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Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
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Author:  labarith [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
I can't help but think Beedrill is a bad pokemon. But I like it. But it's bad.

There are, I think, three ways in which one can make it better:
1. Give it a new, more powerful evolution.
Problem: Pretty much a kick in the teeth to level 100 beedrill owners out there, unless it's a trade evolution or something.
2. Give it a hold-item (Lightball, Orbs, etc.) that only improve it, or a signature move it has, etc.
Problem: I'm getting sick of ietems that can only be used on 1 pokemon. Heck, I'm upset there's few new pokemon that use the original evolution stones... :P
3. Give it some new moves.
(4. Change it's stats/move powers/etc. Undesirable for obvious reasons).

I like #3, so here's what I propose:
New Moves it can learn:
1. Insect or poison versions of "Giga Impact" (Boring, probably won't help much).
2. "Insect Beat Up"... roughly "Beat Up", but with a name like "Swarm" that lets all of your insect pokemon deal damage (but not your non-insect pokemon).
Why? Well, it will reward you for playing lots of insects. Make it have 5 PPs, have each insect do, say, 40 damage, and you can do upwards of 240 damage if your whole team is insects (which unless you're a bug pokemon player, it probably won't be). Like Beat-up, have each pokemon do the damage. However, unlike Beatup in older generations, actually show the pokemon coming out of their balls, replacing the original guy, then having the original guy return to finish off the swarming effect.
3. "Some move that redirrects fire attacks at their owner" Probably 5PPs, probably make it a flying type ability, but definately give it to the final evolutions of some popular bug types (or have it be an egg-move??? Hard to pass on a flying attack to a weedle though, flavorwise). Maybe have it have a 50% succes rate (although, if you use it , chances are you'll only redirrect one move. Have it have a limited time effect, say for 406 turns or something?).
Author:  Pikapal642 [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Quote:
Have it have a limited time effect, say for 406 turns or something?


Do you mean 4-6? ^__^

I agree that bug types kind of need a bit of a boost. I hope generation V amends this...Hopefully, they create a bug type that can withstand a long battle.
Author:  Lawence Codye [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Pokemon who I think need better moves in Gen 5;

1. Beautifly = considering it is one of the infamous Insect pokemon it would at least have a wider type variety among it's movepool
2. Leafeon = WTH does it learn Leaf Blade as it's final attack, this is stupid but mainly so on top of all the special Grass attacks it learns instead of it actually having a decent number of physical Grass attacks which it doesn't for some reason, it has no SPATK compared to it's ATK so this is outrageous
3. Exeggutor = for it's type combo there is no excuse here that it doesn't have more type variety & in my opinion any Psychic pokemon should be able to do something with Electric attacks I mean
4. Kingler = No physical Water attacks of any use until Crabhammer & no access to Waterfall HM makes him a poor show for me, not my idea of a Physical Water pokemon at all, at all
5. Torterra = To Be Completely Honest, the only thing about it's movepool that acks me to no end is that stupid *** placement of the move, Leaf Storm I mean why even put that on a pokemon whose more suited to Physical attacks instead of a more physical Grass attacks

Pokemon I think need certain moves (not all of them ok?);

1. Vulpix / Ninetales = no real excuse not to be Baton Pass accessable, not one
2. Krabby / Kingler = umm ah, what, no Aqua Jet or at least the oh god please no, Dive
3. Solrock / Lunatone = this pokemon are as close to Sun/Moon theme as it gets just beating Espeon / Umbreon so WTF can't they learn Morning Sun / Moonlight respectively, somehow I hope they get justice come 5th Gen seriously

Moves I think should be distributed differently;

1. Shock Wave = now come on, Psychic pokemon should have Electric capabilities to begin with & this move can't be freely distributed on any Psychic pokemon, really though I mean so what if it has another type that isn't Electric capable like Grass, etc
2. Baton Pass / Covet / Swicheroo / Trick = Aside from Trick I am garenteed that not enough pokemon learn the moves by some method & some pokemon should have access to certain ones even if they already learn another, just saying
3. Hail = it should be added that this move makes it harder for pokemon to connect with moves & also that it should power up Ice attacks in general not just Blizzard & should give Ice moves a little more of a chance to freeze the victim in the case that they actually have the added effect

That's all I feel like having for right now so...later...
Author:  labarith [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Lawence Codye wrote:
2. Leafeon = WTH does it learn Leaf Blade as it's final attack, this is stupid but mainly so on top of all the special Grass attacks it learns instead of it actually having a decent number of physical Grass attacks which it doesn't for some reason...it has no SPATK compared to it's ATK so this is outrageous...

