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 Pokemon Comparer- Salamence vs. Dragonite 
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Pokemon Master
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Although I have no problem with pokemon analyzers, I don't feel that they help people make a team. Instead, I'm making a Pokemon Comparer different from psypoke's, which takes two (or more) pokemon who fill the same niche and lets people see their stats side-by-side so they have a better idea of which one to pick.

[color=cyan]Salamence
-Basics:

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Last edited by daveshan on Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:05 am
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Dragon Tamer
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You, er, forgot the natures and why CB as an option for a special sweeper? :?

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Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:16 pm
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Psychic Trainer
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With the correct EVs, Dragonite CAN actually take an Ice Beam. And with both Substitute and Thunderbolt at your disposal, it doesn't have to fear some of the water types that use Ice Beam all too much. Of course that doesn't take away from the "Dragon's Curse" issue, but I'm just saying. You also forgot Fire Blast on the first set, as Salamence can't "handle" Skarmory with Rock Slide, unless you have a 100% hax rate.

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Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:29 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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Dragonite actually doesn't need any EVs to take most non-stab ice beams.

In reality, Salamence is the better. It can outdamage Dragonite at everything Draggy does except one thing. BoltBeamSubPunch.


Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:07 pm
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Ace Trainer
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Tobey wrote:
Dragonite actually doesn't need any EVs to take most non-stab ice beams.

In reality, Salamence is the better. It can outdamage Dragonite at everything Draggy does except one thing. BoltBeamSubPunch.

aka boahnite, the only thing that can even compete with tyraniboah in its role category

to be honest though, ive been pwned by more dragonites than by salamences, primarily because of its thicker defenses (and wider move pool and moveset options) making it somewhat different than salamence in terms of counters... Also, dragonite has the advantage of not being nearly as common as salamence, so you're less likely to find teams with counters for it...

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Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:20 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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Lynx wrote:
Tobey wrote:
Dragonite actually doesn't need any EVs to take most non-stab ice beams.

In reality, Salamence is the better. It can outdamage Dragonite at everything Draggy does except one thing. BoltBeamSubPunch.

aka boahnite, the only thing that can even compete with tyraniboah in its role category

to be honest though, ive been pwned by more dragonites than by salamences, primarily because of its thicker defenses (and wider move pool and moveset options) making it somewhat different than salamence in terms of counters... Also, dragonite has the advantage of not being nearly as common as salamence, so you're less likely to find teams with counters for it...


To counter Dragonite...Ice Beam/Rock Slide it. It is slow and with that defense comes lower damage output.

Salamence is, indeed, easier to kill but that is the price you pay for a awesome Cb pokemon with EQ immune, Intimidate, Fighting/Grass/Water/Fire/Bug Resist.

Yes, Draggy has the same resist..only thing is that Dragonite can't taunt, iirc. It won't do as much damage, either. Dragonite may have a shock factor..but that only lasts one turn.

Dragonite's only saving grace is SubPunchBoltBeam...Salamence does everything else so much better.

And no, you would not leave EITHER pokemon in a battle against a pokemon with Ice Beam/Rock Slide unless you KNEW you were faster and won the KO.

Also Draggy takes 76-88% Damage from Rock Slide from CB Mence And any pokemon with ~375 or Higher Sp.Atk will be able to ohko with Ice Beam. So Draggy can take the hit..but you can't sub either way and thus lost Draggy's usefulness.

This means that Draggy would like some Wish Support to keep the HP high for subs.

Salamence needs no support. Skarm/Forrey is handled by Flamethrower on the CB set and Hydro Pump on the Elemence set. DDmence can Rock Slide skarm into a flinch loss..as on NB Skarm seems to up the RS flinch to 70%...kind of like Ludicolo and its 60% chance to freeze after being ice beamed [/complaint]

Anyway.

It stacks up to me, at least that Salamence is more effective OFFENSIVELY than Dragonite. Dragonite can serve a rather nice purpose on a Spikes team with SubVappy support. People will switch like made especially if the Dragonite can Sub(which means they'll assume boltbeamsubpunch..to which you dance on the switch maybe thus forcing another switch..heh heh)

BTW, The pokemon analysis isn't for team building per se. It is more a detailed article showing the uses, advantages, and disadvantages of a pokemon that is checked and verified, not to mention more indepthly covered, by other posters. Something like a community debate thread to make the effective analysis. We are analyzing the pokemon to see what it is capable of.


Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:16 pm
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Pokemon Master
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Torkoal power wrote:
You, er, forgot the natures

I knew there was something I was missing.

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Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:23 am
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Pokemon Ranger
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So dragonite can be used as a sub-puncher?
What would a good nature and EV's for it be(if it was bolt-beam and sub-punching? Sorry, I'm kind of new to netbattle.

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Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:24 pm
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at least 120 in both SAtk and Atk. At least 150 in SDef. The rest in speed, hp, and def.

Neutral nature would probably be best.
his speed is the lowest, though, so make it a -speed nature. Look here for the natures guide.


Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:37 am
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Psychic Trainer
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More like max HP, some speed, some SAtk, quiet nature.

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Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:39 am
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I prefer draggy as pure special:

~T-bolt
~Ice Beam
~Surf
~Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Dragon Claw

Owns anything (essentially). Super Effective against All but poisons lanturn, sableye, ghosts, normals, and fighting and psychic. Kills skarmy (t-bolt), steelix

Also, does a cb raise the atk stat or the power of the attack? Like, would it be a free rain dance if draggy used surf w/ a cb attached?


Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:22 pm
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Pokemon Ranger
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Peanut-Lover wrote:

Also, does a cb raise the atk stat or the power of the attack? Like, would it be a free rain dance if draggy used surf w/ a cb attached?


I think rain dance does more than CB, since rain dance powers up water x2, and CB is x1.5.

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Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:22 am
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Lite Four
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Choice Band raises that Pokemon's Attack stat, so it has no effect on Surf, Dragon Claw, Thunder, etc.

p.s. Rain Dance on Dragonite is generally a bad idea.


Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:30 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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Rain Dance only gives a 1.5 boost at most, iirc

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Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:43 pm
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Bug Catcher
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salemence because an d-claw attk from him will take of atleast half of dragonites hitpoints and even tho dragonites icebeam can take off more than half of salemences hitpoints salemances speed would win

so salemance would use dragonclaw again and win


Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:08 pm
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Illiterate
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For In-game trainers such as the battle frontier or the battle tower, I thinki dragonite is better. After one dragon dance not many pokemon are going to outrun {dragonite} , besides, its defences allow it to take more hits when its dragon-dancing; and the diference between dragonite´s and salamence´s attack is almost nothing.


Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:11 pm
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