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 Creative Movesets *Announcement over DP: see first post* 
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Gym Leader
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Heh, I'd prefer those days off over the internet problems I've had lately and being overtasked. :P Anyway, about the Pokemon:

Quagsire: Physical Sweeping isn't a very abnormal idea, however I'm not quite sure how much Choice Band would even affect that. By the way, you can just search the Kanto Revisited forum for Quagsire and just read the ones from Creative Movesets.

Nidoking: A big problem with Nidoking is that even with all those EVs and the Nature you put into Special Defense, you're very vulnerable to the ever-common Surf, which usually comes STABed and is even further multiplied by Rain Dance. A second opinion would help out the decision though.

Kangaskhan: No, that isn't a Tank; daveshan's right about it. Either way no, I doubt that it would work very well. Well, if it would work.

Tropius: Although it can be expected with a drainer or similar thing, it's not like the opponent would just leave a Pokemon in there to let it faint and then go to a resistant Pokemon. They'll just switch then. This type of thing is excellent if you receive a BPed Mean Look on a certain Pokemon or if it's the last one, but in normal battle, no, the type of strategy just doesn't work all that well. Now, when you fully compare this to Ludicolo, you can tell why, when, and how these things work. Anyway, I don't feel like writing everything about it now, so just wait for a second opinion in the mean time.

Persian: I doubt that it will survive very long at all anyway, but I guess it's worth a shot when there's the time.

By the way, that 'time' will probably have to wait another week, and then I'll be on much more frequently. Second opinions for Tropius and Nidoking.

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Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:05 pm
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Tropius has very slightly worse off defensive stats when compared to Ludicolo, and has more weaknesses. It would be better if Chlorophyll works like Rain Dish, but unfortunately it does not. However, I wouldn't mind if the idea is tested. It just might work, but don't be too optimistic :P

However, it's a no for Nidoking. Nidoking's weaknesses are easily overcome by Surf and other common moves, like tiger10x said. If only it could learn Calm Mind, then it might work.

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Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:13 am
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Pokemon Master
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What happened with my Jynx?

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Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:25 am
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Lite Four
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It's already in the Test List. Anything else will have to wait.

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Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:32 am
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Okay, I am now officially announcing that I am about to start finishing all of the testing that I've got to do on the test list. Yes, I have started; no, I didn't do much. I believe I was at a good start, but I don't remember. But that's going to change over the next two months. Now I'm actually going to do stuff! :P

Update: Results!

Mantine: The facts about Mud Sport weakening an Electric attack so that it would no long cause Mantine to faint is true, although I didn't doubt it. However, with Mantine's Speed, it is usually slower than a common sweeper or Electric Pokemon that uses Thunderbolt. This would usually result in forcing a switch out for Mantine. I never found it to be much use to me in most of my battles and could rarely find a good time to switch it in for something. Even though I usually avoid doing this while I am testing, it just didn't work out that way this time. Either way, I just didn't to find it be all that effective.

Now, the reason for me doing Jynx before Walrein was mainly because I could test Mantine and Jynx at the same time more easily than Mantine and Walrein. If I did the latter, I would have had four Water types on my team. Yes, I know, I could've taken the others away, but I dealt with it my own way. :P

Jynx: It did okay when I could count on the opponent switching in after I switch this in. It looks much better on paper than it actually works out, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. I don't have much to comment on it, which is also unusual. It couldn't take many hits, so when Lovely Kiss missed, it would suffer. Also, in the chances that I got when Sleep Clause was on and a different Pokemon was asleep, it didn't do too well, but that was expected. I definitely prefer a Calm Mind Jynx, but this makes the cut.

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Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:48 pm
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Not very creative, but it wasn't in the Standard Movesets Guide or any other Movesets Guide so I decided to post it here:

While looking at Lugia's stats (I saw The Power of One last night XD ), I noticed that it has the same bsae stats for Attack as it does Special Attack, so why not try a Physical Sweeping set?

