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What is the point?
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Author:  daveshan [ Fri May 08, 2009 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  What is the point?
Fire Red and Leaf Green were made for a reason, we couldn't legitimately get every single pokemon without them. Why remake GSC?

This part is just for the record. That's why the text is so small. I hate GSC. The villians were Diet Team Rocket, the world was dull and uninteresting, the phone was awful, the acorns failed, your rival was nothing and never got a pokemon above 53, and everyone of Lance's pokemon could be beaten by rock slide. I don't want to have to play through that game again just to not be left in the dust with inferior move pools.

Back to the discussion. Is there anything that redeems this? Is there still even one pokemon we can't get legitimately now or with a pokemon event? Is there a missing TM? What is needed from this game?
Author:  Patchy [ Fri May 08, 2009 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Either they're listening to the millions of people who wanted this, or they're hoping to make millions from it.
Author:  Frost [ Fri May 08, 2009 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
People who are too lazy and/or scared and/or stupid to change the batteries in their dead G/S/C carts have been begging for remakes of the games ever since they found out their file was deleted. Also, a lot of current Pokemon fans in Japan weren't even alive when the original games were made ten years ago. Therefore, these remakes are designed to appeal to the young and stupid, with a healthy dose of appealing to nostalgic fans thrown in for good measure.

Seriously, there is no reason for these games but Nintendo being greedy and Gamefreak killing time between now and Generation V. Almost all of the Johto Pokemon are available in DPP. The ones who aren't (the Chikorita, Cyndaquil and Totodile families, the three beasts and Lugia and Ho-oh) can be Pal Parked up from Generation III games. These games won't have Celebi or a different variety of TMs than DPP. And batteries dying is not a good reason to remake a game. If you want to play GSC that badly you can spend $2 on a new battery, $20 or less on a Monster Brain and $5 or less on a screw bit and have brand new GSC games for less than the cost of GHSS.

/beating his dead "GHSS is pointless" horse
Author:  Rhapsody [ Fri May 08, 2009 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Evidently Nintendo/Gamefreak/whoever decides these things figured that there'd be a profit from remaking these games. While I am on the boat of people who think that a GS remake is rather unnecessary, it will probably end up rolling in dough. I don't particularly want to have Johto with DP's mechanics (read: everything that makes getting a "good" Pokemon a nightmare).

I'll probably end up buying SoulSilver or whatever anyway, just to spend money. It'd better have Buena's Password. ;_;

Edit: I should probably make myself a bit clearer. Yes, I am looking forward to these games, but I'm not dying of anticipation. I still believe that they were unnecessary, but need does not mean want. In my opinion, they are unnecessary but not unwelcome. So before you begin telling me that lots of people wanted these games, I know that, I'm not denying it. >_>
Author:  flygon tamer [ Fri May 08, 2009 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
daveshan wrote:
I hate GSC. The villians were Diet Team Rocket, the world was dull and uninteresting, the phone was awful, the acorns failed, your rival was nothing and never got a pokemon above 53, and everyone of Lance's pokemon could be beaten by rock slide. I don't want to have to play through that game again just to not be left in the dust with inferior move pools.


Thats why theres a remake(that and the whole pokemon is a corperation thing.) So they can fix the old problems. Are you too blind to understand that.

And mods:

People actualy WANT this. They wouldn't make money if we didn't. It's not that we're too lazy to swap batteries(I did) it's that we want graphical, sound, gameplay, and storyline updates. I find it hard to believe that it will be a carbon copy of the original games. If it's any least bit better(and it will be if we get to use the new movesets, pokemon ect., witch we will) then it's not about being to lazy to swap a battery, it's about wanting a better version of a good region.
Author:  daveshan [ Fri May 08, 2009 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
flygon tamer wrote:
daveshan wrote:
I hate GSC. The villians were Diet Team Rocket, the world was dull and uninteresting, the phone was awful, the acorns failed, your rival was nothing and never got a pokemon above 53, and everyone of Lance's pokemon could be beaten by rock slide. I don't want to have to play through that game again just to not be left in the dust with inferior move pools.


Thats why theres a remake(that and the whole pokemon is a corperation thing.) So they can fix the old problems. Are you too blind to understand that.

If it's going to be like FRLG, the only problem that's going to change is your rivals maximum level (which will get upped to 63). For the 99.9% of the game that isn't involving your rival, it's going to stay the same.

flygon tamer wrote:

And mods:

People actualy WANT this. They wouldn't make money if we didn't. It's not that we're too lazy to swap batteries(I did) it's that we want graphical, sound, gameplay, and storyline updates. I find it hard to believe that it will be a carbon copy of the original games. If it's any least bit better(and it will be if we get to use the new movesets, pokemon ect., witch we will) then it's not about being to lazy to swap a battery, it's about wanting a better version of a good region.

