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 Metagame Analysis: Underused 
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Walrein can shrug off any attack Gligar can throw at it on the switch very easily.
Politoed probably can too.

Also, this is NOT a "pokemon analysis". It is a meta-game analysis. Go write Gligar's pokemon analysis. Leave it out of the UU meta-game analysis, because as everyone except you agrees, it doesn't belong here in the manner in which you included it.

As for belly drum, Linoone's defenses are utter crap. Poliwrath is a pokemon I would put in the low end of the bulky water category. I've seen it take ~30% from Swampert earthquakes, belly drum, and sweep. Not to mention if you don't like belly drum, it still has those defenses, a nice move pool, and the ability to bulk-up.

Also for the record, a CB'ed return from fearow doesn't really touch a Granbull that is set up as a physical sponge thanks to Intimidate. And yes, I would dare say that clerics do work in UU, quite well actually. Maybe you just don't know how to use them.

Actually I find it ironic that you name 1 counter for the salac-drum poliwrath and say it's bad and name 3 or 4 counters for Granbull and say its bad, yet you've already admitted to 6 or 7 counters for Gligar and still want to say it's godly in UU. Go write your pokemon analysis.

Seriously though, I'm not maligning you or anything. Go do a pokemon analysis on Gligar. We need more pokemon analyses. We've only got about a dozen of em, and it would be cool to fill the collection.

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Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:26 pm
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daveshan wrote:
Cloyster and Slowbro are accepted in the UU game because they are UU. The list that Smoogen has is faulty because you can't really say how many times a pokemon is and is not used. They just go by subjective observation.


The term UU isn't meant literaly. Pokemon are labeled as UU because of their stats, their movepools, or otherwise. Cloyster is freaking BL because it's defense is HUGE, AND it is used quite a fair bit in standard OU play. By whom? By people who don't want a Spiker wall who is trapped by Magneton. Slowbro isn't used as much, but it still has such good stats, and an awesome movepool that it IS banned from UU play most places you look.

Oh, and by the way. This Analysis is for the UU Metagame that derives from SMOGONS LIST! If you want to argue that "pokemon works" when it clearly isn't on the UU list, then please, get out of my thread.

Lynx wrote:
Walrein can shrug off any attack Gligar can throw at it on the switch very easily.
Politoed probably can too.

Okay yes, Walrein can, and so can Politoad. Slowking can also take one too (just adding another that I forgot)

Also, this is NOT a "pokemon analysis". It is a meta-game analysis. Go write Gligar's pokemon analysis. Leave it out of the UU meta-game analysis, because as everyone except you agrees, it doesn't belong here in the manner in which you included it.

Dude, seriously, you need to shut up. If you go play in an actual UU tournament, like I have, you will see Gligar everwhere. If you play UU as long as I have, you see Gligar everywhere. The reason I wrote this analysis, is because I know what I'm talking about from experience.

As for belly drum, Linoone's defenses are utter crap. Poliwrath is a pokemon I would put in the low end of the bulky water category. I've seen it take ~30% from Swampert earthquakes, belly drum, and sweep. Not to mention if you don't like belly drum, it still has those defenses, a nice move pool, and the ability to bulk-up.

Yes, sure, whatever. It's obviously that you love Poliwrath, so it's not like I"m going to do anything about it.

Also for the record, a CB'ed return from fearow doesn't really touch a Granbull that is set up as a physical sponge thanks to Intimidate. And yes, I would dare say that clerics do work in UU, quite well actually. Maybe you just don't know how to use them.

How many Grabull's are set up as spoonges? Oh yeah, that's right, none. It's an attacker, not a sponge.

Actually I find it ironic that you name 1 counter for the salac-drum poliwrath and say it's bad and name 3 or 4 counters for Granbull and say its bad, yet you've already admitted to 6 or 7 counters for Gligar and still want to say it's godly in UU. Go write your pokemon analysis.

Dude, seriously, just stop posting. Obviously if you were smart enough, you could tell that there is more than one counter for Salac-DrumPoliwrath. Anything that can easily knock off 50% of it's health, is a counter. Believe me, that is a lot. Also, I don't believe I said Granbull was bad. I said it was slow, and wasn't a good heal beller since status isn't the most important thing in UU. Also, I believe I only listed 6 counters for Gligar, of which, only 4 or so can actually take a hit.