{lugia} @ Leftovers/Shell Bell/Apricot/Leichi
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SA)/ Jolly (+Spd, -SA)/ Careful (+SD, -SA)
EVs: 252 Atk, 129/252 Spd, 129/6 SD
~Aeroblast
~Earthquake
~Recover
~Shadow Ball

Earthquake for rock types, Aeroblast for STAB, Shadow Ball for ghost types, and Recover to regain HP. You can put in Shell Bell because the only turns you won't be attacking is when you're getting more HP anyway, but Leftovers is good too, just in case you want to get that extra HP on the Recover turns. I don't have any counters for special types because of Lugia's amazing special defense, and that's also why the Careful nature and the 6/129 SD Evs are up there. I'm not too good with EVs so I couldn't decide on which spread to choose.


Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:49 pm
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Lite Four
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If I'm not wrong we plan to add such an alternative set to the Standard Movesets Guide when we update the guide. Perhaps tiger10x can confirm this.

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Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:26 pm
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Hurray! I finally got one in!

Woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo!

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Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:17 am
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Okay, I've been using my Snorlax CMHoFer a lot lately, and I think I've come up with a better way to do that strategy:

Snorlax @ Lefties | Thick Fat | Jolly Nature (+Spd/-Sp Att)
Body Slam - Snore - Belly Drum - Rest
EVs: 252 Spd 252 Def 6 Sp Def

Pretty Simple Strategy. Use Belly Drum, then Rest. Snore while Resting, and use Body Slam once you wake up. If you need to, Rest again, Snore twice, and go back to Body Slamming. Like I said, it's similar to the current Snorlax HoF set, but this covers the weakness of not having a way to heal, as well as taking more advantage of STAB. Ghosts are a weakness, so Shadow Ball might be an alternative to Snore, although that shuts down any attack while using Rest. EV Spread helps out the weak Defense and Speed.

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Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:21 pm
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Why are you maxing out its speed? 174 isn't that great. You're better off giving it an adament nature and spliting the speed EV's between Hp and Att or giving it all to one of the two.

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Last edited by daveshan on Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:17 pm
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Because, frankly, with Snorlax's great base attack (110/316 at LV 100) and Belly Drum, it doesn't really need any help in the Attack Stat. It does, however, need help with it's speed; <s>174</s> 191 (with Jolly) isn't going to win it any awards, but it will possibly give it that edge to beat out some of the other pokemon. That would be my take on it, at least, although if tiger10x or Snowball agree that it would be better used as you suggested, then I'd go with that strategy for the EV's.

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Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:34 pm
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You already have a Body Slam-Belly Drum Snorlax in the Hall of Fame, albeit one that uses the Rollout-Defense Curl combo. I don't think this is much different from that, apart from it being able to heal. It might be better if the existing set is modified, instead of a new set added.

The problem of it having all Normal-type moves is true. Giving it Shadow Ball would make it too standard, thought. I'll need a second opinion on this one.

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Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:19 pm
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If tiger10x decides that it's too similar, perhaps the CMSoF set could be changed to:

Snorlax @ Lefties | Thick Fat | Jolly Nature (+Spd/-Sp Att)
Body Slam - Rollout/Snore/Shadow Ball - Belly Drum - Defense Curl/Rest
EVs: 252 Spd 252 Def 6 Sp Def

Which pretty much covers all the different strategy pieces of this particular strategy. I'd be fine with that, I just though that this alternative strategy might work well also.

Edit: Although, Shadow Ball is only necessary if your opponent doesn't try to out-think you. I know that I would look at a Normal with maxed-out attack that can learn a strong Ghost move, and think twice about switching in a Ghost that, while immune to Body Slam, might get taken down in no time by said Ghost move. The second-guessing alone would be brutal. So, Shadow Ball covers the weakness against Ghosts, while Snore covers you while using Rest. Either could hurt you a bunch, although I think people might think of the obvious strategy (Shadow Ball) more, which would make Snore more effective to suprise someone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Netbattle does not show your opponent's movest, right? (IE, you could potentially suprise someone?)

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Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:29 pm
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{houndoom} @ choice band
ability: flash fire
nature: adamant (+atk -spA)
EVs: 252 atk, 252 spd, 4 hp
- return
- shadow ball
- sludge bomb
- overheat

CB houndoom. with 304 atk this thing will dent anything not called suicune or tyranitar. return 2HKOs snorlax and blissey, shadow ball hits ghosts, sludge bomb OHKOs ludicolo, and overheat will OHKO any skarmory trying to wall.


Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:34 am
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Hey i'm new but i've got an ace movset 4 cacturne:

-Faint attack/Needle arm
-Growth
-Leech seed
-Ingrain

first use ingrain (this is vital because it not only restores health but cancels out roar and whirlwind) then use leech seed 2 drain their health aswell. Growth is used next to power up faint attack/needle arm then finish with your attacking move to deliver a killer blow.
P.S. tried and tested

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Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:28 am
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Snorlax: The only thing that got the Snorlax now in the HoF the creativity was the Defense Curl and Rollout. I don't think that it would be considered that much creative anymore if it is edited. I think the one currently in the HoF is fine as is.

Houndoom: Worth a shot, too, I suppose.

Cacturne: Just because it's an "ace" of a set doesn't mean that it would be considered very creative. One of the current Standard sets for Cacturne is similar.

<s>Testing results should be coming on soon.</s> I ended up devoting most of my free time lately to the new update for the standards, so that's not an excuse for delay anymore. :P

Update: Test results for Tropius and Walrein.

Tropius: Didn't pull it off very well. Unfortunately, I'll just have to rely on my own Cacturne for such purposes. The opponent just switches out, and HP Flying wasn't much to do while waiting for something to happen. The opponent is still going to attack you in between using Protect if it doesn't switch, and I used Toxic for some extra damage in some cases. But no, it couldn't get the ball rolling.

Walrein: Similar to Tropius, the attacking part of it wasn't very great, and Toxic wasn't much to rely on either. I still don't fully understand what this was aiming to be, and it had little to do in a lot of situaions. Although you can heal and use Snore while asleep, that's still nothing to go by constantly.

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Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:59 am
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{breelom} @ timid nature w/ chesto berry(the one that wakes from sleep)
stun spore
mind reader
dynamic punch
rest

U spore first, mind read, dynamic punch, thjan rest ur health up again


Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:05 pm
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Lite Four
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Unlikely to work well. Mind Reader isn't reliable when battling other people because they can simply switch when targeted. Also, Rest isn't much use as Breloom is unlikely to survive the two turns, and Chesto Berry only works once. That's my honest opinion, but maybe a second opinion will be better.

By the way, IMPORTANT NEWS. papersun will be returning to Creative Movesets, and will resume rating and testing duties. Welcome back ^_^


Tiger says "yay!"

Tiger also agrees with the opinion above and has nothing much to add.

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Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:23 pm
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um... ok cacturne wasn't to popular so i'll give you my altaria moveset that can beat the league by itself if u don't like it plz send me improvements
{altaria}
-dragon breath/claw
-fly
-flamethrower
-fire blast

imho dragon breath is better than d. claw coz it can parlyz and it's got more pp. use BOTH fire moves on glacia coz flamethrower isn't enough to beat walrein and sealeo

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Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:43 pm
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Seems kind of Standard to me. Dragonbreath/Claw and Flamethrower are common moves for Dragon types like Altaria. Fire Blast simply overlaps with Flamethrower, while Fly is ineffective.

Once again I re-iterate that this thread is called the Creative Movesets Thread for a reason. We are not looking for movesets that can beat every other Pokemon, but for non-standard, hence the name "creative", movesets.

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Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:32 am
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Well I've bever seen this before, so I guess it could be considered creative

Physical Sweeper Mantine

{mantine} @ Salac/Shell Bell/Chesto
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Adamant/Brave
EV's: 252Att/252Spd/6HP
-Rain Dance
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Aerial Ace/Body Slam/Rest


Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:47 pm
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My opinion would be drop Rain Dance. Is making Thunder (which Mantine is 4x weak to) 100% accurate getting the extra speed boost from Swift Swim? Not to mention the turn you use every five or so keeping it going.

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Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:06 pm
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Well my whole general idea was switch it in on say a Fire type. They will be suspecting a Surf and switch out to an Electric. On the turn they switch you use Rain Dance. And then I was hoping that Swift Swim would make him faster so he can Quake them. I'm not to sure though


Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:47 pm
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How about this?
{altaria} (female) King's rock
-Earthquake
-Attract
-Ice beam
-Toxic

It's unused by me but i made sure it covers its weaknesses well!

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Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:30 pm
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Not that standard, but doesn't seem good enough. It's a little of everything, if you look carefully. One Physical Sweeping move, one Special, it can Toxify the foe, and it's a semi-annoyer with Attract in there. Not focused enough to work well imo, but I'll need a second opinion to be fair =)

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Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:07 am
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