How awesome would Hyper Beam be on Porygon Z with adaptability?

150 + 150 = 300 Base Attack!

Then you think about the fact that he has 135 Special Attack!

2 Tri Attacks would do more damage. And Hyper Beam is really bad due to the recharge. So the 2 Tri Attacks would be more worth it.

But then you'd have to recharge the next turn, it might miss, and some Pokemon can survive that.

Good idea in theory, but not in reality.

my porygon z has adapdability

Ok allow me to explain what so many people fail to se about Porygon-Z. Porygon is often opted in for the fact it can BoltBeam and get a Ghost attack of Shadow Ball.

With Life orb all of your attacks become more powerful, if thats the item you want. I chose it because the HP on that poke isnt all that great anyways and the new attack power behind it becomes amazing.

Now while Tri-Attack would do more in two turns, people still fail at seeing why Hyper Beam is BETTER. When you have BoltBeam on a poke, chances are you are not going to be using you Normal Type attack very often seeing as it isn't super effective against Anything. So people put hyper beam on there for one reason and one reason alone. OHKO.

Here is the math on a HB that my Porygon-Z can release. Again, I have a perfect 31 IV Spc Atk and 252 EVs invested into it as well as it is Modest giving it a maximum Spc Atk of 405.

Another thing, I have noticed that math has priority. STAB, ABILITY, then ITEM in case anyone cared.

Hyper Beam = 150 Base Power

150 x 1.5 (STAB) = 225

225 x 1.5 (Adaptability) = 337.5, Here you must round up to 338

338 x 1.3 (Life Orb) = 439.4, here you must round down to 439

439 (Move Base Power) + 405 (Pokemon Base Power) = 844 Base Power on one attack. Tell me anything that can survive that without being Steel or having a Focus Sash. In my opinion it is the best OHKO in the game and can be used right when you are about to fain. Tri Attack has a max of 639.

Now while this Attack does still do a lot and can attack next turn, you have to hope you live until next turn. My porygon sometimes just goes out to take out huge walls I can't let get setup like Snorlax and such. I have had BOTH moves and find HB to just be the better choice seeing as I never use tri attack to get a OHKO and never use it to sweep either.

thats right. there are a small number of times hyper beam is good. if youre fast and cant take a hit then you can at least take something down before you go. or if youre slow and cant take two hits. its a bit of a kamikaze mission, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made. this doesnt mean everyone should go and put hyperbeam/giga-impact on all their pokes. actually, no, you SHOULD. and then give me a battle

as for the numbers, i was of the impression that adaptability means that the STAB bonus is x2 rather than you multiply by 1.5 twice.

so it should be

150 x 2 = 300 (STAB)
300 x 1.3 = 390 (life orb)

and i dont think you are supposed to just add 390 base power to the base 405 special attack stat. there is a more complicated equation which determines how much damage a move does:

Damage = ((((2 * Level / 5 + 2) * AttackStat * AttackPower / DefenseStat) / 50) + 2) * STAB * Weakness/Resistance * RandomNumber / 100

While I have np idea what the equation is at the bottom, that is why you are a math professor. Although your math is very good, you have no idea about the gaming sequence called stacking. Stacking is most commonly referred to in the TCG known as Magic the Gathering. Stacking refers to Priority and Resolve.

Move Power takes first priority in a stack and is added onto in accordance of prepertaion, here let me give you an example ok.

This is a stack,

Move power, resolve

STAB to move, resolve = this means the move power now has a higher base

Ability, resolve | ando so on and so forth

The only exception is hindering, such things can be noted as the ability Intimidate and moves like Growl. They take priority right onto the base power of the poke which is totalled after the move base. I am sure this is correct. I also believe pokemon is pretty much Add and Subtract, with few exceptions noted in Cuddles insane equation. An example of this would be Blissey and Self Destruct. In total Self Destruct halves the Def, this means multiply the move by two. Now at 500 it does not add on to the Atk stat of the poke, I believe, and yet can KO a 700 HP blissey with ease. If it does add to the base stat of the poke that would make sense seeing as most pokes have 200 Atk power.

This can be seen virtually everywhere, I am 99% sure my math in this is correct and have had multiple time where it has seemed to be. Though I am not a mathmatician this is 2nd grade stuff.