Seriously though, I'm not maligning you or anything. Go do a pokemon analysis on Gligar. We need more pokemon analyses. We've only got about a dozen of em, and it would be cool to fill the collection.

What is your obsession with pokemon analyses? All throughout your attack upon my Metagame analysis you keep saying I should write a pokemon analyses.

Why?

It's not like we need them; everything that I would say would be the exact same as Smogon, so there's no reason for me to just repeat it. By the way, if you want to know why Gligar is so cool, just read it's analysis over at smogon. 2 Immunities, only 2 weaknesses. Good base Defense, A little bit over average Attack, Same with Speed. It also gets Swords Dance, and Swords Dance + STABed Earthquake is only seen on 4 pokemon (Sandslash, Marowak, Groudon, and Gligar. Gligar is the only non-uber that is fast enough to pull it off, and Marowak isn't UU anyway)

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Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:56 am
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*changes the topic before the flaming starts*

Okay, you guys say that walling is impossible in UU? I give you Clefable, the UU Wall.

Clefable @ Leftovers
-Cosmic Power
-Softboiled/Wish
-Thunder Wave/Ice Beam
-Seismic Toss

That's just the set I use, and it's quite effective, even against powered up sweepers. I use Thunder Wave myself, but I've seen versions that use Ice Beam so that they don't get stoped by random Ghost types (Misdreavus).

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Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:28 am
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Quote:
Slowbro isn't used as much

And that is only because Suicune can do the exact same thing, only better.

Quote:
Dude, seriously, you need to shut up. If you go play in an actual UU tournament, like I have, you will see Gligar everwhere. If you play UU as long as I have, you see Gligar everywhere. The reason I wrote this analysis, is because I know what I'm talking about from experience.

I said it before, I'll say it again. I love the arrogance. As a matter of fact, I have played UU. I played NB for over a year and 90% of that time was spent playing nothing but UU. I've played at Pokerealm, UU stadium, my own server, and Smogon (very rarely, cause most of the UUers there suck not to step on any feet. I know there are some very good battlers there, but in terms of raw proportions, PR has better players overall, simply because Smogon is the biggest server, so thats where all the nubs flock). Participated in several Pokerealm UU tournaments, placing fairly well. Regardless though, I do not have to explain myself to you. Clearly you feel you have been backed against the wall by logical argument and feel you need to lash out with personal attacks. Don't worry, I won't take it personally. Also, it's not your analysis I am criticizing. Overall it is good (though I think you overemphasize certain parts while understating certain others, but overall it is good). It is not even your obsession with Gligar that is the problem. Everyone is allowed to have a favorite poke, but one of the most critical aspects of any kind of analysis, be it pokemon, metagame, move, ability, etc, is that it be objective, and objectively speaking, Gligar is not a serious enough threat in UU to devote just about half of your UU metagame analysis to.

Quote:
It's not like we need them; everything that I would say would be the exact same as Smogon, so there's no reason for me to just repeat it.

I did find this comment interesting. For all time you claim you've spent playing UU, you are still that reliant on the Smogon guides to tell you everything about a pokemon? I will admit they are interesting reads, but it was my experience during the year+ that I played NB competitively that the good players weren't the nubs that relied on Smogon or any other sites' analyses to spoon feed them good teams and sets. The good ones were the players that did their own thing, made their own sets, built their own teams, because in the end, there is only so much you can be taught. The rest has to be learned. It works the same way in the real world. The individuals that are at the top of their fields are not having everything spoon fed to them, they are the ones doing the research, coming up with new ideas, and writing the books that spoon feed others.

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Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:34 am
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The UU Metagame isn't about CB everything, thats for sure. While there are certianly a fair few CB Birds out there, the idea that UU play runs on CBer's is flawed. CB is no more prevalent in UU than in OU. CB Mence, Metagross, and Heracross variants anyone? As far as HP Ground eating the physical walls, you can predict their prediction and switch to say Solrock or Misdreavus and then larf at their waste of a turn.

One large aspect of UU play is Sub/Endure + Reversal. With no TTar glaring over your shoulder the strategy can be pulled off quite well, which is why UU play almost necessitates priority attackers.

With the new XD Mods, theres a few effective Clerics to be found in Amphy and Altaria (I think Lapras got it too).

