistently low or bottom tier can continue to be so popular. And don't act like Link isn't popular just because people don't use him in competitive tournaments, as way more casual fans play Smash than tournament-goers. I'm also glad that the "main" version of Link in the Smash Bros. series is his adult form from Ocarina of Time, even though apparently most of Legend of Zelda games do not star an adult Link.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Smash Link is pretty faithful to Legend of Zelda's Link. His special moves incorporate many of his weapons from his original games, including his shield, bombs and boomerang. He has his voice and general appearance from the second half of Ocarina of Time. Link is a pretty important character, so it's natural that time was taken to ensure his Smash form was authentic to the original.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Even though I find Link to be a non-descript bore with an annoying fanbase, I am not delusional enough to try to claim Link doesn't deserve to be in Smash. The Legend of Zelda is one of Nintendo's "big three" franchises, along with Mario and Pokemon, so the inclusion of that series' protagonist in a game for "Nintendo's All-Stars" is a no-brainer.

Overall Rating: C-. Link would probably be a completely average C because he's just that boring and does little on his own to rattle my chain either way. But I took off some points for his crazy fans and the fact that's never been particularly great in the Smash series.

37. Sheik
Game(s): Melee, Brawl; Tier: 4th out of 25; 26th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: Sheik was the secret identity of Zelda in Ocarina of Time. I never finished the game so I don't know how that panned out or why Zelda felt the need to disguise herself to Link... maybe she was afraid of Ganondorf? Either way, the fact that Zelda is a woman and Sheik was always referred to as a male character is one of those infamous moments in video game history that led to all sorts of stupid questions like "Does Zelda's genitalia change too when she morphs into Sheik?" I suppose it was kind of an interesting idea even though it doesn't make much sense.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: On paper, Zelda/Sheik should be a perfect character. In practice, the only one who got any use was Sheik due to hir blinding speed. It doesn't really sit well with me that Zelda's "male" alter ego is so much more useful in Melee, but I doubt that was an intentional design... even though Zelda was once again inferior to Sheik in Brawl. Either way Sheik doesn't have a lot of personality in Smash and hir fighting style feels pretty clunky to me, so I usually stick to Zelda if I pick the character.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: I had to consult with my friend Rhapsody on this one. Apparently Sheik does have a "Vanish" move but it's only done using Deku nuts. And he does "transform" into Zelda but not in the way that it happens in Smash. Nobody in Ocarina of Time uses needles or a chain, apparently, so I guess it's another case like Captain Falcon where they made up moves on the fly. Whatever, the new moves are pretty memorable, even if Sheik has a bad habit of running at a ninety degree angle.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Ocarina was a big hit a couple of years before Melee was released, and having two forms of Zelda definitely trumps adding a child version of Link. So, yes, Sheik does a good job of giving the Zelda series more representation without adding more clones. Although it does make me wonder why Sheik was deemed acceptable for Melee but Tetra wasn't for Brawl.

Overall Rating: C-. Sheik is a pretty interesting idea for a character in Smash thanks to the ability to transform between him and Zelda. But overall he's a pretty generic ninja-based design and his fighting style doesn't do very much for me.

36. Mr. Game and Watch
Game(s): Melee, Brawl; 21st out of 25; 11th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: Mr. Game and Watch was the "star" of the Game and Watch series, which were several unrelated games released on Nintendo's handheld "Game and Watch" systems. Gunpei Yokoi created these devices in 1979, which predated even the creation of Donkey Kong and Mario in 1981, making them Nintendo's first true video games. The "character" doesn't really have a backstory, nor is he ever depicted as anything more than a basic outline.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: Mr. Game and Watch was Melee's oddball nostalgic choice, but he was a lot of fun. His voice consists solely of bleeps and bloops from Game and Watch consoles, and his stage, Flat Zone, is a giant Game and Watch display with music composed of Game and Watch noises. He was the last character to be unlocked in Melee, and he was actually pretty annoying to unlock. There was also a fun Event in which you had to kill like 50 Mr. Game and Watch bots in the Flat Zone stage.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: They actually did a really good job translating a bunch of Mr. Game and Watch's titles, including Fire, Oil Panic, Chef, Judge, Greenhouse, Lion and over ten more, into both his regular and special moves in the Smash series. My favorite of these is easily his standard B special, the Sausage Flip. :D

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Okay, show of hands: how many people actually heard of Game and Watch before the character was added to the roster of Melee? Because I didn't. The games seemed reasonably popular back in the day and were Nintendo's first foray into handheld gaming, so I can definitely buy the argument for adding Mr. Game and Watch to Melee, which really seemed like a celebration of Nintendo's history. Plus, I think his creator had recently died during Melee's development, and Mr. Game and Watch was added to the game in tribute, so I can't argue with that.

Overall Rating: C. As Nintendo's first video game "star," Mr. Game and Watch earned his spot in Brawl, but he's still basically a walking, movable dead body outline and I've never played his games, so it's hard to care about him as a "character."

35. R.O.B.
Game(s): Brawl; 17th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: R.O.B. actually isn't a video game character, but rather a peripheral for the Nintendo Entertainment System. He worked with two games named Gyromite and Stack-Up, neither of which I've ever played. However, his design is pretty cute in that clunky mid-80's technology sort of way. More recently, he also appeared as an unlockable character in Mario Kart DS.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: Other than Wolf, R.O.B. was pretty much Brawl's only new character who wasn't spoiled on the Smash Bros. Dojo before the release of the game... and, needless to say, not many people were happy when they unlocked this thing and saw some obscure marketing ploy was added into the game over actual characters. This was perhaps Sakurai's worst mistake with Brawl: he revealed almost all of the new characters during the pre-release, and many of them were available from the start, leaving mostly veteran characters as the unlockables and causing people to complain that Brawl's roster sucked.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Since R.O.B. only supported two games, the Smash series basically had to come up with an entirely new moveset for him. He does have one special move that alludes to Gyromite, but apparently not one to Stack Up... at least not one that I found in the five minutes that I spent on Smashwiki and Youtube looking up R.O.B.'s moves. His moves work for his design.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: As Brawl's answer to Mr. Game and Watch as a quirky "nostalgic" character, R.O.B. seems out of his league for several reasons. Unlike Mr. Game and Watch, he isn't a video game character at all, but rather a flop of a peripheral that only supported two titles. For my own sanity, I like to pretend that R.O.B. was upgraded into R.O.B. 64 in the Star Fox series.

Overall Rating: C. R.O.B. has a very lovable design and his addition to the series wasn't entirely without merit, but he really doesn't belong in Smash Bros.

34. Princess Zelda
Game(s): Melee, Brawl; 17th out of 25; 37th out of 38 (Zelda only)/23rd out of 38 (Zelda/Sheik)
What do I think of this character in her original series?: Honestly, a lot of what I said for Link holds true for Zelda. Zelda never seems to have much personality nor character and, as the "Wisdom" representative of the Triforce, her only role is to provide info dumps of exposition before getting captured. She has a bland but pretty design and there's really not a lot to say about her. Except that, again, people really overrate what isn't a particularly great character. What really annoys me is how people give Peach so much shit for being "useless" and perpetuating the "damsel in distress" stereotype, but how the hell is ZELDA any different? Her fighting abilities are even more non-existent than Peach's and she gets her ass captured a LOT despite being the "wisdom" chick, so WHATEVER.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: Zelda actually used by my secondary main for the sole reason that she was a chick. And I never really bothered with Sheik because it always seemed a lot cooler to beat people up with magic. I originally remember reading that Sheik's specialty was supposed to be one-on-one combat while Zelda was better at crowd control, but I guess she wasn't that much better because she's mid-low tier while Sheik is top tier. I also think Zelda's scream when she gets knocked off the top of the screen is HILARIOUS. AI Zelda has a lot of annoying quirks, like spamming her sweep kick over and over again, though... and she's useless as HELL in that Event that pits AI Zelda and you as Link against Ganondorf.

