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 Burn vs. Bad Poison 
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Bug Catcher
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i was wondering which one is better, i'm not sure if my Dusknoir should have will-o-wisp or toxic
how much damage does burn do each turn and doe sit lower special attack too?

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:46 am
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Will-O-Wisp is useful as Dusknoir is typically used as a Physical wall (or at least Dusclops was in 3rd gen). Burn does 1/8 per turn; Toxic starts at 1/16 but doubles each turn.

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:47 am
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so does it lower special attack too?

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:52 am
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Fire lowers attack....................................
....................................
.................................................
...................i think..............


Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:54 am
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Burn lowers Atk, yes, but I don't think it lowers SpA.

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:55 am
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Toxic formula is:
1/16 + 1/16 per turn.
Basically it does 1/16, then 2/16 (1/8), then 3/16...

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:03 am
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thekiller0703 wrote:
Toxic formula is:
1/16 + 1/16 per turn.
Basically it does 1/16, then 2/16 (1/8), then 3/16...

No, it goes on this formula:
1/16-2/16-4/16-8/16-16/16
But actually, I have a feeling that I'm wrong, but I know you're wrong, Killer, I think.

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:09 am
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Treeckoluv wrote:
No, it goes on this formula:
1/16-2/16-4/16-8/16-16/16
But actually, I have a feeling that I'm wrong, but I know you're wrong, Killer, I think.


That formula is wrong too. If Bad Poison worked like that, Pokemon would get KO'ed in 5 turns (or less if the opponent attacks).

I think theKiller is correct.


Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:25 am
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Right, but it looks like more because it adds up.
Trust me; Say you have a guy holding lefties and has 160 HP. First turn w/ bad posion, hurt by 10, lefties heals 10. Then:
P- 140
L-150
P-120
L-130
P-90
L-100
P-50
L-60
P-0

The P/L shows how much HP they have after Poision/Leftovers.

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:51 am
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That looks right, toxic is surprisingly effective.

I think will-o-wisp is better if you want the dusknoir to be countering physical-attacking opponents, and toxic for others. On the other hand, WoW is pretty predictable on it.

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:57 am
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thekiller0703 wrote:
Toxic formula is:
1/16 + 1/16 per turn.
Basically it does 1/16, then 2/16 (1/8), then 3/16...

1/16? I've found it to be more like 1/10 + 1/10 each turn, because I've faced a ton of Pokemon with this (mostly Milotic and Blissey), and they all went down within about 10 turns, despite the amount of recovery moves they used.

Personally I believe you should go with Toxic, as while Burn deals damage and lowers Atk (Special Sweepers can evade that), the Toxic damage all adds up, as a Pokemon inflicted with Toxic, after several turns, will go from all its HP to none of it in just one blow. Good things come to those who wait.

- DNA

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:57 am
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Go with WoW. Steel is sometimes a problem for Toxic, plus the burns stay as potently damaging, even if they switch out and back.

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:09 am
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thekiller0703 wrote:
Right, but it looks like more because it adds up.
Trust me; Say you have a guy holding lefties and has 160 HP. First turn w/ bad posion, hurt by 10, lefties heals 10. Then:
P- 140
L-150
P-120
L-130
P-90
L-100
P-50
L-60
P-0

The P/L shows how much HP they have after Poision/Leftovers.


Um, that's fainting in five turns, as a matter of fact.

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:32 am
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dunsparce wrote:
thekiller0703 wrote:
Right, but it looks like more because it adds up.
Trust me; Say you have a guy holding lefties and has 160 HP. First turn w/ bad posion, hurt by 10, lefties heals 10. Then:
P- 140
L-150
P-120
L-130
P-90
L-100
P-50
L-60
P-0

The P/L shows how much HP they have after Poision/Leftovers.


Um, that's fainting in five turns, as a matter of fact.


Not to buurst your bubble or anything, but that's 6 turns...
He wrote the first turn before the list

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:08 pm
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Thanks for pointing that out.
My point was that I found that out because on the first turn it was the same, healing/damage, next turn hurt the same as anti-leftovers (as if lefties hurt you), etc.

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:14 pm
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here is the definititive answer. im not adding anything new here, just pointing out the correct answer from above.

toxic does 1/16 damage on the first turn. then 2/16, then 3/16, 4/16 etc. however, and i dont think anyone has pointed this out yet, once it has reached 8/16 (ie 1/2) it keeps doing that from then on. i remember getting a milotic badly poisoned on the colosseum challenges. it kept using recover which got back exactly the damage toxic was doing - i just had to wait 4-5 turns until confusion kicked in (ahhhh trusty umbreon) and then it was all over.

as for dusknoir, i think will-o-wisp is better, even though its predictable. still, switching a physical wall in to counter a physical sweeper is predictable right? the reason i think w-o-w, is that it not only hurts the opponent, but it reduces their capability to hurt your team. a salamence who has used dragon dance twice and gets badly poisoned can still kill 3-4 pokes before it finally succumbs to the poison. speaking of predictable, they will probably bring in blissey to cure the poison/burn anyway.....

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:22 pm
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Instead of WoW and Toxic on Dusknoir, I would put Fire Punch, seeing as how it deals damage and has the Burn possibility.


Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:47 pm
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but the point is to ACTUALLY burn them. not hope for the 10% chance.

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Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:37 am
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Let's make this Dusknoir the way small children do :P

Go out and catch the first Duskull you find. Let's assume it's mild.

Train it against wild Pokemon in the Battle Zone, with no regard for EVs.

Give it only moves it learns through level up.

You end up with this:

Dusknoir
Mild @ Spell Tag
Shadow Punch
Shadow Ball
Nightshade
Shadow Sneak

Woot! =)

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Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:10 am
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Bobsymalone wrote:
Let's make this Dusknoir the way small children do :P


that;s the way i used to train all my pokes... before i discovered Psypokes!

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Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:05 am
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Bobsymalone wrote:
Let's make this Dusknoir the way small children do :P

[sarcasm] Great idea...you'll be using it in battle? :) [/sarcasm]

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Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:11 pm
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