There are indeed walls in UU. Lanturn is a special wall, as are Hypno and Muk. I also don't advise switching in to a Muk because they've been known to expect Steel switchin's by now and are ready to frag you with Fire Blast.

And as a note, next to anything with Ice Beam owns Gligar. I send a Nidoqueen out on Electric types, and then when Gligar switches in I laugh in its face as it does 60-70% damage with EQ and then gets OHKO'd no questions asked by Ice Beam. The reason Gligar is allowed in UU is because while it does have some attack and speed, it isn't enough to warrant general use and the OU Metagame mainstays crap all over it.

Defeating Gligar is all about screwing with its setup. If you let Gligar get Swords Dance AND a Sub up, you DESERVE to get thrashed.

The UU metagame is all about prediction. It is faster paced than OU but no less enjoyable.


Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:43 am
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Lynx wrote:
Quote:
Slowbro isn't used as much

And that is only because Suicune can do the exact same thing, only better.


I thought we were talking about UU here =/

Quote:
I said it before, I'll say it again. I love the arrogance.


ty much =) I was in a hurry when I made this post before I left for school, so I didn't edit over some of the harsher words =/

Quote:
Gligar is not a serious enough threat in UU to devote just about half of your UU metagame analysis to.


I didn't spend half of my analysis talking about it. The only difference that the Gligar part has is that I just posted some movesets and junk. I would have posted a bunch of movesets on other stuff, but I was way too lazy. The fact that Gligar has that stuff put on in just makes it look like a lot more.


Quote:
I did find this comment interesting. For all time you claim you've spent playing UU, you are still that reliant on the Smogon guides to tell you everything about a pokemon?


I am sorry, but I do find this offensive. I would pretty much be posting the same standard sets, rather than posting anything interesting or unique. (Mostly becuase I keep that stuff for myself to suprise people ;) )

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Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:44 am
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Deck Knight wrote:
The UU Metagame isn't about CB everything, thats for sure. While there are certianly a fair few CB Birds out there, the idea that UU play runs on CBer's is flawed. CB is no more prevalent in UU than in OU. CB Mence, Metagross, and Heracross variants anyone? As far as HP Ground eating the physical walls, you can predict their prediction and switch to say Solrock or Misdreavus and then larf at their waste of a turn.

One large aspect of UU play is Sub/Endure + Reversal. With no TTar glaring over your shoulder the strategy can be pulled off quite well, which is why UU play almost necessitates priority attackers.

With the new XD Mods, theres a few effective Clerics to be found in Amphy and Altaria (I think Lapras got it too).

There are indeed walls in UU. Lanturn is a special wall, as are Hypno and Muk. I also don't advise switching in to a Muk because they've been known to expect Steel switchin's by now and are ready to frag you with Fire Blast.

And as a note, next to anything with Ice Beam owns Gligar. I send a Nidoqueen out on Electric types, and then when Gligar switches in I laugh in its face as it does 60-70% damage with EQ and then gets OHKO'd no questions asked by Ice Beam. The reason Gligar is allowed in UU is because while it does have some attack and speed, it isn't enough to warrant general use and the OU Metagame mainstays crap all over it.

Defeating Gligar is all about screwing with its setup. If you let Gligar get Swords Dance AND a Sub up, you DESERVE to get thrashed.

The UU metagame is all about prediction. It is faster paced than OU but no less enjoyable.

w00t, someone who knows what he's talking about!

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Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:47 am
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Deck Knight wrote:
The UU Metagame isn't about CB everything, thats for sure. While there are certianly a fair few CB Birds out there, the idea that UU play runs on CBer's is flawed. CB is no more prevalent in UU than in OU. CB Mence, Metagross, and Heracross variants anyone? As far as HP Ground eating the physical walls, you can predict their prediction and switch to say Solrock or Misdreavus and then larf at their waste of a turn.


Sure, whatever. Despite the large list of CBers I just posted, there are obviously hardly any CBs in UU at all. Since, you know, everything has enough attack without CB to win :roll:

Quote:
One large aspect of UU play is Sub/Endure + Reversal. With no TTar glaring over your shoulder the strategy can be pulled off quite well, which is why UU play almost necessitates priority attackers.