You'll find there are relatively few "good" attack moves. When Hyperbeam became special, we got Giga Impact and it's rock equivalent (on 1 pokemon... WTF?), but all things being equal ALL of the "attack" moves are outclassed by special attack moves. Especially when you factor in that you actually have to TOUCH your opponent's pokemon.. yuck!

So having, say, and attack of 100 and a special attack of 80, it's probably better to learn your max special attack move (Say Blizzard) rather than your on-type max physical attack move (EQ deals 100, almost everything else does like 80).

So... yes... there need to be new "physical attack" moves on par w/ special attack moves in some sense. I think strengthening Strength and Rock Smash and Headbutt to 100, 60, and 80 respectively would be a good idea. (While we're at it, make "Cut" Cut Berry Plants, not weeds (removed altogether) in the game, AND take "cuttings" of grass pokemon (which will grow cabbage patch kids-style until you get an exact IV copy of the parent, except missing moves, including the same type - so taking a venosaur cutting gives you a Venosaur.)

Now I'm okay if a physical attack move has less PPs than it's special equivalent (keeping up the status quo of special attack mattering more in-game), but I'd like to take someone with 300 attack to the table and not have his moves be outclassed by someone with 150 special attack.
Author:  Lawence Codye [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Umm, are you agreeing with me labarith orrr? I was reffering to it's LV Up moves, not everything else which it actually has a nice amount of quality among...

& I forgot 1 pokemon earlier that needs better moves but not per say by LV Up...

Glaceon = It has enough type variety for 1 predictable movepool, just 1 with 1 or 2 moves left over, it just ain't cutting it...

More later...
Author:  KingErick [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
i think all pokemon should get 3 good moves (not tackle or stupid stat moves) add to its movepool.

stab is preferable but i wont whine if its not.
Author:  Ajit [ Sat May 01, 2010 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
How about a "weather" move for dark/ghost types. They could call it Sheer Darkness or Nightfall or Pitch Black.

Cancels all other weather moves. Can be ended immediately by Flash, Charge, Explosion, or Selfdestruct. For 5 turns: chance of flinching doubles, Evasion of Ghost/Dark Pokemon increases 20%, Solarbeam weakens 50%, and the healing power of Morning Sun, Synthesis and Moonlight is decreased from 1/2 to 1/3 of the user's max HP. The effects of Nightfall will last for eight turns if its user is holding Twilight Rock.

____

Idea behind the flash, charge, explosion, and selfdestruct are those are ideally very bright moves that would end the effects of this move. Idea behind flinching is that in the dark your more likely to be startled/scared and therefore flinch. Idea behind ghosts/dark being more evasive... well just use common sense ;)

____

So what you think?
Author:  WirelessBrain [ Sat May 01, 2010 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Ajit wrote:
How about a "weather" move for dark/ghost types. They could call it Sheer Darkness or Nightfall or Pitch Black.

Cancels all other weather moves. Can be ended immediately by Flash, Charge, Explosion, or Selfdestruct. For 5 turns: chance of flinching doubles, Evasion of Ghost/Dark Pokemon increases 20%, Solarbeam weakens 50%, and the healing power of Morning Sun, Synthesis and Moonlight is decreased from 1/2 to 1/3 of the user's max HP. The effects of Nightfall will last for eight turns if its user is holding Twilight Rock.

____

Idea behind the flash, charge, explosion, and selfdestruct are those are ideally very bright moves that would end the effects of this move. Idea behind flinching is that in the dark your more likely to be startled/scared and therefore flinch. Idea behind ghosts/dark being more evasive... well just use common sense ;)

____

So what you think?


Kudos to you! That's an epic idea. I would love to see that appear in Gen V.

{darkrai}
Author:  AceTrainer [ Sat May 01, 2010 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Ajit wrote:
How about a "weather" move for dark/ghost types. They could call it Sheer Darkness or Nightfall or Pitch Black.

Cancels all other weather moves. Can be ended immediately by Flash, Charge, Explosion, or Selfdestruct. For 5 turns: chance of flinching doubles, Evasion of Ghost/Dark Pokemon increases 20%, Solarbeam weakens 50%, and the healing power of Morning Sun, Synthesis and Moonlight is decreased from 1/2 to 1/3 of the user's max HP. The effects of Nightfall will last for eight turns if its user is holding Twilight Rock.