Damage = ((((2 * Level / 5 + 2) * AttackStat * AttackPower / DefenseStat) / 50) + 2) * STAB * Weakness/Resistance * RandomNumber / 100

^that seems like above and beyond for a video game statistic.

It's a toss up.

Use an 80 base damage attack one turn and then get OHKO'd right after because you left them alive, or use a 150 base damage attack on that turn instead, OHKO the opponent, and then ket OHKO'd yourself by whatever they bring out next while you recharge.

PorygonZ is great in theory but basically gets trumped by too many of today's common OU's. 85 base HP, 70 and 75 base defenses, and 90 base speed. Since pretty much all EV spreads are going to be maxed Special Attack and Speed, it will go down in one hit most of the time. Garchomp, Weavile, Lucario, Alakazam and many more outrun it and have strong enough attacks to kill it easily. Now if you are running Choice Scarf that's a different story, but then the problem with that is that you need to switch often and it can be hard to find an opening to come back into play when you're trying to BoltBeam with such a frail Pokemon.

WOW ARE YOU A COMPLETE IDIOT?

How do you not use a STAB move to sweep? You have no idea what you're talking about bad kid so SILENCE.

KILL YOURSELF

dud pillage chill out its just a forum. tri attack may do loads of damage but i think hyper beam is a better choice because it pretty much automatically kills the poke. Another thing, i battled classick before and its not like he uses hyper beam everyturn. Porygon-Z is a bolt beamer meaning it can be supereffective to many types. yes it may be a fragile pokemon but the fact is you dont keep him in the whole battle. you use him against tanks and walls. when someone switches in a faster sweeper such as "Garchomp, Weavile, Lucario, Alakazam" as Case says you switch to your tank. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. the final line on Porygon-Z is its a fairly quick and very strong special sweeper with vast moveset. You do damage with it and hope you kill him so you wont have to take a hit.

if you want to know what i now do with mine here it is.

Porygon-Z@focus sash
Modest nature/ adaptability
Tri attack
ice beam
thunderbolt
hyperbeam

you may ask why i have two normal attacks? well with a nature like adaptibility stab is a great, great thing.

First turn: hyper beam-99% chance of killing opponant.
Second turn: recharge and get slammed by some other poke hold on cause of sash :]
Third turn: switch out to a pokemon capable of defeating the one out.

eventually switch it back in and boltbeam if supereffective if not tri attack sweep

maybe, maybe not. Can it OHKO a special wall, like Blissey? No. And it just gives your opponent a free turn to set up anyway.

idk about you but i obviously wouldnt use a porygon z against blissey you simply switch out against pokemon like that. i calculated that a hyperbeam from a fully sp.atk. ev trained adaptibilty life orb porygon z would do 406 damage on a fully sp.def. ev trained blissey. although it doesnt kill the damn thing think about how ridiculously high its hp is a whopping 714. i was surprized by this so i calculated on a defense from deoxys an uber without a doubt. A hyperbeam from a fully sp.atk. ev trained adaptibilty life orb porygon z would do a whopping 527 damage on a fully hp and sp.defense ev trained deoxys. it would die without a doubt. in conclusion its pretty safe to say it can kill anything except a fully ev sp.def. and hp trained blissey. thank you.

edit: i apologize. it would not be about to kill a regice that is fully sp.def. and hp trained. it would leave it with about 100 hp.

there are also ghosts, which kinda ruin normal type moves. however, if you use hyperbeam and a ghost switches in, it wont affect the ghost, and therefore you dont need to recharge.

and the equation isnt so complicated - it looks better if you write it out properly (ie with fractions etc). i got it off serebi i think. there used to be a nice explanation of it on wikipedia, but i cant seem to find it at the moment. but basically what it means is this. assume both pokemon are level 100. then to work out the damage of a move, you APPROXIMATELY:

1) you take the power of the move (150) in this case,
2) multiply by A/D, where A is the attack or special attack stat of the attacker (whichever is relevent to the move - special attack in this case), and D is the defense or special defense stat of the defender, (this explains why pokemon with higher attack do more damage, and why pokemon with higher defense receive less damange),
3) multiply by a STAB factor (1 if the move doesnt match one of the attackers types, 1.5 if it does),
4) multpliy by a weakness/resistence factor (either 4,2,1,.5,.25,0) depending on whether the move is weak, resistent, immune to the attack.