Yes, I can see how Sub/Endure + Reversal is HUGE. Especailly since EVERY SINGLE TEAM runs Quick Attack. That makes it a better choice than

say

Choice Band anyone?

Quote:
With the new XD Mods, theres a few effective Clerics to be found in Amphy and Altaria (I think Lapras got it too).


Yes, I can totally see your point (re: not)

And stop talking about freakin' Laprasy people.

She's Borderline, NOT UU!

Quote:
There are indeed walls in UU. Lanturn is a special wall, as are Hypno and Muk. I also don't advise switching in to a Muk because they've been known to expect Steel switchin's by now and are ready to frag you with Fire Blast.


um sure. And then Thick Fat Grumpig eats that Fire Blast only to CM in your face before destroying you. And switching steels in was just for that stupid Curse + Sludge Bomb set, anyway.

Quote:
And as a note, next to anything with Ice Beam owns Gligar.


Good job einstien, I'm sure no one has figured that out yet :roll:

Also, I almost missed your point about Nidoqueen and Ice Beam.

Um, who in their right mind would switch Gligar in on Nidoqueen/king? Everyone and their mother KNOWS that it packs Ice Beam.

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Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:51 am
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Siphai wrote:
Lynx wrote:
Quote:
Slowbro isn't used as much

And that is only because Suicune can do the exact same thing, only better.


I thought we were talking about UU here =/

I was responding to your statement that Slowbro isn't quite as common in OU as Cloyster with a simple reason why. So I could say the same thing, I thought we were talking about UU.

Siphai wrote:
Quote:
I said it before, I'll say it again. I love the arrogance.


ty much =) I was in a hurry when I made this post before I left for school, so I didn't edit over some of the harsher words =/

Like I said, I don't take it personally.

Siphai wrote:
Quote:
Gligar is not a serious enough threat in UU to devote just about half of your UU metagame analysis to.


I didn't spend half of my analysis talking about it. The only difference that the Gligar part has is that I just posted some movesets and junk. I would have posted a bunch of movesets on other stuff, but I was way too lazy. The fact that Gligar has that stuff put on in just makes it look like a lot more.

Let's see, you have as many sets for Gligar in your UU analysis as you do for every other pokemon combined. In terms of actual written text (i.e. non-set, non-list actual analysis, about 1/3 of the analysis is devoted to Gligar and Gligar alone, leaving about 2/3s of it to address CBers, Sub/End Revers, walls, sponges, and everything else. So you're right, not exactly half is devoted to Gligar, only somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2.

Siphai wrote:
Quote:
I did find this comment interesting. For all time you claim you've spent playing UU, you are still that reliant on the Smogon guides to tell you everything about a pokemon?


I am sorry, but I do find this offensive. I would pretty much be posting the same standard sets, rather than posting anything interesting or unique. (Mostly becuase I keep that stuff for myself to suprise people ;) )

Ahhhh, so you're one of those. That would be consistant with the elitist attitude.

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Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:08 am
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Lynx wrote:
Let's see, you have as many sets for Gligar in your UU analysis as you do for every other pokemon combined. In terms of actual written text (i.e. non-set, non-list actual analysis, about 1/3 of the analysis is devoted to Gligar and Gligar alone, leaving about 2/3s of it to address CBers, Sub/End Revers, walls, sponges, and everything else. So you're right, not exactly half is devoted to Gligar, only somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2.


Well, considering I wrote this on a whim, it would be consistant with what was going through my mind at the time. I could have spent more time on Reversalers, but Quick Attack is just bleh. I used to have one, but I realized that it's not the godly icon. What I should have spent some time on are the Special Sweeprs; more specifically, Manectric and co. They are definatly gamebreakers that I wish I mentioned, but just paraphrased them.

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Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:21 am
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Dude, Siphai, take some advice from your avatar and chill.

Siphai wrote:


Sure, whatever. Despite the large list of CBers I just posted, there are obviously hardly any CBs in UU at all. Since, you know, everything has enough attack without CB to win :roll:


Please tell me where I said "there are hardly any CBer's at all". I clearly said that they existed but the UU metagame does not REVOLVE around them.

Quote:
Yes, I can see how Sub/Endure + Reversal is HUGE. Especailly since EVERY SINGLE TEAM runs Quick Attack. That makes it a better choice than

say

Choice Band anyone?


