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 What is your ideal Water Pokemon? 
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Gyarados WAS definitely the best water pkmn, in RBY. And i also like it (disregarding its fighting power), so i use it in RBY.

since, GSC, special is devided into SA and SD, and its SA is largely weakened. I could hardly accept this change :x :evil: :twisted: . Despite this fact, i still use it in GSC. :(
with this change, i modify gyarados from a special sweeper to a mixed sweeper (its SA is weak, but its my only water pkmn), with EQ and surf, etc. in the moveset.

nevertheless, {kabutops} is also a marvellous dual type water pkmn. recently i make it into my team in FrLg

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Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:27 am
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An interesting change, I guess, I only used Gyarados in gold because I had a thing for red back then. Still, I prefer {omastar} to {kabutops} really, Kabutops doesn't have the SA to take advantage of the grass moves it learns, nor the water part of its type. Your thoughts?

{omastar} @ Leftovers
Shell Armor
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Bite
-Ancient Power

What about Vaporeon? I noticed nobody brought that up?

{vaporeon} @ mystic water/scope lens/leftovers/shellbell
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Bite
-Acid Armor/Attract

An offensively focussed moveset, but bite does fit in well for those pesky psychics with thunderbolt or thunderpunch. :wink:

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Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:05 pm
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Milotic is the best battle wise.
Golduck is the cutest, followed by Vaporeon.
Kabutops looks the coolest.
And the ugly award goes to Starmie.

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Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:12 pm
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Sharpedo, Kabutops, Lapras, Milotic or Crawdaunt
{sharpedo}{kabutops}{lapras}{milotic}{crawdaunt}

They look cool, Sharpedo is part dark, and Lapras is a nice surfer.

-=LV=-

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Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:51 pm
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I've edited the title slightly. I see potential in this topic, because it is generating a fair bit of interesting discussion. Please, however, post reasons/movesets/strategies when you recommend Pokemon, just to prevent this topic from degrading into a "Fav Water Poke" topic.

Anyway, here are some Water Pokemon I like to use:

Wailord @ Leftovers
Docile | Oblivious
252 HP, 252 Sp Atk 6 Atk
~Surf
~Ice Beam
~Earthquake
~Rest


Not the best set around, but effective in-game. Who could resist all that HP?

Slowbro @ Lefties
Modest | Own Tempo
252 SA, 129 Def, 129 SD
~Calm Mind
~Psychic
~Surf
~Flamethrower


Slightly underrated imo. Slowbro has an interesting type combination, but it has the stats and the movepool to support it.

Starmie @ Lefties/Petaya/Salac
Modest | Natural Cure
252 SA, 252 Spd, 6 HP
~Cosmic Power/Recover
~Surf
~Psychic
~Thunderbolt/Ice Beam


Good blend of defense and offense, with Cosmic Power and Recover good options for the former, and plenty of offensive Special type moves for the latter.

Lapras @ Lefties
Modest | Water Absorb
252 SA, 129 HP, 129 Def
~Surf
~Ice Beam
~Psychic
~Confuse Ray/Attract


A pity it can't learn Calm Mind. Water Absorb is a very useful ability, so switch this in when you anticipate the use of a Water type move.

Lanturn @ Lefties/Petaya/Salac
Modest | Volt Absorb
252 SA, 252 Spd, 6 HP
~Rain Dance
~Thunder
~Surf
~Ice Beam/Thunder Wave/Confuse Ray


Great Rain Dance+Thunder+Surf combo.

Ludicolo @ Lefties
Modest | Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP 129 SD 129 Def
~Rain Dance
~Leech Seed
~Ice Beam
~Dive


And, of course, who could forget the (arguably) best Drainer Pokemon in the game? This dude can 6-0 less experienced players.