How well did this character transition from her original series to Smash?: Like I said in my first paragraph, Zelda is worthless in her main series and her fighting style in Smash demonstrates why. Zelda has no moves of her own in Smash, except for being able to transform into Sheik, as all of her other Special Moves are spells that Link had to use in Ocarina of Time. In terms of giving the chick some special moves, Din's Fire, Nayru's Love and Farore's Wind all do the job just fine, but at least Peach came to the series with abilities that originate from games in which she is actually a playable character who kicks butt.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: In the sense that Zelda is her series' answer to Princess Peach and Smash really needed to add some women to the roster after the original game had only Samus... yes, Zelda's spot is deserved. They even got around the fact that the chick had no fighting ability in her true form.

Overall Rating: C. Zelda's implementation in Smash is fine but I am Peach fan true-and-true and it still annoys me that people bash my girl to praise this dumbass who can't even fend for herself without transforming into some alter ego (Sheik, Tetra) who magically gains the ability to fight.

33. Ganondorf
Game(s): Melee, Brawl; Tiers: 10th out of 25; 38th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: Ganondorf, like Sheik and adult Link, was apparently a creation that only came to life in Ocarina of Time. Before that, Ganondorf was "Ganon," a stupid looking deformed pig. Ganondorf represents the "Power" piece of the Triforce... which is fine since he's the villain.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: I'm mixed to negative about it. On one hand, Ganondorf's "A New Challenger Approaches" animation, as well as his official Melee artwork and win taunts, portray him as holding a sword that appears NOWHERE in the actual game. On the other hand, the sword characters don't really do much for me and I'm completely fine with not having another dude with a sword in the series. And then back on the first hand, Ganondorf is an inexplicable clone of Captain Falcon and Brawl did almost nothing to remedy this... in fact, he became the bottom tier character to boot.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Like I touched on in the previous section, the fact most of Ganondorf's moveset is jacked from Captain Falcon, who needed his own moves created on the fly in the original Smash Bros., is a pure WTF moment. He does fill the role as the Zelda series' slow power character in Smash but I seriously doubt Ganondorf, in any of his incarnations, uses Falcon Punch/Kick or air rape variations. Also, my friend used to speculate that one of the reasons why Melee was rated Teen is because Ganondorf basically thrusts his package into the camera when he taunts.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: The three representatives of the Triforce are the Zelda series' three essential characters. Like Mario, Peach and Bowser, you cannot have a game for Nintendo's All-Stars without having all three of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. Plus, Ganondorf is probably the most notable Nintendo villain after Bowser, so his inclusion is justified.

Overall Rating: C. Ganondorf is easily my favorite of the Zelda's "main three" because his appearance (at least in his Ganondorf form) does actually convey a sense of style and personality, unlike Link and Zelda who couldn't be more generic if they tried. But, as I've already said, the fact that he's a clone of a completely unrelated character is just pathetic.

32. Pokemon Trainer
Game(s): Brawl; 28th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: I'm not sure if Smash officially confirms it, but it's pretty obvious that "Pokemon Trainer" is really just a title for Red, the hero of Red, Blue, Yellow, FireRed and LeafGreen. And the same problem that I have with Link is the problem that I have with Red. Both are flat characters by design, as the creators want to provide the feeling that "you are the main character." And yet people in the Pokemon community overhype Red just as much as GameFAQs overhypes Link. There is nothing special about Red at ALL; he has no dialogue, no backstory and no personality. The fact that he just won the GPCT2 is quite honestly a joke to me, which explains the winner animation that confused all of the idiots on the site's Talkbacks, as the whole point of the video was to laugh at how these people had just voted for a guy who can only say "Yes," "No," and "... ... ... ... ... ... ..." to win a CHARACTER contest.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: Actually, despite my apathy toward Red as a "character," his implementation is a really original idea. It's sort of like Zelda/Sheik but better because Pokemon's gameplay is BUILT around having different types of battlers whom you can switch between. Granted, it's Red's Pokemon that actually do the fighting, while he sits off on the sidelines, so he's really more of a generic title than an actual character in the Smash series.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: They nailed Red in Brawl. He's a completely humorless bore who relies on his Pokemon to do his battling for him, and that's pretty much how he and every other player character in the Pokemon series behaves.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: To have a character who could switch between a handful of Pokemon was a brilliant idea, as I said before, and if you have to pick one Trainer to use to incorporate this idea, it might as well be the original player character whom most people can identify. There's also the fact that Red is the closest there is a "main" character in the Pokemon series and, since Pokemon is one of Nintendo's "Big Three," having the series' protagonist in Smash is a no-brainer. However, one or two of Red's alternate costumes really should have been Leaf from FRLG. I mean, seriously. It's not like the Pokemon Trainer model in the background is anything other than an aesthetic change.

Overall Rating: C. Red and Link are essentially the same "character," except that Red has slightly less story and dialogue in exchange for a slightly less annoying design and originating from a much better series.

Author:  Magikarps_Beast [ Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-32 done!

Agh... I am not happy, sir.

Maybe it's just the fact that I grew up with Zelda. My dad still had the original nintendo system, and ALL the Zelda games (Go Dad!), but sadly we lost most of them over the years. But I can still remember playing some of them, and watching him play them. And Ocarina of Time, ah man. I grew up with that game, I remember waiting for my mom to fall asleep so I could sneak out of naptime and go play Ocarina of Time, and then some Mariokart. Lol, but this just angers me. Lol

I guess I can understand where you're coming from about them having not much of a background story, and being overrated, but I just really like the characters. The roles they play are just cool to me. As I said, the characters backgrounds were never really the focus of the whole thing, but the background of all of Hyrule and the other lands in general. And it has been said that in the new Zelda game, Skyward Sword, it's supposed to be ANOTHER prequel, taking place before Ocarina of Time. So maybe you'll get your damn background story then, ;D (I'm still mad that you just eliminated the rest of the Legend of Zelda characters in one post, THEY'RE CLASSIC)

And about "Pokemon Trainer" I love using him, even though I think his pokemon could've been a little wider variety, rather than just the popular ones, but whatever. It's still cool, the idea of it is amazing.

Author:  shinashu taji [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-32 done!

Logged on and saw that the last of my three mains were eliminated. Cries tears. I love Link, and Sheik put them with Marth they are my most used characters in Brawl. Oh well that is the way it happens. Even though Link might not have a personality, I love the fact that he is a mute protagonist. It shows that a character doesn't need to talk to fulfill their role in the game. So I give Link much respect for that.

I always thought Sheik was into S&M and that is why they included the whip. Oh well there are still plenty of nostalgic characters left for you to rate Frost, and I can't wait to see where some of my old favorites land.

Author:  Dark_Swampert [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-32 done!

Here is my opinion (warning bluntness ahead): The reason Red won the GPCT is because Red is the greatest POKEMON character. All real pokemon players know who Red is. So the fact that he won shouldn't be that much of a surprise. As for Sheik yeah its "considered" her male alter-ego its for story purposes since Link doesn't know its a girl. Sheik is a great character. R.O.B is awesome, I actually have an old R.O.B in my garage and its enjoyable from time to time. Link although never talking, kinda grasps the player because he's silent hero who already knows what to do. Not to mention he's a great character for the point that the player "becomes" him.

This has been a public service announcement by: D_S

Author:  Frost [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-32 done!

How is Red the greatest Pokemon character when he isn't a character to begin with? He's a virtual manifestation of the player and he has no personality nor development. You need to have at least one of those two things to be considered a "character." Wally and Silver are very different characters at the start of their games than they are at the end of them. Red at the end of GSC is the exact same person as he is at the start of RBY, only with stronger Pokemon. And it's fine if a character doesn't change as long as he or she has a memorable personality, like Blue or that crackhead rival in DP, but Red lacks that as well. He is recognizable but that's it. How many people who aren't diehard Pokemon fans would even know the dude's name is "Red"?

Author:  shinashu taji [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-32 done!

If Red is the greatest Pokemon trainer, then I am Mary Queen of Scotts. Link has at least a shred of personality with some facial expressions. Red however has none throughout the game. The trainers you encounter as Red throughout the game have more personality than him.