Yes, because like, EVERY pokemon on a team is going to have Quick Attack and not just say 1 or 2 that, once out of the way, allow your Subversaler to wreak havoc? Yeah, thought so. CBer's get nerfed as the last pokemon, Subversalers allow come-from-behind victories. CBer's rely completelty on outpredicting, Subversalers rely on a better speed stat and a berry boost.

Quote:
With the new XD Mods, theres a few effective Clerics to be found in Amphy and Altaria (I think Lapras got it too).


Quote:
Yes, I can totally see your point (re: not)

And stop talking about freakin' Laprasy people.

She's Borderline, NOT UU!


Depends on your list, although I myself wondered why the frick UUSF allowed Lapras in, that thing is a beast. Its also why it was in parentheses because many consider it too powerful for UU (myself among them).

As to Clerics: Didn't your analysis say status was everywhere? I seem to recall so, and therefore havingf Aromatherapy or Heal Bell could, you know, fix that problem. Not to mention that Altaria, while certainly no Blissey, has defense oriented stats and also has Natural Cure and therefore makes a good cleric, as does Amphy who makes a lot of things switch out fearing a STABBed Tbolt off the godly SA. Hell, I've been using Granbull for Heal Bell since before the XD mods and it seemed to work just fine.

Quote:
There are indeed walls in UU. Lanturn is a special wall, as are Hypno and Muk. I also don't advise switching in to a Muk because they've been known to expect Steel switchin's by now and are ready to frag you with Fire Blast.


Quote:
um sure. And then Thick Fat Grumpig eats that Fire Blast only to CM in your face before destroying you. And switching steels in was just for that stupid Curse + Sludge Bomb set, anyway.


Yeah, because the existence of Grumpig makes Muk useless... Oh, except Muk still has a STABBED Sludge Bomb to chuck in your direction, or perhaps its lured you into an Explosion? UU is all aboiut unpredictablity, and with Muks Defense and SD, maybe they WANT to Lure your Grumpig in to get rid of the pesky thing. And why would Grumpig have Thick Fat instead of perhaps Own Tempo? Most of your arguments are based on "X doesn't work because X pokemon counters it". Its called switching, you've heard of it, I suppose?


Quote:
Good job einstien, I'm sure no one has figured (everything with Ice Beam owns Gligar) yet :roll:

Also, I almost missed your point about Nidoqueen and Ice Beam.

Um, who in their right mind would switch Gligar in on Nidoqueen/king? Everyone and their mother KNOWS that it packs Ice Beam.


I've seen it done before, mostl;y because they think they can come in and pwn it with EQ or wanted to spare their electric a deathblow. And i'm surprised you're the one to talk about obvious statements and switchins, given that the entire premise of your arguments "Thick Fat Grumpig into Muk", "Every Team runs Quick Attack so Subversal doesn't work", "I don't see your points about Clerics(as of yet unexplained)".

Just Chill Siphai. Its what the snowman would do.


Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:58 pm
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Deck Knight wrote:
Dude, Siphai, take some advice from your avatar and chill.

My Avatar is of Calvin and Hobbes. I'm pretty sure C&H does not represent 'chilling'.

Quote:
Yes, because like, EVERY pokemon on a team is going to have Quick Attack and not just say 1 or 2 that, once out of the way, allow your Subversaler to wreak havoc? Yeah, thought so. CBer's get nerfed as the last pokemon, Subversalers allow come-from-behind victories. CBer's rely completelty on outpredicting, Subversalers rely on a better speed stat and a berry boost.


Is this what this has come to? Saying:

"Pokemon can sweep when it's counters are gone"

Subversalers get nerfed as last pokemon too, because they might still have their QAer left, or their Gligar, or Pinsir. Or Electrode or whatever. You're really grasping at straws here.

Quote:
Depends on your list, although I myself wondered why the frick UUSF allowed Lapras in, that thing is a beast. Its also why it was in parentheses because many consider it too powerful for UU (myself among them).


Oh, I wonder what list I FRIGGEN CHOSE? MAYBE THE ONE ON THE FIRST POST? God, this is the UU Metagame by Smogon's tiers. So please, people (this isn't really directed at you, Deck) do NOT mention any pokemon that is NOT UU.

Quote:
As to Clerics: Didn't your analysis say status was everywhere?