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Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:47 am
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It's a pity {kingdra} doesn't have a larger move pool don't you think? Dragon Breath has to be bred, none of the other breeding moves are much good to it, and Swift Swim isn't terribly useful if you think about it. Just going straight to Agility once would have greater effect, but correct me if I'm wrong. 2 things in this post: 1) a dreamt up {kingdra}, 2) {pelipper}

{kingdra} @ Leftovers
Modest | Water Absorb
252-SA 132-HP 128-Spd
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Dragon Breath

Not gonna happen. Ever, I'm pretty sure of that, but just change the ability and switch Tbolt for something like Agility or Rain Dance or something and it's fairly standard I think. If there was an ability for absorbing dragon attacks, it would do well here. No weaknesses at all, decent stats (with EVs). But anyway.


{pelipper} @ Leftovers
Modest | Keen Eye
144-Speed 144-SD 222-SA
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Shock Wave
-Mist

This was my second ever pokemon on Emerald, which I got before the other Hoenn & Kanto revisted versions. Surf was STAB, Aerial Ace got superceded by Shock Wave to take advantage of high SA vs. low Attack, though the EVs weren't quite like listed. Ice Beam for nasty flying-with-electric-moves and to take care of dragons-with-too-much-time-and-attacks. Mist was a doubles-battles thing for stats.

The only thing I don't like about Pelipper is the 4x weakness to electric attacks. Other than that I find the 2x weakness to rock types acceptable, mainly because rock types tend to be slower. Electric attacks should technically be of less worry because of the high SD, but it really means much less when u've Kyogre using Thunder plus Calm Mind, not to mention ganging up in doubels battles with a Mewtwo using Thunder as well. True though, I haven't encountered that yet.

Comments anyone? Im feeling high.......

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Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:02 am
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Rain dance is used in place of agility on kingdras because it boosts their speed and increases surf's power. Also, kingras don't have the 2x weakness to thunder.

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Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:06 pm
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There are always many waters to go with... you have Ludicolo, Milotic, Gyarados, Feraligatr, Quagsire, Lanturn, Kingdra, Blastoise, Octillery, Slowbro/king, Golduck, Pelliper and even Crawdaunt and Kingler if you felt so much inclined. My opinion on the three best is:
1. Kingdra: Utter ownage. Totally screwed up many players in the GSC days. Would be totally awesome X 50 if it could learn a better dragon move.
2. Lanturn: Boltbeam+Surf+Twave/Cray+Volt Absorb=killer pokemon.
3. TIE:Octillery+Slowbro: Surf, Psychic, Flamethrower, Calm Mind. Utter Killings, but Octillery has Surf, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Thunder Wave, which is also awesome. I've used Octy, it kills. Slowbro I've never actually used, but it has good Spec. Sweeping stats as well as a good movepool.

And my awards:
The Overrated/Overused Award:
Milotic

The Strangest Moveset Award:
Slowbro (who would've thought it'd learn FLAMETHROWER?)

The Most Underused GOOD Award:
Octillery

Just my opinions, remember that...

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Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:34 pm
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I've designed a new list:

here are some sets/EVs I like to use:
My favourite water of all: MILOTIC!!!
(I use a sponge thing as I don't like to Special sweep with milotic, anyone have better EVs for it?)

{milotic} @Leftovers
Calm / Modest Nature
129HP / 129SA / 252SD (or vice-versa for the HP and SD)
Surf / Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Recover
Mirror Coat

^ The cool thing is that this thing really works, trust me. (Remember you can give up 129SA to pump up HP if necessary)
9/10


{crawdaunt} @Leftovers
Adamant Nature
252ATK / 252SPD / 6HP
Sludge Bomb
HP Fighting
Swords Dance
Filler e.g. Rest or offensive physical move

^ Not very powerful, and basically just a standard {crawdaunt}, but meh, I like to use it sometimes....
6.8/10


{vaporeon} @Lefties / Chesto Berry
Bold / Calm Nature
129DEF / 129SD / 252HP
Acid armour
Rest
Surf
HP Electric

^ Meh, It's quite wierd, as {vaporeon}s DEF is low. But overall a fun moveset, don't try at home (As in competitive play)
6/10


OK, I'm bad at making movesets, eh? :P


Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:31 am
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Lapras -

Awesome Boltbeamer, imo. It gets awesome HP so it can survive two Zapdos' Thunderbolts for the 2hko with Ice Beam. Worth using anywhere.