Author:  Magikarps_Beast [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-32 done!

Yeah, I didn't understand why Red one. I mean, he has absolutely no personality. And the fact that his dialog at the end is "..." is almost creepy to me, especially in that creepy pasta. I know if I just OWNED the so called "OMGZ KEWL POKEMANZ CHAMPION" and all I got was a blank stare I would be a little creeped out.

And Link does show personality through his smiles, and motions, but being silent is really mysterious, and pretty cool in its own way. he doesn't need to talk to kick ass. Also, Sheik IS Zeldas male alter-ego. She's not "considered", she is, just like Tetra in Wind Waker.

Author:  rex09 [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-32 done!

Magikarps_Beast wrote:
he doesn't need to talk to kick ass.

Funny, isn't that what Red does??

While I'll agree that Red as a character sucks, I think he won because of a) sentimentality and b) his silence allows the player to get more into the game by putting their own reasoning for their ingame actions onto Red. If that made no sense, then basically, we could pretend to be the Pokemon Trainer, because Red's personality isn't defined. Those are really the only reasons why I chose Red over Lance.

Regarding the actual rankings:
I pretty much agree with everything so far, though I use Zelda and Sheik more often than Peach. Captain Falcon... I never understood why he was so popular, and probably never will. I mean, he's not Link; most of his fanbase comes from the SSMB games anyways, so that's always kinda been an enigma to me (i mean, let's face it: the F-Zero games suck). but i use Game and Watch and ROB a lot, so I was kinda sad to see them go so early. Maybe it's because ROB has such a tragic storyline in the Subspace Emissary, or because I just want to give him a hug, lol.

Author:  Registeel_Rocks [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-32 done!

rex09 wrote:
Captain Falcon... I never understood why he was so popular, and probably never will. I mean, he's not Link; most of his fanbase comes from the SSMB games anyways, so that's always kinda been an enigma to me.

A lot of people like C. Falcon because they think he's "manly" in terms of his physical stature and his move set (kneeing someone at high speed in mid-air? I dare you to disagree at that being manly). Plus, he's a really fast heavy character, so his playstyle is interesting and difficult to grasp.

rex09 wrote:
(i mean, let's face it: the F-Zero games suck)

F-Zero games have a reputation for turning away racing fans due to its insanely high difficulty to master, but it's still a solid racing series that has graced multiple Nintendo platforms. In fact I'm shocked there hasn't been an F-Zero for Wii yet.

As for my opinions on Frost's most recent rankings, I'm okay with 'em. Sure I love the LoZ series, but the characters in them aren't too high on my video game character favorites list, let alone my Smash Bros character list. However, I would like to mention that Wind Waker had some nicely fleshed out characters for the series, primarily Zelda/Tetra.

To fill you in, Frost, Zelda disguised herself as Sheik to hide herself from Ganondorf, as he was trying to capture her for her piece of the Triforce. Near the end of the story, Sheik revealed herself as Zelda to Link, and at that moment Ganondorf captured her, since her cover was blown. Also, spoilers.

I too had hoped for alternate version characters for Pokemon Trainer alt costumes, especially Ruby/Sapphire's Brendan.

Author:  Edoc'sil [ Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-32 done!

Meh. Link and toon link are out. Now to route for Kirby!

Author:  Galar [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-32 done!

Yay, more rankings! Thank you, Frost ;__;

Wow, lots of The Legend of Zelda characters are out already.

I have mixed feelings towards this series of games. I've played through Ocarina of Time up to the Water Temple (until I got sick of browsing the internet for help where to find stuff) and Majora's Mask only up to the point where you get that Deku (is it what it's called?) mask. Maybe I'm slightly biased since I haven't played the other games, but from what I've experienced I can easily say I both like and hate the Zelda series. Aaand I've watched a playthrough of Twilight Princess, but I guess this doesn't really count...

Perhaps I'm just too impatient and stupid for these games. It's my fault really. I simply despise puzzles, so pretty much half the fun the games should provide is converted into pure frustration and anger. I love the action-adventure part, though, as well as the series main storyline, the settings and the characters's design, particularly from Twilight Princess. I only wish I could enjoy Zelda games in all their "glory" to purchase one, but the puzzle thingy is a real disappointment for me. Too bad.

That means I'm not very familiarized with the Zelda characters either, and I've only played Melee once or twice, so I can't say much about it. Also, I haven't played most of the games many of these characters represent, but I'll do my best.

I'm not a big fan of Toon Link and Young Link either, but that's mostly because we already have Link, and I personaly feel their spots could be used for either other Zelda characters or just other characters from different games. And Toon Link just looks disturbing to me.

I find Captain Falcon a funny character, but that's only because of the Subspace Emissary cutscenes, when he appears to help Olimar. I don't like the character himself, and I've never played his game (though I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it anyway).

I love Wario, though. I love Wario in the Mario Kart series, and I sort of enjoy his game for the GBA (can't remember the name), but that's all I can say. I don't find him the best Smash Bros character, but even though the whole farting thing is disgusting and a bad joke, I think he's a funny weird-looking man, and I play with him in SSBB for giggles.

I used Pichu against my friend on the very few times I played Melee, but that was only for one round. The fact that Pichu hurts itself when using electric attacks is a very good idea, but since I'm a horrible, awful player, that didn't help me enjoy the game, so I had to drop him and go back to good ol' Pika.

I have no idea who Marth and Ike are, and I never felt like playing with either, not even for the sake of giving it a try. I don't fancy sword-characters either, and I didn't like to play with them in the Subspace Emissary, so to me they're a waste of space. Ike looks better, but they both kind of suck.

I can be a demented fangirl sometimes, so Link scores mid-to-high in my rankings due to the fact I find him gorgeous (the green tunic doesn't really help, I'll admit, but I like his garment in the very beginning of Twilight Princess, which I'd rather have other than an alternate tunic in SSBB). Gameplay-wise, though, he'd be mid or mid-to-low; I just don't work well with his moveset, which is a shame.

Zelda is an adorable lady, but I don't usually favor the more delicate characters. Ganondorf has some cool looks, but I'm not a fan of big/slow/GRR characters either. I just don't feel attracted to neither.

Now, Sheik is something else. This is where fangirl Galar comes out of the closet once more. I'm not going to delve further into the reasons why I love this guy/girl/whatever, but he/she is definetly in my top-tier. I do like the character's moveset, though I wish she'd be slightly slower and slightly stronger, but it's a-okay, she's fine the way she is. I have to admit the 90 degree running kind of creeps me out, but I always thought of it as intentional, to emphasise she has great ninja skills and can do some pretty weird contortionism, which is kind of helpful considering her main skills.

Pokemon Trainer is one of my favorite Brawl characters as well, and he seems to be good friends with Lucas too, so that's cool. I love Red precisely for his apparent non-existing solid background, no dialogues and all the creepypasta that involves him. I'm okay with him never saying a word; I actually think this makes him a lot more respectful, and mysterious, and scary, and I like that. However, even though it's pretty cool to have three Pokemon to chose from, I don't use him too often.

Until I made a research, I had no idea where R.O.B and Mr. Game & Watch came from. I never use them, never did, and probably never will.

