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X/Y Tournament-Over-Congratulations to ChillBill!
http://www.psypokes.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=31283		 Page 4 of 5
Author:  twistedturtwig [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
Personally, I've never really liked Blaziken, but it's not banned, so I don't see any reason as to why it's wrong to use it. Sure, it's a pain to get rid of once it's going, but like all Pokemon, it has its weak points. In my match, it wrecked me for the most part, but in hindsight, there were definitely a few ways I could have gotten around it.

So yeah, I don't feel that there's a need to ban it.
Author:  Cherrygrove [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
Using Blaziken does not go against any of the rules stipulated in the first post at the start of the tournament.

My call is that using Blaziken is perfectly fine.
Author:  UberPorpoise [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
ChillBill wrote:
Won against NastyNati 2-0. However, they seem to believe that me using Blaziken was a very ridiculous move, unworthy of someone who knows how to battle. They think I should be ashamed of myself and that the battle would have been easily won were it not for Blaziken. They seem, however, to forget that this is a tournament with VGC rules, and that the only banned Pokemon, as clearly stated in the OP, are Mewtwo, Xerneas and Yveltal, since its purpose is to prepare us for VGC battles and tournaments. Apart from that, in my opinion it wasn't Blaziken who changed the battle, but another Pokemon. I've already send the video to Cherrygrove, who, as someone who doesn't take part, will be the best judge of it, and it also won't reveal strategies and Pokemon, but still, the matter lies on whether I should have used Blaziken or not. Possible outcomes are secondary.
I'll leave this matter to your judgment. Do you think that me using Blaziken is bad/illegal? Do you think the reason I've won my battles is that I use it? Please speak your mind. I don't want my own tournament to fall because of something I did.



I didn't start competitive battling until X/Y came out, so I wasn't aware of the previous hatred towards Blaziken when I first designed my team. However, I quickly learned how much people hate it, so I bred another Pokemon to replace it. I love Blaziken because I love its type coverage and it balanced out my team wonderfully. I think the hatred aimed at it is unnecessary because there are many ways to defeat it: priority moves due to it being fragile and anything that resists Fire/Fighting, etc. I guess my response is a little unnecessary, but I don't see a problem in using it.
Author:  NastyNati311 [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
Before you just go ahead and take the nonsense he spits out at face value, let me explain why him using Blaziken is unfair to the competitive balance of the game (and this tournament in general) and shouldn't be allowed. Blaziken literally only has three counters in the entire current metagame. They are Gale Wings Talonflame, Azumarill and either switching in a ghost on HJK or hoping it misses. That's literally it. So you have to have either Talonflame, Azumarill or a ghost on your team to even have a prayer against a Blaziken once it gets a speed boost up (very easy with protect). If it gets an SD up (which is very easy) you might as well quit. I, of course, was unprepared for Blaziken, as I wasn't expecting it due to it being banned by every reputable battling site for over a year now. I prepared my team that I am using in the tournament without a Blaziken check assuming I wouldn't need one. Unfortunately for me, Chill Bill decided to use an Uber against my team of OU and UU pokemon. All I could do was either a.) pray I got a golden opportunity to set up with one of my own boosting pokemon or b. hope he switched it into a powerful hit. As soon as Blaziken came in cleanly it was game over, as there was nothing I could do to stop it since I carry none of the 3 counters in the metagame. Think about it, do you really want to allow something that stifles creativity in team building and can completely dismantle entire teams by simply using protect once? With Blaziken you either have to bring one of those three pokemon, or hope you get lucky. It literally 6-0's entire teams by itself. This isn't even including its mega evo which would make it even more ridiculous.

Let me end by saying there is a reason why nearly every site bans it. It is OP and kills the competitive balance. If he wants to use Blaze Blaziken, go ahead, by all means. Speed Boost is a game breaking OP ability on Blaziken though and is the reason why it went from UU in gen 4 to Uber in Gen 5.
Author:  NastyNati311 [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
UberPorpoise wrote:
ChillBill wrote:
Won against NastyNati 2-0. However, they seem to believe that me using Blaziken was a very ridiculous move, unworthy of someone who knows how to battle. They think I should be ashamed of myself and that the battle would have been easily won were it not for Blaziken. They seem, however, to forget that this is a tournament with VGC rules, and that the only banned Pokemon, as clearly stated in the OP, are Mewtwo, Xerneas and Yveltal, since its purpose is to prepare us for VGC battles and tournaments. Apart from that, in my opinion it wasn't Blaziken who changed the battle, but another Pokemon. I've already send the video to Cherrygrove, who, as someone who doesn't take part, will be the best judge of it, and it also won't reveal strategies and Pokemon, but still, the matter lies on whether I should have used Blaziken or not. Possible outcomes are secondary.
I'll leave this matter to your judgment. Do you think that me using Blaziken is bad/illegal? Do you think the reason I've won my battles is that I use it? Please speak your mind. I don't want my own tournament to fall because of something I did.