Why not save this for when it's needed though? Why not keep it on the back burner for when the next gen of Nintendo portable systems can't take in data from the previous gen? Heck, you don't have to wait that much. You could wait for the next gen of systems because it would be ridiculous to have people by the GBA game, transfer to the DS, then transfer to the new one.

I personally still wouldn't like them, but I would recognize them as legitimate games instead of just a blatant corporate greed move.
Author:  flygon tamer [ Fri May 08, 2009 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Who the hell ever said it would be like FRLG and you give FRLG a little (empysis, little) less credit than whats due.

And you could reson that it is needed now anyway, since the new DSI has no GBA slot.
Author:  lordtomato [ Fri May 08, 2009 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
I LOVED GSC. best starters and music. Sure, the storyline was lame, but there were many sidequests, and much room for improvement, which is what they are doing now. I also think it would be fun to play through the GSC world with the dynamics of DPP.

It really isn't that pointless... even if they leave everything the same, the game will be fundamentally different with the new items, pokemon, movesets, tms and attack types.
So yea. I'm looking forward to this.
Author:  daveshan [ Fri May 08, 2009 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
flygon tamer wrote:
Who the hell ever said it would be like FRLG and you give FRLG a little (empysis, little) less credit than whats due.

You mean "Who the hell would base predictions of a work that is similar to a work the same group did in the past on said work in the past?"

Also, I have nothing but respect for FRLG. RB were great games and there was a good reason for the remake.

flygon tamer wrote:
And you could reson that it is needed now anyway, since the new DSI has no GBA slot.


Now, see? THAT is a good reason. It still should have waited since a little bit of trading could do the trick.
Author:  Dark Muk [ Fri May 08, 2009 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
As far as I know, without trading online, there was no way to get all the Gen2 Pokemon onto your DPP games, without having another console.

I am interested in playing Gen2 with the Gen4 dynamic. I do admit this is totally a cash-grab, but it's all good. People want it, why not?
Author:  daveshan [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Krisp wrote:
So where was all this bitching and whining when they announced not only a sequel to the crappy Mystery Dungeon but, RANGER also? I didn't have any interest in any of the new spin off games and I didn't even whine nearly as much as some of you are.

If you don't want it, don't play it. It's that simple. I didn't start a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw fest when I found out about all the PMD/Ranger games, I simply just didn't play them.


As soon as PMD and Ranger came out, you knew they were greed-motivated spinoffs. The only thing I was ever pissed about was that you had to play Ranger to get Manphy and Phione. Then the event came and I was satisfied.

If I don't play it, I'll probably get stuck missing out on superior movepools. If the movepools don't change that much, I just won't buy them.

Krisp wrote:

Um...there's a good reason for a GSC remake too. You can't get Suicune, Entei, Raikou, Celebi, Chikorita, Cyndaquil, or Totodile, Lugia, or Ho-Oh in D/P. Some people don't want to buy the extremely crappy Colosseum (regretfully I did) or XD games. Also, some people don't OWN the FR/LG games either. You can't blame people for not wanting to purchase 350823945723952063 games to own every single Pokemon. And guys, you can stop calling everyone who abandoned their GSC cartridges because they don't save anymore idiots. Not everyone KNOWS you can change the battery; hell, I didn't even know until I decided to open my game cartridge randomly because I got pissy that it didn't save anymore and I saw that battery. I tried googling for a battery changing tutorial and could only find one anyway.


Three dogs come from the Kanto remakes. Celebi comes from the several Nintendo events that have been for it. Jhoto starters come from Emerald. Ho-oh and Lugia also come from events. Legal ways to get every single pokemon.

You do realize that, when you tell people not to expect others to buy 350823945723952063 games, that's reason that they shouldn't buy HG/German War Criminals (SS :p )

How long did it take you to find said tutorial? Also, if it's Nintendo's fault for the battery, I will gladly accept this game with open arms if they allow everyone who has a defunct G, S, or C to trade it in for a free remake.

Krisp wrote:

Quote:
RB were great games


Not sure if you realize this or not, but your opinion is not the only opinion in the world, and shouldn't be a reason why GSC doesn't deserve a remake.
If you missed all the other stuff I said: We needed FRLG because, in gen 3, you couldn't legitimately fill the pokedex without them.
Author:  shinashu taji [ Sat May 09, 2009 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Krisp wrote:
Speaking of repeatably restarting your game, I bet everyone restarted their FR/LG games twice to get the legendary beasts, amirite??!


Guilty as charged on that one.