Author:  Frost [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-32 do

31. Wolf O'Donnell
Game(s): Brawl; Tier: 22nd out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: Wolf debuted in Star Fox 64 and, while the encounters with Star Wolf are annoying as HELL for new players, Wolf and his team were memorable additions to the series in their debut game. However, Wolf was absent from Star Fox Adventures and his role in Star Fox Assault was underwhelming at best... kind of like everything else about that game, actually. Like essentially the entire Star Fox series and its cast, Wolf was at his peak in Star Fox 64, which remains the series' one great game.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: My best adjective for Wolf in the Smash series would be "disappointing" for reasons that will be addressed in the proceeding two sections. I also think his Smash design is pretty awful. The Star Fox characters really do not translate well to Melee and Brawl's more "realistic" graphics, and Smash Wolf is easily uglier than Smash Fox or Smash Falco.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Like his Star Fox series counterparts, Wolf is rarely seen outside of his aircraft, so his hand-to-hand combat abilities had to be whipped up on the spot. In reality, they basically copied and pasted Fox's moveset to Wolf. For the most part, this doesn't bother me that much because the two are counterparts; however, the fact that the Landmaster is Wolf's Final Smash is completely stupid and nonsensical because the Landmaster is from the Star FOX team's arsenal and the Star Wolf team doesn't have a land rover equivalent.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: In a word - NO. Along with R.O.B., Wolf was the only new character in Brawl who wasn't spoiled on the Smash Dojo before the game's release and he was THE single most disappointing addition to the roster in my opinion. For one thing, Wolf is JUST ANOTHER CLONE! We already HAD Falco, who wasn't dropped or changed from Melee, so adding Wolf was perhaps the addition MOST at odds with Sakurai's "no clones" policy, and this is the same game that gave us TOON LINK. Plus, IF the Star Fox series deserved a third character, and I honestly think that its underwhelming history doesn't warrant a third slot, it should have been Krystal because she is one of the few remaining notable Nintendo female characters when Brawl added exactly ZERO women to the roster. And when you consider that Samus is STILL the only representation for Metroid, which is MUCH bigger in America than Star Fox, Wolf's inclusion is really stupid and shows that Sakurai pandered mostly to what Japanese players wanted when it came to representation for the different Nintendo series.

Overall Rating: C. Wolf has some style and is the obvious choice for a Star Fox series villain in the Smash series, but he's just another clone and is easily the least deserving character to debut in Brawl.

30. Lucas
Game(s): Brawl; Tier: 30th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: Lucas is the main protagonist of Mother 3, the third installment of the Earthbound series. However, Mother is pretty offbeat and, after Earthbound didn't perform well in the States, Nintendo didn't bother bringing Lucas' game overseas. Thus, I don't know anything about Lucas except that, since the Mother games are unrelated, he and Ness share a spell or two.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: I never used him when I played Brawl with the Psypoke staff members last year, and I don't think anybody else used him so that I could see him in action, either. So I'm pretty neutral about Lucas in all regards. I do think his design a little bit more interesting than Ness', though... maybe it's the platinum Elvis hair?

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: All of my knowledge about Lucas' moves comes from hearsay, so it's hard to make a verdict. Apparently his physical moves are different from Ness', which is good, but I dislike how he shares three special moves with Ness. However, I don't know what moves Lucas learns in Mother 3, so I'm not going to accuse Sakurai of intentionally making another clone here.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Mother is a strange case in that the games are popular in Japan but not America beyond its cult favorite status. If Brawl were geared for players outside of Japan, then Lucas obviously wouldn't be there; however, since the roster is created for Japan primarily and then the rest of the world at a distant second, I can't say he's undeserving.

Overall Rating: C. Lucas is probably the one Smash series character for whom I have the most neutral opinion. Never played his original game, never played as him or even saw him in action in Brawl, and I know virtually nothing about him, so he gets a middle-of-the-road placement in my rankings and a final grade reflective of that.

29. Ness
Game(s): Vanilla, Melee and Brawl; Tier: 9th out of 12; 24th out of 26; 27th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: I'm definitely going to piss people off with this... but I don't "get" Earthbound. I gave it several chances to catch my interest and it always failed. I'm not saying it's a bad game or anything, but its cult following really overhypes how "great" it is. It's a quirky SNES RPG that bombed in America because typical American gamers want JRPGs that have teenagers with character development and swords (i.e., Final Fantasy) over a non-typical RPG that lampoons American suburbs and stars little kids with psychic powers and yo-yos (i.e., Mother). I'm not a fan of Earthbound's interface, and Ness as a character is pretty much a Link or a Red - a mute protagonist.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: Ness, like Captain Falcon, was completely unknown to me when I unlocked him in the original Super Smash Bros. Since I was eleven at the time, he was also hard as HELL to unlock and his atypical third jump made him one of my least favorite characters to use. I do remember how GameFAQs acted like he was the best character in the game back in 1999, yet oddly enough he's considered 9th out of 12 today. Ness returned, even further nerfed, in Melee, and my worst memories of the entire game were trying to beat the Space Travellers Event in which you had to defeat Fox, Falco, Kirby, Samus and Falcon with one Ness life. I SUCK with Ness, so that was THE hardest Event for me and the last one I completed (besides Event 51, naturally).

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: As far as his regular moves go, they hit most of the right notes with Ness' Smash implementation, as he fights with his key weapons from Earthbound: his yo-yo and his baseball bat. He also has his main magic attack from Earthbound, PK Flash, in the Smash series... but the rest of his Special moves actually belonged to Paula and/or Poo in the original games, which is kind of lame. Ness had plenty of other attacks from Earthbound that they could have used before dipping into the movelist of other characters.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: In the American version, I would say no. Earthbound was the only installment of the series to receive an American release and it was a major flop. However, Sakurai worked on Smash as well as the Mother series and he understandably gears the Smash rosters toward Japanese audiences (despite claiming otherwise for some reason). Mother IS a hit in Japan, so Ness' spot is deserved in that sense.

Overall Rating: C+. I actually do like Ness for being quirky and different from the typical Nintendo hero. He might be a silent protagonist in a basic sense, but it actually works for him because his surrounding world in Earthbound is so surreal and satirical. Still, the Earthbound series doesn't do a whole lot for me and I generally don't like kids, so Ness couldn't go higher.

28. Charizard
Game(s): Brawl; Tier: 28th out of 38 (tiered with Squirtle and Ivysaur as Pokemon Trainer)
What do I think of this character in his original series?: I already gave Charizard four paragraphs of coverage in my Pokemon ranking thread, which was the more than any other Pokemon except my top favorite. The tl;dr version: Charizard is a 7/10 Pokemon who has a good design, although it's one that isn't really my cup of tea. Still, because Charmander was my first Starter and people were batshit INSANE over Base Set Charizard back in the day, it has some nostalgic moments to me.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: Even before Brawl came along, Charizard appeared as a Poke Ball Pokemon in Melee, so it's the only character in Smash who played an important in-game role before becoming a playable character. Like the other Pokemon characters, Charizard is rendered in simplified graphics compared to the rest of the Melee/Brawl cast - which is actually kind of a shame, especially in Charizard's case because it could look REALLY cool and scaly in Melee's graphics.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: In addition to the graphics, Charizard is pretty authentic to his appearances in the Pokemon series. He has his anime growls and two moves to represent his STAB types: Flamethrower and Fly. I do have to say that Rock Smash is an oddball choice for a side Special move, though, because it's a really weak move in the Pokemon series. I actually would have preferred if Charizard hurled the rock at his opponent and they called it "Rock Slide" even though that would be more on par with the Pokemon series' Rock Throw.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Charizard is easily one of the top two most popular Pokemon overall, with Pikachu being the other. And Pokemon is the second most important franchise to Nintendo after Mario. So the question isn't "Why did they add Charizard to Brawl?"; instead, it's more like, "Why did it take them until Brawl to add Charizard?"

Overall Rating: C+. As everybody should know if they read my rankings, Charizard is decent but not ~amazing~ in my opinion.

27. Roy
Game(s): Melee; Tier: 19th out of 26
What do I think of this character in his original series?: As I've already said, I've never played Fire Emblem and it's not a series that's on the top of my list to play, at least not with so many other games to finish first. I am told Roy has only appeared in one game of that series so far, so... there's that, I guess.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: I actually do prefer Roy over Marth in Melee and, no, it's not because Flare Blade does 50% damage if your opponent is a drooling idiot who sits there invalid, allowing you to fully charge it. The reason I like Roy more is simply aesthetic - he doesn't look like a chick, and his hair is a realistic color, unlike Marth and Ike's BLUE. Also, I definitely would have preferred Roy returning to Brawl over a new clone of Marth from the latest Fire Emblem game debuting in Roy's place, but meh. I'm pretty apathetic to all three of them.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Again, I wouldn't know. But because Roy's moveset is essentially Marth's, and Melee predates the release of Roy's only game... I'm not optimistic.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Objectively, Roy is the most undeserving character to appear in the series, whether we're talking about American or Japanese release. This is because Melee was released before the sixth installment of Fire Emblem, in which Roy debuts. In the sense that NOBODY, regardless of country of origin, even KNEW WHO ROY WAS when Melee first came out, calling him one of "Nintendo's All-Stars" was an absolute joke. However, he was included to promote Fire Emblem 6, so at least he did have a purpose for being there, even if it clashed with the Smash series' M.O.