Miltoic -

Yet to use this, but there is no doubt of how bulky this water is. Friggen absorbs the tbolt and then Recovers in your face. If it gets burned, it jumps for joy for the Def. boost. It can recover any burn anyway.

Lanturn -

Best UU Water type. It's just awesome. Can be the greatest annoyer, and one of the few that resists boltbeam.



Sucky Water types

Wailord -

I don't care how big his HP is, it's nowhere near Blissey's. Blissey is at least able to survive fighting moves because of her HP, but since Wailord has HP lower than that PLUS completely horrible defenses, it just cannot last.

Whiscash -

Easily the worst of it's typing combo, Whiscash got screwed over in the stats department hard. No one stat that raises it above neverused level. =/

What used to be Seaking but is now CORSOLA! -

Has an AWESOME movepool. Of course, it's going to suck then. Wow, horrible stats, gets killed off by its bad typing. Anything that can take a hit will kill this unless it's name is Magcargo.

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Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:28 am
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I feel the need to defend Corsola (don't ask why).

{corsola} @ leftovers
Natural Cure | 138-HP 124-spd 124-Def 124-SD
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Recover
-Confuse Ray

The way I see it, {corsola} could be an excellent addition to any doubles battles, setting up Reflect and Lightscreen to halve the damage from any attacks, which would be especially useful for (say) {gardevoir} which is kind of fragile against physical attacks. Confuse Ray and Recover are to keep it up in battle a little longer.

Agreed, it has bad stats, but its defensives are in fact pretty good (base 85?) so just some HP and speed to keep it up and running and allowing it to setup quickly.

You could partner it with a whiscash?

{whiscash} @ leftovers
Oblivious | 40-HP 240-Def 240-SD
-Mud Sport
-Water Sport
-Surf/Rest
-Earthquake/Snore

Which would make (in my humble opinion) a reasonable all-defensive moveset team. Mud and Water sports dampen electric and fire attacks which is even worse against a Rock/Water (fire damage x0.0625) or a grass type (electric damage x0.125). The EVs for Def and SD would help it last longer and the HP EVs are just icing since it already has a high base HP (110?).

So I agree, Corsola has poor stats, but definately has its uses, under the right conditions, of course. If anyone thinks they've better EV stats for these 2 please correct me, same with movesets :)

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Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:41 pm
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Having Corsola and Whiscash together is just asking for Sceptile.

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Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:44 pm
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My fav. Water Pokemon.... would have to be.... {starmie} Why? The world may never know.... It's Psychic and Mew is Psychic and Starmie is Water. So its cool. :roll:
~BM

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Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:50 pm
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Here's a moveset that I found interesting for {vaporeon}.

@leftovers/lum
A-water absorb
N-Calm (+Sp Def, -Att)
EV's: Tank Set (252 Hp, 129 Def, 129 Sp Def)

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Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:11 pm
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Vaporeon becuse it water absorb and acid armor, Ludicolo because of in my opinion is te best drainer and is very good water sponge and Starmie because of you shold may now


Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:10 pm
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Uhh, wenziz? There's no point in Water Sport, Whiscash is Water/Ground :wink: . And both of those pokemon ask for a Grass-type: both are slow and have cruddy defences (ok Corsola's isn't so bad I guess... it's average).

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Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:25 pm
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Fair enough, I realize they are both weak against grass types, but it isn't exactly a strict-adherence type thing right?

On the other hand, I have only needed to put up full defensives in 2 out of a good many battles on the frontier. I lost inbetween though, or I'd have more to show for it.