____

Idea behind the flash, charge, explosion, and selfdestruct are those are ideally very bright moves that would end the effects of this move. Idea behind flinching is that in the dark your more likely to be startled/scared and therefore flinch. Idea behind ghosts/dark being more evasive... well just use common sense ;)

____

So what you think?


Spark? Luster Purge? Fire moves? Aurora Beam? Signal Beam?

The idea's good but how do you draw the line on which light-based moves are weakened or which removes the condition?
Author:  Ajit [ Sat May 01, 2010 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
I was definitely considering having fire to do with it, possibly that a fire type isn't effected accuracy wise because they can light the area themselves, or adding moves, but I just decided to keep it simpler.

I think signal beam and aurora beram would be good additions. Of course this was just a concept idea and of course it won't make it into the game because I suggested it :P

I'd also say in general you have to look at it on a move by move basis. Solar Beam requires the sun as indicated by the fact that on the first turn it says something like "drawing power from the sun", so without the sun obviously this move is screwed. Just depends on each move I suppose.

____

Anyways thanks Darkai-follower and AceTrainer for the reponse :)
Author:  searchman52 [ Tue May 04, 2010 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Okay, well, here goes...

Flareon: Really obvious. He could use a more varied moveset of physical moves, you know?
Wigglytuff: Come on. The evolved form of pretty much Pokemon's second mascot.
Flygon: Bit weird, but I looked at its movesets and they are quickly overshadowed by other Dragons.
Golduck: who doesn't love Psyduck?
Farfetch'd: =D

New Moves:
Something based off the user's weight. Mega slam?
A Fire Blast-ish move for Dark and Ghost. Maybe Psychic. Black Hole, Spectral Blast, Mind Ripper?
And, of course, a signature move for Farfetch'd.
Author:  Lawence Codye [ Tue May 04, 2010 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
I agree with you searchman52, on Flareon kind of, Wigglytuff from personal experience, Flygon not so much, Golduck I disagree & Farfetch'd I kind of agree...

As far as new moves, let's see;

1. Grass Knot, Low Kick are 2 moves that does this already

2. Ghost Types need this but Dark Types don't & Psychic types don't either, there good with the moves they already have imo

3. I agree since it's kind of weak otherwise it seems
Author:  Frost [ Tue May 04, 2010 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
searchman52 wrote:
Wigglytuff: Come on. The evolved form of pretty much Pokemon's second mascot.


Movepool is not Wigglytuff's problem. It learns a bunch of great moves. Unfortunately, other than HP, its stats are not great and it has a blah ability.
Author:  Lawence Codye [ Tue May 04, 2010 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Frost wrote:
Movepool is not Wigglytuff's problem. It learns a bunch of great moves. Unfortunately, other than HP, its stats are not great and it has a blah ability.


This is why I couldn't really use Wigglytuff when I raised on in Leafgreen or any other DS game for that matter as it should have more SPATK since it likes to sing & either more ATK or I don't know...
Author:  rex09 [ Wed May 05, 2010 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
i just have a hard time using normal types in general (arceus does [i]not[i] count). some of them, i don't see much use for. others look cool {tauros} but i still just have a hard time getting around to training them... So, maybe it's not just movepool, but accessibility early on?? i know this sounds kind of dumb, but some people try to just stick with one team through the whole thing, from as early on as possible.
now, pokemon that need better natural (not tm/hm) moves:
Dragonair (sorry, just having issues with the moves on my ss that'll probably be solved once it evolves)
Gyarados (did they take crunch off of it's moveset?? because my leafgreen gyarados learned crunch, but my ss one can't)
Nidoking
Pidgeotto
lol maybe i'm just an incompetent trainer or something, but these are pokemon that i have a hard time making learn useful moves that work cohesively.
Dark types, bugs, and dragons need moves of their own type that are useful. that can be used regularly (i.e. for dragons, not dragon rush, which has low accuracy; or, for that matter, draco meteor, which can really only be used twice before you have to switch out)
Author:  Lawence Codye [ Thu May 06, 2010 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
rex09 wrote:
i just have a hard time using normal types in general (arceus does [i]not[i] count). some of them, i don't see much use for. others look cool {tauros} but i still just have a hard time getting around to training them... So, maybe it's not just movepool, but accessibility early on?? i know this sounds kind of dumb, but some people try to just stick with one team through the whole thing, from as early on as possible.