Overall Rating: C+. Out of the three Fire Emblem characters in Smash, Roy is probably the most popular with the casual fans. Due to his design, I also like him the most of the three, even though that's not saying a lot because they're all generic guys with swords to me. Still, at least Marth and Roy's inclusion in Melee got Fire Emblem games released in America... the Mother series can't say that much. >_>

26. Pit
Game(s): Brawl; Tier: 18th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: I've only seen Kid Icarus one time: when I watched Registeel_Rocks beat the game when I met him last year. The game itself looked a lot like The Legend of Zelda or Metroid's NES installments, only with mythological elements. Pit himself was just another one of many silent Nintendo protagonists, but his design has far more cultural and historical flavor than the generic likes of Red or Link.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: He looks like a flying, Greek mythological version of Roy and he plays like a crazy sword character with Peach's horizontal recovery and the Ice Climbers' vertical recovery. Overall, he brings a pretty fresh design and fighting style to the series. And his Brawl redesign is WORLDS better than what his trophy looked like in Melee. Also, I find the Internet rumors interesting: they say that Pit was supposed to be in the original Smash, got cut, was supposed to be in Melee, got cut again for the Ice Climbers, and then finally got included in Brawl.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Since I only watched a friend play Kid Icarus one time and never played it myself, I'm not an expert on Pit's repertoire. But he gets good recovery from his wings and his bow and arrow are present, so he looks pretty accurate to me.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Like Mr. Game and Watch, Pit was created by Gunpei Yokoi, who died shortly before the release of Melee. Also, like the Ice Climbers, he is Brawl's "retro" hero - the protagonist of a long-forgotten Nintendo title who made the jump to the current generation of video games and was introduced to new audiences. In terms of notability, Pit had little to current gamers, but that was kind of the point of digging him up, and it resulted in a new Kid Icarus game being made after nearly two decades.

Overall Rating: C+. Pit's actually a pretty cool character. He has a nice new design and his fighting style seems pretty unique. I just can't put him any further at this time because I've played neither the original Kid Icarus nor as Pit in Brawl. I could see him jump up to mid-high in the rankings if I ever actually get Brawl, though.

25. Dr. Mario
Game(s): Melee; Tier: 11th out of 26
What do I think of this character in his original series?: Dr. Mario is actually one of my favorite NES games, and I even like it more than Tetris. Since 2008, I've spent countless hours on killing viruses in Dr. Mario because my professors' lectures were so boring in my computer classes. And, hey, Mario is always awesome regardless of whether or not he's a Doctor.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: Dr. Mario is really probably the most desperate addition of a clone character in Melee. At least with other cases, like Mario or Luigi or Pikachu and Pichu, the two characters are actually different entities that have storyline reasons for being similar. But Mario and Dr. Mario are the only case in which ONE character has TWO slots on the roster, even if there ARE a couple of move properties different between the two and Doc throws Megavitamins instead of Fireballs. Hilariously, Dr. Mario does actually trump regular Mario in Melee's tiers.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Dr. Mario is Mario in a doctor costume and with a stethoscope and Megavitamins in both the game Dr. Mario and the Smash series. So, in other words, they nailed it.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Dr. Mario is notable for being one of the first of many successful Mario spinoff games. But, at the end of the day, the fact that Dr. Mario got a spot over so many more deserving characters is a joke, and he was rightfully dropped from the roster for Brawl. But he still should have returned as an alternate costume for Mario, damn it!

Overall Rating: C+. Dr. Mario is probably the most unnecessary inclusion to the series, but the game itself and Mario as a character are both awesome.

Author:  Registeel_Rocks [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-25 done!

yay you mentioned my playthrough of Kid Icarus. :D

Disappointed to see Ness not make it farther, but I do realize that you didn't really get into Earthbound so I'm far from outraged or anything.

Glad you mentioned Krystal and how she deserved to be in waaaay more than Wolf. I don't know why Japan was ***** for another male anthro furry with the same moves... we could've had a female anthro furry with unique moves. :(

I still think Ike is way better than Roy and Marth, because he's like the second most powerful character in terms of raw strength. Plus Aether looks badass. AND he fights for his friends. Do you fight for your friends?

Author:  shinashu taji [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-25 done!

It really bums me out that Nes got cut now, he is my old school favorite. I always used him when I unlocked, I didn't know about tiers at the time. Ness was always my favorite and I would always beat my brother to the point where he wouldn't play me if I used Ness. So Ness will always live on with me in the original Smash Bros as my main character.

Author:  Dark_Swampert [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-25 done!

Wolf really really pissed me off. Being the last unlockable character in-game besides the secret methods to get zero suit samus, and stand-alone sheik he was a gigantic waste of my time. I've played the star fox series and was like WTF since when did he get a landmaster equivalent. I like playing as Lucas more than Ness due to the fact that, although Lucas is slightly weaker, His final smash is waay less predictable. Sad to see him go, but my fave guy isn't out yet so its cool.

Author:  Frost [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-25 do

24. Ivysaur
Game(s): Brawl; Tier: 28th out of 38 (shared with Squirtle and Charizard as Pokemon Trainer)
What do I think of this character in his original series?: A recurring theme of my Pokemon rankings was that I didn't care about middle evolutions. Ivysaur was not an exception to this general rule, as it isn't as cool as Venusaur nor as cute as Bulbasaur. It also had little in the supplementary canons to boost its status, unlike similar middle evolutions such as Bayleef.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: True to its status as a middle evolution, Ivysaur is the median character between Squirtle's speed and Charizard's power. It looks a little more badass in its Smash form than most of its Pokemon sprites, but overall it doesn't excite me that much. Apparently it has issues with KOing opponents and has bad recovery.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: While all of Ivysaur's Special moves and its Smash Attack are moves that it can learn in the Pokemon games, I would have preferred if it had a little more variety than all Grass-type attacks. Charizard didn't have moves that were exclusively from its main type, so why is that the case for Ivysaur? Why couldn't they have dropped Bullet Seed, which is only a weak TM move in the games, to make Razor Leaf its neutral Special and Tackle its Side Special? Why couldn't it have gotten Sludge Bomb or ANY Poison attack at all?

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Honestly, no. Like many middle evolutions, Ivysaur is less notable than both Bulbasaur and Venusaur, which are already the least popular of their respective Kanto starter stages. And even if you try to reason it as "They wanted all three possible stages of a Pokemon's lifespan to be represented in Pokemon Trainer's team," Ivysaur is an inferior choice for a middle evolution to Wartortle, who has way more personality.

Overall Rating: C+. In both the Pokemon series and the Smash series, Ivysaur is a decent but not amazing Pokemon. As I said in my Pokemon rankings, I would have much preferred for Squirtle and Ivysaur's stages to be switched, giving us the superior Bulbasaur and Wartortle, respectively.