my understanding is that the ability adaptability simply changes the "1.5" in point 3 above to "2", so that moves with the same type do double damage instead of 1.5x damage.

i also understand that when you have an item like choice band / life orb, in the mind of the computer, it effectively raises the attack and/or special attack stat, although making the user suffer the consequences (only using one move in the case of choice items, or suffering recoil in the case of life orb). i know when i use netbattle, it says my choice-banded dugtrio's attack is almost 400.

to explain what i meant by "approximately" above.....

in reality, the factors (2 * Level / 5 + 2) and 50 mean that the amount of damage done is roughly 84% of the number worked out in the above calculation. also, there is a random multiplier in the formula which means that once the damage is calculated, it will do anything from 85% to 100% of that number. this explains the annying phenomenon of where your first hit gets your enemy to less than half their max hp, but your next hit doesnt finish them off.

also, the second "+2" means that there is also a random number added at the end which is at most about 10hp.

by the way, i used the damage calculator to see how much damage a porygon-Z can do to a blissey. i used my blissey as an example (sp def boosting nature, but no sp def EVs). on average, hyperbeam from a porygon-Z with adaptability will do 405hp damage. i guess thats enough time to use thunderwave on the recharge turn, then softboiled, then use seismic toss / softboiled alternately, hoping there is no critical hit. thats if the porygon-Z stays in. still, i cant see many special sweepers doing more damage to a blissey than that......

EDIT: and about the stacking thing. because all those factors are multiplied, it would make no difference in which order they were multiplied in. eg earthquake from a choice-band salamence on a magneton. lets work it out in a few different ways:

base power = 100
x 4 (super-effective) = 400
x1.5 (choice band) = 600

or

base power = 100
x 1.5 (choice band) = 150
x 4 (super-effective) = 600

same thing.

EDIT AGAIN: classick - i would be willing to clone my blissey and enter a battle with you with 6 of my blisseys against your porygon-Z and let them take as many hyperbeams as you feel like, just to see how much damage it can do. seriously, im really curious now!!

THIRD EDIT: i dont think it could kill a shuckle. i think it would do a max of 105 against shuckle with max IVs/EVs and sp def boosting nature. but thats because its not very effective. a critical hit would do it though. (and i only calculate that it will do 270 against a deoxys. )

good point there cuddles. as far as a special sweeper against blissey hower i think that porygon-z would be the best bet. but who in their right mind would use any special sweeper on blissey.

exactly i think we are of like minds.

but..... if the blissey has just KO'ed someone else, and is sitting at about 50% health, its a golden opportunity to send out the porygon-Z and either finish it off, or dare them to send something else out.

still youre right, a blissey kinda puts the end to most special sweepers' fun.

but....... i had this amazing loss on the wifi battle tower the other day that almost made me scream (i was on the bus). this will sound like complete rubbish, but it is actually true.

i had KO'ed the usual garchomp opener and then they sent out a togekiss. my skarmory was in at the time, so i sent out my blissey. togekiss used flamethrower. next turn it used thunderwave, and i couldnt move because of paralysis (i was going to use thunderwave myself). the next EIGHT turns i couldnt move - it was using air slash repeatedly and it went like this: flinch, para, para, para, flinch, flinch, flinch, flinch. by this stage i was about 30% hp and madly trying to use softboiled. so i figured i would have to switch in my skarmory again knowing that flying wouldnt be very effective. so i did, air slash did about 70% and i switch blissey back in. flamethrower got a critical hit, and burned me. i knew i could survive one more (non-critical) air slash, but of course it made me flinch, and blissey was KO'ed next turn. then it polished off my skarmory and that was it! it was about the 5th or 6th battle in rank 3 and ive never made it to rank 4 yet. it was just a weird experiment to try skarm-bliss. skarm is good to get past the ever-popular garchomp, but i think i might put counter on my blissey.

Ok well most of you didn't read what I said correctly. I was giving an example of Explosion against Blissey, not Poryfon-Z. I'd expect a little more credit than that being an experienced battler I know darn well not to put a Pory against a Blissey...