Anyway, what about Relicanth?

{relicanth} @ Leftovers
Adamant | Rock Head
236-HP 34-Def 240-SD
-Yawn
-Double Edge
-Substitute
-Swagger

-Rest
-Swagger
-Substitute
-Double Edge/Snore

This would be (I think) a fair tank. Relicanth on its own has pretty good defense (130 base?) but less than acceptable SD (65 base?) so if you split the EVs that way it works, plus keeping the grass types down for a while. Rock Head, Swagger, and high Def seem to go together pretty well to me, confuse him/her and then double edge. Works well here where the Att is acceptable and double SA.

{relicanth} @ Scope Lens
Modest | Swift Swim
240-SA 240-SD 30-HP
-Rain Dance
-Surf
-Rest
-Snore

This (I think) is pretty standard, 3-way Rain-Surf-Swim thingy, Rest and Snore are to take advantage of the high defensive stats, plus the slightly raised HP.

Please don't tell me I'm (again) just inviting grass types, my umbreon took 2 vital throws and was still standing and there were only 2 or 3 levels difference. Thanks :D

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Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:08 pm
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My favorite are {swampert}
{feraligatr}
{lanturn}
{sharpedo}
and {ludicolo}

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Mon May 08, 2006 8:41 pm
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Lapras is my favourite water pokemon, because it's on my team, which is all my favourites :roll:

But it's really close between Lapras and Gyarados. Sharpedo comes a close 3rd.

-=LV=-

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Mon May 08, 2006 9:23 pm
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You've overlooked two things, wenziz:
1) Umbreon has a really high Defense.
2) This is a 4x weakness, plpus low defense.

Still, Relicanth is an OK pokemon... use when there is no fear of grass-types. Max out its Defense and HP, give it Yawn, Rest, and Sub/Swagger and EQ/Double-Edge and you're good to go. With a good nature, you've got yourself a tank. Switch out when a grass type or pokemon with a grass attack appears. Stay away from Houndoom.

Why is nobody defending Mantine! Mantine is OK, but it does ask for Thunderbolts from pretty much anything these days (Gardy and even Tyraniboah). It's OK in NU battles, I guess... Makes a wicked Spec. Sponge with 140 base Sp. Def.

Mantine @ Lefties
EVs: 252 Sp. Def, 252 Def, 6 HP.
(Calm Nature)
- Toxic
- Rest
- Mud Sport/Protect
- Surf

Simple, you Toxic, then you Mud Sport/Protect. If you Mud Sport, then you start Surfing, Rest when needed, if you Protected, then you alternate Surf and Protect. Simple as pie.

Zapdos, with max Sp. Att can OHKO it with a Thunder, unless it Mud Sported. I used the Damage Calc:

Without Mud Sport: Average: 526 damage (OHKO)
With Mud Sport: Average: 263 damage

Can be a very good Tank. Try it out...

EDIT: ZOMG leik I forgot the nature.

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Last edited by Lugia34 on Sun May 14, 2006 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat May 13, 2006 5:49 pm
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BWHAHAHAHAHAHA...saw that post on creative movesets like 5 minutes ago :lol:

Pelipper does about the same as Mantine you realize?

Just the SD difference...Oh I get it...

OKOK, try partnering it with something that can use...Light Screen? Yea, that's the one...Maybe a lightscreen+tank...

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Sat May 13, 2006 10:56 pm
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I checked, and I can't find a moveset anyone posted for Wailord except for the pretty standard docile natured one. Anyway, how about this one?

{wailord} @ Leftovers
Adamant | Either
30-HP 120-Att 180-SD 180 Def
>Substitute
>Rest
>Snore
>Earthquake

The only problem is that it's useless against Flying types or levitators, but I thought a physical wailord would be refreshing. Substitute I think is obvious, and I'd have focus punch if the thing had hands&arms. I'm thinking of posting it on creative movesets, comments anyone?