Okay, just stop right there, skippy. You obviously have NOT read my analysis. It never said that anywhere.

Quote:
Yeah, because the existence of Grumpig makes Muk useless... Oh, except Muk still has a STABBED Sludge Bomb to chuck in your direction, or perhaps its lured you into an Explosion? UU is all aboiut unpredictablity, and with Muks Defense and SD, maybe they WANT to Lure your Grumpig in to get rid of the pesky thing. And why would Grumpig have Thick Fat instead of perhaps Own Tempo? Most of your arguments are based on "X doesn't work because X pokemon counters it". Its called switching, you've heard of it, I suppose?


um, I thought we were talking about a scenario where Muk uses Fire Blast for (reason, I don't really know why though. Since the aformentioned Steel type is Aggron, and, while he doesn't have good Sp. Def, Muk's Sp. Atk is hardly nominal)

Are you for REAL? Grumpig has Thick Fat instead of Own Tempo because, guess what! HE USES SUBSTITUTE! Yes, switching, yes I think I've heard of it (nice idiotic patronizing). However, most scenarios have to be put in a 1v1 scenario, because obviously you can switch out, so you have to dispose of that factor to aply choose what counters what. You can't say "pokemon doesn't counter pokemon because it can switch out," since that's stupid.

Quote:
I've seen it done before


Yes, way to base the majority off of the idiots who don't know what packs Ice Beam.

Quote:
Just Chill Siphai. Its what the snowman would do.


No, the snowman is freaking contemplating it's evolution from a snowball, not chilling.

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Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:46 am
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I think some people are over reading my posts regarding walls and such.

YES there are walls. However, UU is faster paced than OU. You aren't going to stall insanely like in OU with Muk, Hypno, ect. because UU has a tilt in the way of offense rather than defense.

Also, CB is used more in UU because of the pace issue. Per Team it isn't uncommon to find 2 or 3 CBers on a team. Maybe 2 fast and 1 slow with high defenses. However, CB doesn't rule the UU format. Guts rules the UU format.

btw, UUSF allows BLs.

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Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:14 am
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Nuetral777 wrote:
I think some people are over reading my posts regarding walls and such.

YES there are walls. However, UU is faster paced than OU. You aren't going to stall insanely like in OU with Muk, Hypno, ect. because UU has a tilt in the way of offense rather than defense.

Also, CB is used more in UU because of the pace issue. Per Team it isn't uncommon to find 2 or 3 CBers on a team. Maybe 2 fast and 1 slow with high defenses. However, CB doesn't rule the UU format. Guts rules the UU format.

btw, UUSF allows BLs.


Exactly.

Also, UUSF has a differen't UU and BL tier system than most other main websites anyway.

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Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:48 am
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Location: The liberal wasteland of Massachusettsstan.
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I note you missed the NU list Smogon has, some of which are viable in UU play (and I doubt they'd be banned from your UU tourney for being too powerful, LOL.)

    Aipom
    Ariados
    Beedrill
    Beautifly
    Castform
    Chimecho
    Corsola
    Crawdaunt
    Delcatty
    Delibird
    Dewgong
    Ditto
    Dustox
    Farfetch'd
    Furret
    Girafarig
    Glalie
    Huntail
    Illumise
    Kecleon
    Ledian
    Lickitung
    Luvdisc
    Magcargo
    Masquerain
    Mawile
    Mightyena
    Minun
    Murkrow
    Noctowl
    Nosepass
    Parasect
    Pelipper
    Pidgeot
    Piloswine
    Plusle
    Raticate
    Relicanth
    Seaking
    Shuckle
    Spinda
    Sudowoodo
    Sunflora
    Swalot
    Togetic
    Torkoal
    Trapinch
    Tropius
    Unown
    Venomoth
    Volbeat
    Wailord
    Whiscash
    Wigglytuff


Obviously not all of them are viable, but you can have some success with a few. Relicanth has your Normal/Flying resist, and actually has better HP than Golem with the same defense. Venomoth can Double Powder and has 306 speed with a speed boosting nature. I've also had limited success with a Thieving Mightyena and Cursing Lickitung (although in XD it gets Heal Bell, which I haven't tried on it yet). Whiscash also has some potential with 101HP Subs, and I contend the Piloswine does not deserve NU status, but thats for another day. Just don't forget about these guys totally, they are still options.


Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:10 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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Deck Knight wrote:
words


I appreciate your mentioning of NU's in the UU metagame. However, they are all NU for a reason. Relicanth is outclassed by Aggron and Golem in the wall department (Since Golem actually gets STAB on EQ and has a higher attack, along with Explode). Venomoth cannot do anything other THAN Double Powder, and it pretty much cannot switch in. Mightyena has lower stats than Raticate, and Lickitung just doesn't work. Whiscash is outclassed by Quagsire, and Piloswine has the worst type combo in the game (Except, maybe, Bug/Grass).

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Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:17 pm
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Bug Catcher
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Location: The liberal wasteland of Massachusettsstan.
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I'd argue that Relicanth is an alternative if your team has too much Water or Ice weakness. I'd also say that "they're NU for a reason" is as flawed as "they're UU for a reason" in the Standard Avdance Metagame. The Tier as handed down by the people of Smogon is a fairly accurate depiction of overall usefullness but does not account for team synergy or team needs.

Lets look at the stats and type chart:

Golem:
HP: 80
Attack: 110
Defense: 130
Speed: 45
SA: 55
SD: 65

Physical resistances: Normal, Flying, Rock, Poison(1/4x)
Special resistanes: Fire, Electric(0X)

Physical weaknesses: Ground, Fighting, Steel
Special weaknesses: Water(4x), Grass(4X), Ice

Aggron:
HP: 70
Attack: 110
Defense: 180
Speed: 50
SA: 60
SD: 60

Physical resistances: Normal(1/4x), Flying(1/4x), Bug, Rock, Ghost, Poison(0X)
Special resistances: Ice, Psychic, Dragon

Physical weaknesses: Fighting(4x), Ground(4x)
Special Weaknesses: Water

Relicanth:
HP: 100
Attack: 90
Defense: 130
Speed: 65
SA: 45
SD: 65

Physical resistances: Normal, Poison, Flying
Special resistances: Fire(1/4x), Ice

Physical weaknesses: Fighting, Ground
Special weaknesses: Electric, Grass(4X)

Tier is not an important factor to consider when choosing your team. What your team needs is the only thing that matters, and sometimes, although not often, an NU pokemon fits the bill. If all you're looking for is Normal and Flying resist, Relicanth has more HP than the others and avoids redundant defense points, however, if you're looking for Electric immunity as well or just a general switchin, you're better off with Golem and Aggron, respectively.

I'm not arguing that Aipom or Lickitung will be seeing mainstream use any time soon, simply that not every NU pokemon should be disregarded just because some guy at Smogon said it was NU. Thats all.


Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:07 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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Deck Knight wrote:
I'd argue that Relicanth is an alternative if your team has too much Water or Ice weakness. I'd also say that "they're NU for a reason" is as flawed as "they're UU for a reason" in the Standard Avdance Metagame. The Tier as handed down by the people of Smogon is a fairly accurate depiction of overall usefullness but does not account for team synergy or team needs.

Of course not. However, some pokemon just work better in more situations than others. That includes Golem and Aggron working better than Relicanth in most situations.

Lets look at the stats and type chart:

Okay, I have no idea why you posted this. But okay. Good job at copy & paste.


Tier is not an important factor to consider when choosing your team. What your team needs is the only thing that matters, and sometimes, although not often, an NU pokemon fits the bill. If all you're looking for is Normal and Flying resist, Relicanth has more HP than the others and avoids redundant defense points, however, if you're looking for Electric immunity as well or just a general switchin, you're better off with Golem and Aggron, respectively.

You're better off in basically all cases. Golem really works better than Relicanth, because it can attack much, much better. If you're looking for a Normal + Flying Resist, then go for Aggron, not Relicanth. 4x resist.

I'm not arguing that Aipom or Lickitung will be seeing mainstream use any time soon, simply that not every NU pokemon should be disregarded just because some guy at Smogon said it was NU. Thats all.

'some guy' at Smogon, happend to go through many rigorous tests and analysises to show how pokemon would be rated. They didn't just put some pokemon in places just because they could. They did it because maybe:

They have a sucky movepool
They have sucky stats
or
They are generally outclassed

Which all NU pokemon have in common.

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:14 am
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