23. Sonic the Hedgehog
Game(s): Brawl; Tier: 24th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: In the 16-bit gaming world, there are two types of people: Mario fans and Sonic fans. When I was a kid, I had a Sega Genesis and not a Super Nintendo, yet I'm unashamedly a Mario guy through and through. Sonic represents how Sega shamelessly sought to make a "cooler" alternative to Mario and, honestly, I really don't find a giant furry who runs fast to be that "cool." It's especially sad how the Sonic games were marketed on the basis of Sonic's and the Genesis' faster running speed when very rarely are you ever blazing through a level in the Sonic series at full speed, unless of course you're a veteran who has the level layouts memorized. (Hi Krisp!) While I do appreciate Sonic 2, 3 and Knuckles (and just about nothing else from the series, honestly), I am primarily a Tails fan so I don't even care Sonic compared to the competition in his OWN games.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: I'll ignore the elephant in the room for two more paragraphs and just stick to the basics about Sonic in Smash. I guess the biggest disappointment about Sonic being in Smash is that they went with his fugly next-gen design, which has those long gangly legs that just look ridiculous compared to the classic Sonic design. I'm also surprised that Sonic has such an average tiering because I remember people going on and on about how his speed was so unfair back when Brawl first came out.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Even though Brawl made the mistake of using Sonic's updated design, they stuck to classic Sonic for his moveset. He has his Spin Dash, the ability to charge said Spin Dish, the ability to jump high after bouncing off of a spring, and his Final Smash involves him becoming Super Sonic. He really didn't need anything else, although it would have been nice if the Spin Dash were his Down Special and his very similar side Special were replaced with his temporary invincibility shield from Sonic 3 instead.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Ironically, Sonic is probably the second most important character to Nintendo's history, whether talking about Smash's roster or just in general - and he's not even a Nintendo character! If you were a kid growing up in the 90's, the question of "Mario or Sonic?" was an ever-present one. So to have a real game where Mario and Sonic can actually FIGHT each other should have been a mindblowing proposition to just about any member of Generation Y. (And, no, Mario vs. Sonic at the Olympic Games does NOT count.) Once Snake was confirmed and third party characters in Brawl became a reality, everybody knew that Sonic HAD to be one of them, even if it met that he and Snake would be the only two... and they were. Third party character or not, Sonic should be very important to Nintendo as, if for no other reason, his appearance in Brawl is a symbol that they won.

Overall Rating: B-. Putting aside how I feel about Sonic as a character, his inclusion in Brawl is epic on principle, and hence he gets a much better placement and final grade than he would through his own qualities.

22. Mewtwo
Game(s): Melee; Tier: 18th out of 26
What do I think of this character in his original series?: As a Pokemon character, I've already given my two cents about Mewtwo in my first ranking thread. The tl;dr version for him is how I like that he has more story than the average Pokemon, but everything else about him, including the mutant cat design, is just "alright." Except for how many idiotic children he attracts in the Pokemon games because he's so overpowered, which is annoying.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: First of all, WHOA. I had NO idea Mewtwo went up that high on the most recent tier revision. When you stop and think about it, 18th out of 26 for the character who was dead last in the very first Melee tier list is pretty admirable. A lot of things have been said about Mewtwo's shittiness in Melee over the years, especially compared to his non-stoppable Pokemon form, but I actually like that he's not some gamebreaking asshole in Smash, even if he is too floaty for my tastes. It's also a huge disappointment that Mewtwo got dropped in Brawl. People try to claim that Mewtwo and Lucario are "similar" but please. They have their neutral Special attack in common, so if you're going to claim that Lucario and Mewtwo would be clones, I hope you're also prepared to say that Mewtwo and Samus are clones too. Also, I love the way Mewtwo holds weapons - little character-specific quirks like that are not lost on me.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Actually, Mewtwo in Pokemon and Mewtwo in Smash couldn't be more different. On a superficial level, he has the same design and moves that he can learn in the Pokemon series: Shadow Ball, which is his trademark move in the movie, and Teleport, Disable and Confusion, all of which are really weak attacks in the Pokemon series. But when you contemplate how Mewtwo stacks up against competition, Mewtwo in Pokemon dominates over pretty much all comers while Mewtwo in Melee is a chump who can get owned by Jigglypuff, which means that he did not transition well.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Mewtwo was one of the most notable Pokemon from Pokemon's fad stage. Kids everywhere would catch Mewtwo in the Unknown Dungeon and use him on their teams, and they flocked in droves to see the first movie, in which Mewtwo starred. So Mewtwo was definitely deserving, and the fact that he was removed from Brawl is still the biggest disappointment of that game's roster.

Overall Rating: B-. Like Charizard, I think Mewtwo is decent but not amazing in the Pokemon series. However, I feel a little more inclined to defend Mewtwo in Smash because he was such a joke in Melee and he is the only non-clone character from Melee who was dropped in Brawl.

21. Meta Knight
Game(s): Brawl; Tier: 1st out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: In the Kirby games that I've played, Meta Knight only played a major role in one: Kirby Super Star, in which one of the mini-games was centered around Meta Knight. This mini-game and others imply that Meta Knight's sword, the Galaxia, makes him evil. He consistently shows up in the Kirby series as an enemy character, yet I remember him mostly for his role in the Kirby anime, in which he was Kirby's mentor and usually appeared with a Spanish guitar fanfare and spouted obvious information like "The sky is blue~." In general, Meta Knight is implied to be the same species as Kirby, as his mask typically breaks to reveal a similar face in the Kirby games.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: I am quite aware that Meta Knight is the top tier character in Brawl and, unlike previous top tier characters, is placed so far above everybody else that he has his own tier and people legitimately want him banned from serious competitions. However, I don't play high-level Brawl (nor do I have played Brawl at all, really) so the typical reasons that one would hate Meta Knight are pretty much lost on me. I doubt Meta Knight being overpowered was an intentional move, as Sakurai seems extremely reluctant to make characters from his own series (i.e., Kirby and Mother) really good for risk of looking biased.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: It looks like they hit all of the right notes with him. He has his Galaxia sword, his ability to float like Kirby and fly with his bat wings, and is a fast and powerful character. All of these qualities are ones that I remember about Meta Knight from the Kirby games as well.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Honestly, it's really questionable to me that the Kirby series deserves three slots in Smash's roster, especially when Metroid still only has one character. If the Kirby series deserves three slots, then the anti-hero Meta Knight is the obvious third choice after hero Kirby and villain King Dedede. The Kirby series in general is one of those series that seems far more popular in Japan than it is in America and, since Sakurai not only gears the roster toward Japan's taste but also worked on the Kirby series, Meta Knight's presence is justified.

Overall Rating: B-. Meta Knight is a cool enough character from a series that I do enjoy, but it's hard for me to put him much higher because I never used him (or watched somebody else use him) in the one time that I played Brawl.

20. Falco
Game(s): Melee and Brawl; Tier: 2nd out of 26; 6th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: When compared to his two worthless counterparts Peppy and Slippy, Falco was the only wingmate in Star Fox 64 who wasn't completely useless in combat. He also had a more memorable personality than the other two, thanks to his brash cockiness, and he had an interesting relationship with minor NPC Katt Monroe, so he was definitely one of the stars of the game. Like the other Star Fox characters, Falco took a major nosedive after Star Fox 64, being absent for much of Star Fox Adventures and gaining a horrible new voice in Star Fox Assault.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: He's a clone of Fox, more or less, except I think he's slightly bulkier, stronger and slower. Yet, like with Mario vs. Dr. Mario, he actually trumps the character he copies in Brawl since Fox was nerfed extensively while Falco's tier ranking is nearly unchanged. I also don't like his Final Smash involving the Landmaster - not only does he never use one, but he says himself in Star Fox 64 that he MUCH prefers the sky. And, like Fox and Wolf, I really don't like Falco's model in Melee and Brawl - his bill is too crooked, and the rendering of his colors makes him look like he got punched in the eye. In other words, I don't like his FACE.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Honestly, it doesn't bother me that Falco is a clone of Fox in the Smash series. As portrayed in the Star Fox series, particularly in Star Fox 64 and Assault, Fox and Falco are equally capable and have similar abilities in both the Arwing and on foot. However, they probably could have come up with a better Up Special for Falco, considering he's a bird and therefore probably capable of flight, while Fox is not.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Yes. Falco is probably the fan favorite of the Star Fox series, and he is definitely the most deserving character of that cast to appear in Smash after Fox himself. And the Star Fox series is at least successful enough to warrant two slots on the roster.

Overall Rating: B. Falco is a good character in Star Fox 64 and he retains a lot of his coolness in the Smash series, but his fighting style isn't really my personal cup of tea, consistently high tier placement be damned, so he's good but not great in my eyes.