I didn't start competitive battling until X/Y came out, so I wasn't aware of the previous hatred towards Blaziken when I first designed my team. However, I quickly learned how much people hate it, so I bred another Pokemon to replace it. I love Blaziken because I love its type coverage and it balanced out my team wonderfully. I think the hatred aimed at it is unnecessary because there are many ways to defeat it: priority moves due to it being fragile and anything that resists Fire/Fighting, etc. I guess my response is a little unnecessary, but I don't see a problem in using it.

What priority move(s) exactly? It resists bullet punch, sucker punch, shadow sneak and mach punch. Literally all there is is Aqua Jet from Azumarill and Aerialate Quick Attack from Mega Pinsir and Gale Wings Talonflame.
Author:  MasonTheChef [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
NastyNati311 wrote:
What priority move(s) exactly? It resists bullet punch, sucker punch, shadow sneak and mach punch. Literally all there is is Aqua Jet from Azumarill and Aerialate Quick Attack from Mega Pinsir and Gale Wings Talonflame.


Shadow Sneak and Mach punch hit Blaziken neutrally.

Also keep in mind that this tourney was started before Smogon/PO quickbanned it. As well as this rule
Quote:
A player may not change his team in any way throughout the tournament (this includes changing Pokemon, moves or items)


Irregardless, Don't expect Smogon/PO to have a balanced OU meta until next summer.
Author:  ChillBill [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
NastyNati311 wrote:
Before you just go ahead and take the nonsense he spits out at face value Yeah, right.
Blaziken literally only has three counters in the entire current metagame. They are Gale Wings Talonflame, Azumarill and either switching in a ghost on HJK or hoping it misses. That's literally it. There's also Chandelure with Flash Fire, Slowbro and in certain cases, Charizard. It's also possible to check it. Not that it really matters.
Unfortunately for me, Chill Bill decided to use an Uber against my team of OU and UU pokemon. You still haven't realized we play VGC, right?


Cherrygrove already said it... And I'm telling you for the fifth or sixth time: This. Is. A VGC tournament. You gave all the reasons why Smogon banned Blaziken. Fun fact: We know them. And be certain that Blaziken will have its spot in our OU tournaments banlist. But not our VGC.

The participants have spoken, and a moderator has stated his position. The tournament continues normally.
Author:  azul [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
>_> lets not fight about it until pokebank is out. also the reason it is not banned from smogen or anywhere else is that most everyone has talonflame and talonflame can take any hit and ohko with brave bird or you encourage an HJK and switch to your ghost type. i understand where nastynati is coming from. i hate the bird too. it just needs some time and i think it will get the ben like gangar/(inite) did. this turny is to judge whether some things are to op or not right? gangar has counters blaziken has counters but ou is supose to be fun for everyone and some people want to use "their pokemon" and not some pokes that they need to not get sweeped by mega gangar and blaziken but then their are the people that want to use gangar and blaziken so ban the item ban the pokes or not do any of that and some pokemon just have to be on everyones team. :/
byw this goes for any pokemon ever.
ps: my head hurts now.............. :(
Author:  NastyNati311 [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
azul wrote:
>_> lets not fight about it until pokebank is out. also the reason it is not banned from smogen or anywhere else is that most everyone has talonflame and talonflame can take any hit and ohko with brave bird or you encourage an HJK and switch to your ghost type. i understand where nastynati is coming from. i hate the bird too. it just needs some time and i think it will get the ben like gangar/(inite) did. this turny is to judge whether some things are to op or not right? gangar has counters blaziken has counters but ou is supose to be fun for everyone and some people want to use "their pokemon" and not some pokes that they need to not get sweeped by mega gangar and blaziken but then their are the people that want to use gangar and blaziken so ban the item ban the pokes or not do any of that and some pokemon just have to be on everyones team. :/
byw this goes for any pokemon ever.
ps: my head hurts now.............. :(