Sun May 14, 2006 4:16 am
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Physical Wailord isn't so much of a bad idea, as its attack and Sp. attack are the same, at base 90. Tons of HP helps Rest and Lefties. Both of its abilites help, one against Burns (to lower attack) and the other to prevent infatuation (which sucks).

For the moves... Sub is obvious with so much HP, EQ helps against everything except Flyers and Levitators and Snore is for while you're asleep. Rest is explained above. Good idea on raising the Def. and Sp. Def, those stats both suck at Base 45 each. Good job on this, post in Creative Movesets if you haven't already.

We've forgotten Feraligatr! He's very Physically minded... so lets post how he shines:

Physical Sweeper:
Feraligatr @ Choice Band/Liechi Berry/Leftovers
252 Att. 252 Speed.
Adamant | Torrent
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Return
- Swords Dance

Max attack, Swords Dance up then sweep like there's no tomorrow with Earthquake (via TM 26) Rock Slide (via Breeding) and Return (via TM 27). Total pwnage IMO. Might want to BP some speen from Jask, because of a 78 base Speed iirc.

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Sun May 14, 2006 12:02 pm
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Lugia34 wrote:
We've forgotten Feraligatr! He's very Physically minded... so lets post how he shines:

Physical Sweeper:
Feraligatr @ Choice Band/Liechi Berry/Leftovers
252 Att. 252 Speed.
Adamant | Torrent
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Return
- Swords Dance

Max attack, Swords Dance up then sweep like there's no tomorrow with Earthquake (via TM 26) Rock Slide (via Breeding) and Return (via TM 27). Total pwnage IMO. Might want to BP some speen from Jask, because of a 78 base Speed iirc.



Agreed, Feraligatr is physical very inclined. However, some suggestions here:

1) Ancient Power over Rock Slide because its a small difference in bp for increased accuracy and a chance to increase ALL stats which is useful. Coupled with Serence Grace Chansey with Skill Swap in a doubles battle and you've got it going fairly well. I think.

2) Aerial Ace over Return because Return (IME) is not the most reliable, though I agree it has potential. However, Feraligatr does not have Keen Eye or other accuracy maintaining abilities/moves and Aerial Ace would be useful against the pesky grass and fighting types.

3) I think Earthquake's fine, except that electric types would probably OHKO Feraligatr before earthquake comes into play. It's base speed is, after all, only 78. Which is why I would at least consider Screech to maximize physical damage.

That said, I like the idea of a physical feraligatr, I had a bit of trouble with my special-based one in GSC. How about a sub-puncher?

{feraligatr} @ lefties
Adamant | Torrent
78-HP 180-Att 252-Spd
>Substitute
>Swords Dance
>Focus Punch
>Rest/Attract

Sub-Punch part is self-expl, SD is to further eccentuate the physical damage aspect, and Rest would be to recover HP (obviously). Attract would be to extend the effects of Substitute. Thoughts anyone?

Credit to Lugia34, wouldn't have thought of it without him/her :wink:


Sun May 14, 2006 8:37 pm
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I've thought something up for Milotic; Though since it has no trapping abilities, it's potential is weakened a little. So here it is:

{milotic} @Lefties
Bold Nature
108HP / 214DEF / 188SD

~ Toxic
~ Attract / Surf
~ Confuse Ray
~ Recover

Annoyer.

Alternatives: {corsola}.

Mainly for double battles, as it can force your opponent into a switch-out. This means you have a good opening to attack with a powerful sweeper, etc.
Here's how it works: First, use Toxic, if succesful, try Confuse Ray (Not attract, as your opponent could possibly switch into a pokemon of the same gender). Now you may Recover, or if you really think it'll work, use attract. From there, if you have Surf / Ice Beam, you may go on the offensive.

It has it's flauws, but might work. I've yet to test it though.


Mon May 15, 2006 7:57 am
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