As for events, not everyone can make it to events. I know I can't make it to every fricking Toys "R" Us event. I sure as hell couldn't make to the 10th anniversary events, I know I couldn't get to the Mystic Ticket event. So for all the people saying that you can get all the legendaries like that through events. No, not everyone can do such a task.

As the mod R_R said. If you are excited about the release of GHSS and plan on buying it, good for you.

If you aren't looking forward to it at all and don't plan on buying it, good for you.

If you acknowledge that these games weren't necessary but aren't unwelcome, excellent.

If you want to discuss your thoughts on the future release, good for you.

If someone posts an opinion contrary to how you feel, you do not have the right to turn a conversation into an opinion-based debate. End of story.


As for that last question Krisp. No we don't need a reason for the pokemon games to exists. The spin off games are there simply to make money off the portion of the fanbase that likes said games (I personally do not like them).

So people just stop your bitching about this and that and the whole nine yards about the game and completing the pokedex through events and such. Also I do plan to buy HeartGold because I can and liked the second generation of games.
Author:  Cactuar [ Sat May 09, 2009 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
The point? Well, millions of people wanted this.
Author:  daveshan [ Sat May 09, 2009 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Krisp wrote:
Again, why don't you be realistic? Did you seriously complete the Emerald Pokedex once, get Chikorita, restart and complete it again, get Cyndaquil, then restart and complete it again for Totodile? Yeah, right. Nobody has time for THAT except Rai...no I won't say it. Speaking of repeatably restarting your game, I bet everyone restarted their FR/LG games twice to get the legendary beasts, amirite??!
No, you didn't. Instead, you went out and found a friend who got the other starter, traded, bred, and traded back. As for the legendary beasts, you looked around for someone who didn't want the ones you didn't have and traded for them. It's really easy to do now with the GTC. All you have to do is have someone trade and trade back so you have it in your pokedex.

Trading between friends is a key point of the game. NPCs mention that very fact.

Krisp wrote:

Oh and by the several Nintendo events, you mean the 10th Anniversary ones that were held in maybe 20 locations in the US three years ago? I'm sure plenty of people made it to those! So how many of you guys got that Celebi again? Let's not even mention how many people got the Mystic Ticket in 2004-2005 through Pokemon Rocks America. (in b4 DatVu)


That's why their are online communities. We can ask a friend on the forum to trade and trade back so we have a [legendary] in our pokedex, then go to the GTC and trade for one for ourselves.

A lot of the excuses I hear for why this should happen can be solved by making friends and trading with them. Heck, to prove my point, I'll offer up my completely legit suicune to you, Krisp, in exchange for a legit entei or raikou.

Krisp wrote:

Besides arguing the potential issues of completing your Pokedex as mentioned above, I'll ask you another question: do we really need a REASON for a Pokemon game to exist? If we do, then why does Pokemon Mystery Dungeon/Trozei/Snap/other spin offs exist? I don't hear any pissing and moaning when a sequel or spin off is announced for other video game series, so why do I hear it from the Pokemon fanbase?
daveshan wrote:

As soon as PMD and Ranger came out, you knew they were greed-motivated spinoffs. The only thing I was ever pissed about was that you had to play Ranger to get Manphy and Phione. Then the event came and I was satisfied.
Author:  Pokexa [ Sat May 09, 2009 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Cactuar wrote:
The point? Well, millions of people wanted this.

Exactly. While I personally said that it may seem a rip-off in another thread it is still a game I have wanted. To me it's almost an excuse to play the game again but in a much better layout. It will bring the excellent game up to par with the graphics and features of the recent games.
Author:  MasonTheChef [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Pokexa wrote:
Cactuar wrote:
The point? Well, millions of people wanted this.

Exactly. While I personally said that it may seem a rip-off in another thread it is still a game I have wanted. To me it's almost an excuse to play the game again but in a much better layout. It will bring the excellent game up to par with the graphics and features of the recent games.



Yeah, at worst this brings G/S up to the IV/EV and TM system that was implemented in 3rd gen.
Author:  Frost [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
MasterChef wrote:
Yeah, at worst this brings G/S up to the IV/EV system that was implemented in 3rd gen.


This is a very, very, very bad thing in terms of enjoying the in-game portion.
Author:  MasonTheChef [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Frost wrote:
MasterChef wrote:
Yeah, at worst this brings G/S up to the IV/EV system that was implemented in 3rd gen.


This is a very, very, very bad thing in terms of enjoying the in-game portion.



How so? As far as competitive battling goes it's good, and that's how I roll in pokemon.
Author:  EvilPenguin [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
MasterChef wrote:
Frost wrote:
MasterChef wrote:
Yeah, at worst this brings G/S up to the IV/EV system that was implemented in 3rd gen.