Well, Tauros is awesome but your right, it needs to be accessable more early on being as it's a Normal Type (has nothing to do with it really...), also that doesn't sound dumb cause I always do this...once I pick a team member it's stuck in my party for the duration of the file no matter how early on it is in the game or how weak it turns out to be...
Author:  searchman52 [ Thu May 06, 2010 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Lawence Codye wrote:
1. Grass Knot, Low Kick are 2 moves that does this already


The user's weight, not the target's weight.

Frost wrote:
Movepool is not Wigglytuff's problem. It learns a bunch of great moves. Unfortunately, other than HP, its stats are not great and it has a blah ability.


Somewhat, in my opinion. But if the Jigglypuff family is so popular that they even popped in Smash, they should get a signature move like Pkachu's Volt Tackle...
Author:  Lawence Codye [ Thu May 06, 2010 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
searchman52 wrote:
The user's weight, not the target's weight.


My bad...didn't read it properly (obviously) so I now say that considering what I said before, I know agree with you on this but god no, don't call it Mega Slam...
Author:  Blastiose_ex [ Thu May 13, 2010 5:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Ajit wrote:
How about a "weather" move for dark/ghost types. They could call it Sheer Darkness or Nightfall or Pitch Black.

Cancels all other weather moves. Can be ended immediately by Flash, Charge, Explosion, or Selfdestruct. For 5 turns: chance of flinching doubles, Evasion of Ghost/Dark Pokemon increases 20%, Solarbeam weakens 50%, and the healing power of Morning Sun, Synthesis and Moonlight is decreased from 1/2 to 1/3 of the user's max HP. The effects of Nightfall will last for eight turns if its user is holding Twilight Rock.

____

Idea behind the flash, charge, explosion, and selfdestruct are those are ideally very bright moves that would end the effects of this move. Idea behind flinching is that in the dark your more likely to be startled/scared and therefore flinch. Idea behind ghosts/dark being more evasive... well just use common sense ;)

____

So what you think?

I think that sounds like an excellent idea. Nightfall would be the coolest name for it. I kind of want them to make the Fog weather condition into a move
Author:  Silver [ Sat May 15, 2010 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
{espeon} could use some serious help besides Psycic and Morning Sun no really good moves

{umbreon} as well only know a limited amount of moves

{flareon} more physical moves to add to its already dangerous attack stat.

{jolteon} Maybe could give him Volt Tackle? or somethin

It seems like all the eevee evolution could use some more moves
Author:  KingErick [ Sat May 15, 2010 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
flareon should learn flare blitz

beedrill, ommastar, parasect, dunsparce, aridadous, and many others need another evolution.
Author:  Lawence Codye [ Sat May 15, 2010 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Silver wrote:
It seems like all the eevee evolution could use some more moves

THANK YOU!...

KingErick wrote:
beedrill, ommastar, parasect, dunsparce, aridadous, and many others need another evolution.

I agree on all counts except Beedrill & Omastar as Beedrill is unable to evolve again & Omastar is a fossil pokemon & they are either pokemon that don't evolve or pokemon that only evolve once...just saying...
Author:  Krisp [ Sun May 16, 2010 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
{flareon} {jolteon} {espeon} {vaporeon} {umbreon} {glaceon} {leafeon}

In my opinion these Pokemon should get better moves. Not so much Vaporeon and Jolteon, but the rest could use a lot of help.
Author:  Mektar [ Sun May 16, 2010 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Nightfall is a cool idea, but it sounds more like a time of day that a type of weather. Call it Eclipse. That sounds way more awesome doesn't it?

Oh yeah, and they should put in an 'Aura Master' move tutor that could teach Pokemon Aura Sphere. Some new Pokemon that could learn it include: Medicham's family, Gardevoir (to screw Gallade), and Mismagius
Author:  Lawence Codye [ Sun May 16, 2010 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pokemon who need better moves in Generation 5
Mektar wrote:
Oh yeah, and they should put in an 'Aura Master' move tutor that could teach Pokemon Aura Sphere. Some new Pokemon that could learn it include: Medicham's family, Gardevoir (to screw Gallade), and Mismagius

Yeah, I want this so badly come 5th...
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