19. Squirtle
Game(s): Brawl; Tier: 28th out of 38 (shared with Ivysaur and Charizard as Pokemon Trainer)
What do I think of this character in his original series?: Even though Squirtle is both my least favorite Kanto Starter and was my least favorite Water Starter until Oshawott came along, it's a cute turtle design and it has my favorite evolutions of the Kanto Starter set. It has a lot of cute TCG artwork and was one of the more memorable Kanto Pokemon thanks to the anime and the virtue of being a Starter.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: Squirtle is the fastest of Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon, which is at odds with the Pokemon series' statistics but consistent with the anime's portrayal that Pokemon get slower and more powerful when they evolve. Something about Squirtle's model in Brawl looks very off to me, though. Its face doesn't look right, especially when its mouth is hanging open in its official render. If I ever picked Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle would probably be my main choice because it's my favorite Pokemon of his trio in general.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: I originally thought that Squirtle was like Charizard and had a more varied selection of moves from the Pokemon series as its Special moves. Turns out that all of Squirtle's moves are Water-type ones. Like Ivysaur, I would have preferred more variety; they could have dropped Waterfall and given him Rapid Spin as a Bowser-esque shell spin that doubles as his Up Special, and his Side Special could have been Skull Bash or Ice Beam. Water Gun is weak in the Pokemon games, but it makes sense because that's Squirtle's trademark move in the anime.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Since Squirtle is one of the most notable Pokemon, yes, its spot is deserved, unlike Ivysaur's. However, I maintain that I would have preferred getting Bulbasaur and Wartortle over Squirtle and Ivysaur. It's also a bit unfair that Squirtle is the only Starter base form who was a selectable character in the Smash series, although that's mainly due to Charizard's insane popularity and the directors wanting a middle evolution on Red's team for some reason.

Overall Rating: B. Squirtle is a likable Pokemon both in his series of origin and in the Smash series. Like I said before, it's my favorite Pokemon of Pokemon Trainer's selection, so it would/will definitely be my "main" if/when I get Brawl and use Pokemon Trainer in it.

Author:  Registeel_Rocks [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-19 done!

I saw that picture of Mario and I flinched for a second--then I realized it was Squirtle in the picture who was being ranked. :p

Author:  Frost [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-19 done!

Yeah, blame the Smash Dojo for not having the official renders of Red's Pokemon as separate pictures. :P

Actually, the Mario series has the most characters still in the running with Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong. Second place is Pokemon with Pikachu, Lucario and Jigglypuff. The rest of the series have one or two people left, including Ice Climbers, Olimar, Snake, Fox, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Kirby and King Dedede.

Author:  shinashu taji [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-19 done!

Mewtwo was a funny character in Melee and it was funny when he held items he would look at them and be all like "what the hell is this thing?"

Author:  Krisp [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-19 done!

Sonic is awesome and has always been one of my favorite video game characters ever, I can definitely say that as a kid I would have loved to see Mario and Sonic together in a fighting game beating the crap out of each other. 90's Nintendo and Sega rivalry ftw!!!

Author:  Everlasting Sapphire [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-19 done!

Nooooo!!! Not Meta Knight and Falco!!!! :(

I'll go ahead and say that I disagree with nearly every single of your rankings, Frost, but I still find them incredibly entertaining to read. Keep up the good work! :)

Author:  Edoc'sil [ Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-19 done!

In the subspace emissary, I did nothing but hold Falco's A-button move against giant evil diddy kong. He couldn't move, so I won eventually. It was hilarious.

Author:  Frost [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Frost's Rankings - The Super Smash Bros. Cast: #45-19 do

18. Donkey Kong
Game(s): Vanilla, Melee and Brawl; Tier: 7th out of 12; 15th out of 26; 20th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: The continuity of Donkey Kong got funky as his series separated more and more separate from the Mario series. Even though the character "Donkey Kong" debuts with Mario in the game Donkey Kong, that's apparently Cranky Kong, while this Donkey Kong was Donkey Kong Junior in that game's sequel. In that case, Donkey Kong has always been a pretty decent guy even though his dad was kind of an asshole for stealing Mario's forgotten girlfriend Pauline. As a character I've only really used Donkey Kong in his N64 game, where he's cool enough. Otherwise he is more memorable for being in just about every Mario spinoff ever, particularly Mario Kart 64, where my dad calls him "monkey" in an angry tone whenever the AI DK causes shenanigans.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: DK is a slow powerhouse, and those are almost never my style when it comes to video games. And, unlike the Bowser, who is even slower and heavier, I don't have a massive interest in Donkey Kong as a character to prompt me to use him more. However, DK IS a godsend in the endurance matches against the Wire Frames in SSBM. You bet your life that I picked him and spammed his Down Special to unlock Falco! And, unlike the Star Fox characters, I do actually like DK's Melee and Brawl design. His fur looks fuzzy and cute but they didn't jack up his face like those other animal characters.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: DK's known for his helicopter spin, his giant punch and his move in which he causes an earthquake from drumming on the ground, which was probably the inspiration for Donkey Konga. All of these are included in Smash as his Special moves. Thankfully, he is present in the Smash series with his Rare design instead of his ugly original Nintendo design, too. He also brought us the DK Rap... sorry but ew.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Before Bowser, Ganondorf, King Dedede or Mother Brain, Donkey Kong was the original Nintendo villain. Unlike the others, DK managed to spinoff to become a successful protagonist in his own right. He also filled the role of the stereotypical slow powerhouse in the original Smash Bros., and did it better than anybody else would have except for Bowser, so his presence was definitely justified.

Overall Rating: B. Donkey Kong is a classic Nintendo character. While he's not exactly my favorite Mario series character, he is a lot better than many of the other crackheads who made the cut in the Smash series. And I was kind of sad when they retired him from the Mario Party series, so I guess I do like him a fair amount even when he's not starring in his own games.

17. Snake
Game(s): Brawl; Tier: 2nd out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: To be frank, I have no idea. I've played only one Metal Gear game, the original for the NES, and I didn't get very far. Stealth really isn't my thing at all. However, I'm aware of Snake because he's a major character in the GameFAQs character contests. And, well... he's this high because he's hot as hell. Or, if you have a problem with people finding video game characters attractive, then let me reword it like this: if a real person looked like Snake does in Smash, he would be HOT AS HELL. Enough said.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: He's hot as hell, like I said above. :P Though I do think it's funny how the Internet pointed out that Sakurai made Snake's ass really big. Anyway, Snake was the original third party character revealed, which led to all sorts of crazy Internet speculation and expectation about other third-party characters being added to the roster. In the end, we only ended up with Snake and Sonic, but they were two good additions. I'm also really surprised that Snake is the top tier character after Meta Knight. I guess even though he doesn't like to make his own characters useful, Sakurai has no problem making other peoples' characters awesome.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: I wouldn't know and I'm not going to pretend to know. But the whole box thing is hilarious, and I imagine Snake is as badass in Metal Gear as he appears in Smash. Old Snake notwithstanding.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Admittedly, Snake looks more out of place than Sonic does, as Sonic has the mind-blowing dream match factor with Mario to fulfill. But since Snake's series started out on the NES and, as rumors say, the creator of Snake's series practically begged Sakurai to include Snake in Melee and then Brawl, it's fine with me.

Overall Rating: B. The only real male eye candy in the Smash series. And he's one badass motherfucker on top of that.