This is a very, very, very bad thing in terms of enjoying the in-game portion.



How so? As far as competitive battling goes it's good, and that's how I roll in pokemon.


Frost wrote:
This is a very, very, very bad thing in terms of enjoying the in-game portion.
Author:  Frost [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
MasterChef wrote:
How so? As far as competitive battling goes it's good, and that's how I roll in pokemon.

I wasn't talking about the competitive battling aspect of Pokemon. I fully admit that EVs and natures add an extra layer of strategy to competitive battles but, even so, IVs are still unnecessary and EVs/natures are still nothing more than a pain in the ass unless you play on Shoddy or other forms of emulation.

I just cannot enjoy the in-game portion when I KNOW damn well that my Pokemon will have horrible natures, EV spreads, IV spreads and abilities if I choose to "ignore" these in-game mechanics. People always say "Oh, just don't pay attention to that stuff so you can enjoy the in-game aspect" but somebody with OCD such as myself just CAN'T DO THAT. So that's why I ended up buying an Action Replay to bypass all of that nonsense but, of course, that only allows people to call me a cheater instead. /rolleyes
Author:  MasonTheChef [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Frost wrote:
MasterChef wrote:
How so? As far as competitive battling goes it's good, and that's how I roll in pokemon.


I wasn't talking about the competitive battling aspect of Pokemon.

I just cannot enjoy the in-game portion when I KNOW damn well that my Pokemon will have horrible natures, EV spreads, IV spreads and abilities if I choose to "ignore" these in-game mechanics. People always say "Oh, just don't pay attention to that stuff so you can enjoy the in-game aspect" but somebody with OCD such as myself just CAN'T DO THAT. So that's why I ended up buying an Action Replay to bypass all of that nonsense but, of course, that only allows people to call me a cheater instead. /rolleyes



I can agree with that, I'm quite OCD about it in-game as well...
Author:  flygon tamer [ Sat May 09, 2009 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
well thats the kind of stuff I usualy get Anal about, but oddly enough, I'm pretty lax about that stuff in pokemon. And I apologise again frost for insulting you in any way.
Author:  daveshan [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Frost wrote:
MasterChef wrote:
How so? As far as competitive battling goes it's good, and that's how I roll in pokemon.

I wasn't talking about the competitive battling aspect of Pokemon. I fully admit that EVs and natures add an extra layer of strategy to competitive battles but, even so, IVs are still unnecessary and EVs/natures are still nothing more than a pain in the ass unless you play on Shoddy or other forms of emulation.

I just cannot enjoy the in-game portion when I KNOW damn well that my Pokemon will have horrible natures, EV spreads, IV spreads and abilities if I choose to "ignore" these in-game mechanics. People always say "Oh, just don't pay attention to that stuff so you can enjoy the in-game aspect" but somebody with OCD such as myself just CAN'T DO THAT. So that's why I ended up buying an Action Replay to bypass all of that nonsense but, of course, that only allows people to call me a cheater instead. /rolleyes


Usually, if you find a shiny of any pokemon, you can find someone on serebii or smogon who will trade a proper nature, best IV's, and EV-trained pokemon of your choosing for it.

Just a thought.
Author:  AEP: Master Trainer [ Sun May 10, 2009 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
Nothing personal against Nintendo, but I can only see two possible reasons for this (and both of them are probably accurate)...

1) Cash cow. Pokemon is probably their most successful franchise of the last 20 years, and they want to ride this money roller coaster as long as possible, because they're making money to do whatever else they want when they're done with all of this.

2) Time passer. Remaking GSC (without the C, I'm assuming) will give them even more time to find out what works and doesn't, perfect the art of making games for the DS as far as Pokemon goes, and to ensure that when they come out with Generation V (fingers crossed on that one) it will be the best (and figuratively, the last). This is the best way to give Pokemon fans something to play so they don't complain on the delay of the next generation, because face it, when we don't have new games to play, all Pokemon die-hard fans (which I count myself among that number) will fuss because there's nothing new to play. This is that something new to discuss, play, fight, and rate, etc. All of the things that sites like these thrive on would be other games like this, and a perfect opportunity to do more of the same is coming in HGSS.

BTW, I believe the German "bad guys" were the Gestapo, not the SS. I believe that was Russia more than anything else.

(But don't quote me on that!)

AEPMT :D :) :wink: :mrgreen: :P
Author:  pokedexator [ Sat May 16, 2009 4:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the point?
maybe they made a remake 'cuz it's hard to find where you can buy gbc console or gsc games, so now we will can to play SS/HG on NDS or NDSi
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