As for your math, I really don't know. I see how the EQ worked out but you I am nearly sure its in a stacking measure they I have never broken down the ROM to find out. I may do so just to see.

Pillage, it seems to me you are bad at life. I would probably beat you at this game and any other for that matter. You are probably 12, fat, and read at a third grade level. I have a Pory and a Starmie, and I find myself using BoltBeam far more often than my STABbed Surf.

All I know is that we are off topic, I voted for HB. Pillage is an idiot as agreed by most people that have had to suffer him. And that Cuddles is too good at complicated math.

EDIT: Cuddles response to the Multiplication, you didnt use the same factors. If you look you will plainly see I never calculated Effectiveness at all. Normal isnt effective against anything or it would have been STACKED into the equation. Again I see your point but still think that is wrong.

Sion9, DUH. I would not use that against any form of special wall. If the move misses or doesnt hit for any reason at al (ghost, acc, confusion) then you do not need to recharge..

Pillage, again you never contribute anything constructive thus my reasoning for your stupidity.

I still stick with HB, if any of you had one and knew how I use it you would understand. Therefore I am accepting challenges from anyone thingking they can handle it.

Oh very cute kid, very cute and mature. It's fun to have internet anonymity huh!?

Lets all clap for the "cool" kid on the Pokemon forum!

Lol you scream for attention don't you. Your such a nerd, you use halo talk on a forum. You call me kid your probably 20 but have the maturity of a 5 year old making you the kid. Now shut up, if you have anything else to say PM me smart kid. 80% of your posts are idiotic spam.

Oh no! I'm the nerd crying for attention but you follow me around these forums calling me out. Get a life child.

Ok well you pretty much fail at life. Here let me explain.

1) You are an idiot and I mean that in the most sincere way possible. You are illiterate and have nothing constructive to post, ever. If you don't believe me look at your status, it's self-explanitory.

2) You can't read, I said PM me if you had anything else to say yet you crave attention so much you must post again. This is why I am being the bigger man by trying to PM you. I realise now I can't because you are on Probation, again because you = Fail.

3) Forum stalker, that really is interesting. I believe I have posted in a grand total of TWO topics that were cursed to bear your idiotism in them. Together with this spam we have ruined both of them.

4) You are so childish the way you act, therefore I will now refer to you as kid. If you could do or say anything responsibly we wouldn't be having this problem.

5) Again, just shut up. The quieter you are the more intelligent you sound.

6) Be sure to keep your words soft and sweet just in case you have to eat them later on.

7) I play Halo a lot too, I hear and say things like that all the time but I try to keep it there as well. Saying BK here is pretty much just a show of your limitless vocabulary...

Now watch you respond to this with something completely idiotic to say... I recommend you be a good little boy, get off that probation, and then take the time to PM bad kid. BTW I am done replying to you, it seems everytime I do so my IQ drops. If I "call you out" I am simply showing others how stupid you are and offering evidence as well.

- ClassicK

P.S. - Sorry splinter, this topic pretty much went to he** seeing as I and this other idiot have different ideas on intelligence.

You're right... I am so sorry for my behaviour.

The truth is, I love you and I always will. Please forgive me.

Charly: Alrighty then, this topic may continue now.

ill tell you what, he may be an idiot, but he's funny sometimes.

"i love you" - that was good - lol!!

back on topic, im not sure how i missed explosion. and when i said effectiveness factor, of course thats equal to 1 for normal type moves unless youre attacking a ghost...

Heh.. I love you all. Yeah ok whatever Moderator edited my posts has a very biased opinion but w/e.

AAAAAAnyays back to the topic.... HYPER BEAM IS BAD ON PORYGON-Z OR AN POKEMON FOR THAT MATTER.

I actually agree with those who have posted above. Hyper Beam is an awesome last resort move. If both you and your opponent are down to your last Pokemon, he has a Snorlax, just over half his HP left, and your little PZ is down to the red, of course you'd use your strongest move and hope for the best! While this may not happen too often, and PZ might be too frail to be able to wait helpless for a turn, its last turn attacks like Hyper Beam that can decide a battle.