16. Fox McCloud
Game(s): Vanilla, Melee and Brawl; Tier: 2nd out of 12; 1st out of 26; 16th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: As far as Nintendo heroes go, Fox has one of the strongest backstories and one of the highest amounts of dialogue. His backstory is simple, though effective, in that he joined the Star Fox team after his father James was supposedly killed by Andross. This led to one of the best moments of Star Fox 64, in which James' spirit appears to guide Fox to safety after he had destroyed Andross' true form. He also trained with his friend, Bill Grey, and is now presumably in a forced shipping with Furry Sue Krystal. While Fox does have dialogue, he has a pretty straight-forward personality, but this is fine because A) so few Nintendo leads get Fox's amount of dialogue; B) the Star Fox series does have stronger personalities from which Fox's can bounce off.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: Like I've said before, I'm not a fan of the Melee/Brawl designs of the Star Fox characters. In the original games, all of three of them are kind of simplified and chibi, like how Fox appears in the original Smash, so the super high-detailed fur and new facial graphics just make the characters look strange. Fox looks the best of the three, and looked pretty good in Melee, but his Brawl design does not work for me - he looks too bulky. Also, as Melee's top tier character, Fox exemplifies everything that's wrong with SSB tourneyfags - the joke line "no items, Fox only, Final Destination" sums up why people should NOT try to force Smash to fit the typical fighting game mold, because it's NOT a fighting game.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Since most of Fox's time is spent in the Arwing in his main series, they could have done a lot worse. Fox's blaster comes directly from Star Fox 64's multiplayer mode, his reflector shield is exactly like the Arwing's and I can buy his other two special moves being based on the Arwing's abilities as well. However, I would have liked to see his movelist updated to incorporate Krystal's staff if they were never going to bother adding her to Brawl. The Land Master is also a fine Final Smash for Fox since he's the one who drives in the damn thing, unlike Falco and Wolf.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: The Star Fox series, though disappointing as a whole, hits its peak in gameplay and relevance with Star Fox 64. Therefore, it's no surprise that Fox was added to the roster in the Nintendo 64 installment of Super Smash Bros. Even though I question why his series deserves three slots, Fox's inclusion warrants no complaints.

Overall Rating: B+. Although he is an anthropomorphic animal, Fox somehow feels more human than a number of Nintendo's lead characters, especially when compared against the mute cardboard likes of Red or Link. Even though his series plummeted hard after Star Fox 64, Fox himself still managed to come out of Adventures and Assault looking pretty good, which is a feat indeed.

15. Luigi Mario
Game(s): Vanilla, Melee and Brawl; Tier: 10th out of 12; 14th out of 26; 21st out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: Like any normal kid in the 90's, I thought Luigi was soooo much cooler than Mario and I would always try to get my mom to play Super Mario Bros. with me so I could be Player 2 and use Luigi. Back in the day, Luigi was a taller, skinnier Mario who wore green and could jump higher. Over the years, namely starting after Mario 64, Nintendo gave Luigi a new personality to distinguish him from Mario: he became a wuss who was afraid of everything, culminating in his starring role in Luigi's Mansion, and I seriously used to think Luigi was gay because Nintendo gave him a lot of feminine little quirks such as twirling like a ballerina when he won mini-games in Mario Party. So while Luigi was now "different" from Mario, he was a hundred times worse, and it took me years to get used to Luigi's new role as the series' butt monkey. Also, Luigi/Daisy is a vague, boring pairing that Nintendo needs to stop implying. Daisy doesn't even exist in any Mario games that matter except the Luigi-less Super Mario Landi.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: The original Super Smash Bros. is probably when Luigi's new personality started to creep in, because he received his first wussy mannerisms and a higher-pitched voice in that game. Said mannerisms and vocal pitch were retained in the sequels, much to my displeasure. Even though Luigi is technically a clone of Mario, Smash has taken steps to distinguish him from Mario beyond simply having the same set of moves with different properties, so I'm not as hard on Luigi as I am toward the series' other "clones." But he really should have stopped being a secret character after SSB because, really, Luigi is in the Smash series?! No shit! Also, Luigi's pink alternate costume in Melee is ~fabulouth~ and one of the reasons why I used to think he was gay.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Luigi is a taller, skinnier, lighter and wussier version of Mario in both the Mario series and the Smash series. He jumps higher and he's harder to control. These are all authentic to the Mario series. However, I don't like that Luigi Cyclone wasn't replaced with a Special Move that incorporates the Poltergust 3000, since Mario got a new move that uses FLUDD. Also, the Negative Zone is horrible Final Smash that doesn't have anything to do with Luigi at all. They couldn't have made a more random move if they tried.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Out of all of the Mario series' characters, Luigi is most likely fourth in importance after Mario, Bowser and Peach in that order. And since the Mario series deserves more representation in Smash for being Nintendo's flagship series, Luigi's presence is a no-brainer.

Overall Rating: B+. Luigi is a classic video game character in his own right, even though I'm sick of his entire story being "Mario's shadow" because it's boring and overdone at this point. The only thing preventing Luigi from an A and going higher is his lame new personality.

14. Diddy Kong
Game(s): Brawl; Tier: 3rd out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: I've only played two of Diddy's platforming games: Donkey Kong Country 2 and Donkey Kong 64. In the former, I much preferred killing stuff with the hair of Dixie Kong, who incidentally should have been in Brawl, by the way! In DK64, Diddy was pretty cool with his peanut gun. However, Diddy's best game for MY money was actually Diddy Kong Racing, which is one of the only great "Mario Kart clones" since it's a racing game with three different vehicles and an overworld reminiscent of Mario 64.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: Honestly, I've never seen Diddy in action because I didn't pick him and neither did anybody else in the one time that I played Brawl. However, I was definitely glad to see him debut because the "Donkey Kong series" was severely underrepresented since Smash counted it as its own franchise and not part of the Mario series. And I was pretty surprised to see that he's such a high-tier character since he didn't seem like the kind of character who would amount to much in Brawl when he was first revealed.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: Unlike the goofy Star Fox cast, the Kongs' designs actually transitioned well to Smash's more detailed graphics. Diddy is a fast and light guy which fits well with his role in his original games. He has his main trademarks, the monkey flip and the peanut gun, so they implemented him well. I just wish his BFF Dixie Kong made the cut too. ;(

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Diddy Kong is another one of those characters where the question is less "Does the character deserve to be in Brawl?" than "Why it take until Brawl for them to implement the character?" Especially, like I said, when the Smash series classifies the Donkey Kong series as its own entity separate from the Mario series. Diddy is easily the second most important character in the Donkey Kong canon, and he was even popular enough to carry his own games back in the day, so he was long overdue to debut in Smash.

Overall Rating: B+. Even though I would have preferred Dixie, Diddy Kong puts a "cool" twist on Donkey Kong's design and does it without making me roll my eyes. The only thing that's really holding him down is that I haven't actually used him in Brawl.

13. King Dedede
Game(s): Brawl; Tier: 10th out of 38
What do I think of this character in his original series?: King Dedede is the most famous villain of the Kirby series, although he's definitely not the most evil. He's a penguin who commands an army of Waddle Dees and he whacks stuff with his hammer. I remember him more for the Kirby anime, in which he had a stereotypical southern accent and his servant Escargoon, who spoke just like Paul Lynde and was only slightly less gay, definitely wanted to jump his bones.

What do I think of this character in Smash?: I was actually more excited to see King Dedede's reveal on the Dojo than any other new character in Brawl except for one. As you guys probably remember from my Pokemon rankings, I love the penguins, and King Dedede is one of those lovable villains like Bowser who is an antagonist but isn't really evil. I never used him or saw someone else use him in Brawl, but he's definitely one of the top characters that I'd like to try out. I'm also excited to see that he has a decent tier placement because all of the villainous characters in Melee (Bowser, Ganondorf, Mewtwo) had horrendous tier rankings.

How well did this character transition from his original series to Smash?: I remember King Dedede for two main things: his huge ass hammer and his army of adorable Waddle Dee. Thankfully, both are present in full force in Brawl. Other things that they nailed about Dedede are his ability to swallow opponents and to jump high and float far, just like Kirby. They definitely did him justice and I'm glad.

Did this character deserve to be in the Smash series?: Since the Kirby series is pretty popular in Japan and Smash's creator Sakurai also worked on that series, it was only a matter of time before additional Kirby characters were added to the roster. King Dedede is one of Nintendo's most recognizable villains and, as the most iconic Kirby villain, he definitely earned his spot.

Overall Rating: B+. King Dedede is just an awesome character. In addition to being a penguin with a huge hammer, he's a villain with a dash of humor and personality, which is one of my favorite types of video game characters. He is a memorable and worthy addition to the series.

The top twelve: Mario, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Lucario, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Kirby, Ice Climbers and Captain Olimar.

Page 2 of 3 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group