It is banned on Smogon and everywhere else. Because it is overpowered and unfair. I guess my main problem with it was that I built my team around the assumption that it wouldn't be used. I don't play VGC, never looked up the ban list for it. Blaziken is almost universally banned, so I figured it would be safe to assume the banlist was the same as smogon's. For something as threatening as Blaziken, I feel as though Chill Bill should have noted in the original post that it would be fair game to use. Then players inexperienced with VGC could have actually been prepared with a counter.
Author:  UberPorpoise [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
NastyNati311 wrote:
azul wrote:
>_> lets not fight about it until pokebank is out. also the reason it is not banned from smogen or anywhere else is that most everyone has talonflame and talonflame can take any hit and ohko with brave bird or you encourage an HJK and switch to your ghost type. i understand where nastynati is coming from. i hate the bird too. it just needs some time and i think it will get the ben like gangar/(inite) did. this turny is to judge whether some things are to op or not right? gangar has counters blaziken has counters but ou is supose to be fun for everyone and some people want to use "their pokemon" and not some pokes that they need to not get sweeped by mega gangar and blaziken but then their are the people that want to use gangar and blaziken so ban the item ban the pokes or not do any of that and some pokemon just have to be on everyones team. :/
byw this goes for any pokemon ever.
ps: my head hurts now.............. :(


It is banned on Smogon and everywhere else. Because it is overpowered and unfair. I guess my main problem with it was that I built my team around the assumption that it wouldn't be used. I don't play VGC, never looked up the ban list for it. Blaziken is almost universally banned, so I figured it would be safe to assume the banlist was the same as smogon's. For something as threatening as Blaziken, I feel as though Chill Bill should have noted in the original post that it would be fair game to use. Then players inexperienced with VGC could have actually been prepared with a counter.



ChillBill noted what was banned; Blaziken was not mentioned. Blaziken is "fair game to use."

I literally crafted my team around using Blaziken on my team to only find out that I cannot really use it. I haven't had the time to IV breed, EV train, and level up a recrafted team, so my team is rather crippled. Having had Blaziken on my team would have made my loss to Mason something a bit more even than 6-0 and that's not due to its "OP ability."
Author:  NastyNati311 [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
UberPorpoise wrote:
NastyNati311 wrote:
azul wrote:
>_> lets not fight about it until pokebank is out. also the reason it is not banned from smogen or anywhere else is that most everyone has talonflame and talonflame can take any hit and ohko with brave bird or you encourage an HJK and switch to your ghost type. i understand where nastynati is coming from. i hate the bird too. it just needs some time and i think it will get the ben like gangar/(inite) did. this turny is to judge whether some things are to op or not right? gangar has counters blaziken has counters but ou is supose to be fun for everyone and some people want to use "their pokemon" and not some pokes that they need to not get sweeped by mega gangar and blaziken but then their are the people that want to use gangar and blaziken so ban the item ban the pokes or not do any of that and some pokemon just have to be on everyones team. :/
byw this goes for any pokemon ever.
ps: my head hurts now.............. :(


It is banned on Smogon and everywhere else. Because it is overpowered and unfair. I guess my main problem with it was that I built my team around the assumption that it wouldn't be used. I don't play VGC, never looked up the ban list for it. Blaziken is almost universally banned, so I figured it would be safe to assume the banlist was the same as smogon's. For something as threatening as Blaziken, I feel as though Chill Bill should have noted in the original post that it would be fair game to use. Then players inexperienced with VGC could have actually been prepared with a counter.



ChillBill noted what was banned; Blaziken was not mentioned. Blaziken is "fair game to use."

I literally crafted my team around using Blaziken on my team to only find out that I cannot really use it. I haven't had the time to IV breed, EV train, and level up a recrafted team, so my team is rather crippled. Having had Blaziken on my team would have made my loss to Mason something a bit more even than 6-0 and that's not due to its "OP ability."


Are you trying to imply that Speed Boost isn't overpowered on Blaziken? Because about 99% of the competitive community would beg to differ. Also you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I haven't played in a tournament in over a year in which Blaziken was legal, so it being the lone Uber in this predominantly OU tournament was a unwelcome surprise for my team and provided Chill Bill with an unfair advantage.
Author:  Cherrygrove [ Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
Before this tournament is derailed, I'm going to ask everybody to stop this discussion about whether Blaziken should be banned from this tournament.

Yes, it is currently banned in Smogon OU. However, this tournament has its own rules and Blaziken is legal.

In the future I ask that everybody signing up for a tournament read the tournament's rules before starting. This way you will be aware of every Pokemon that you may or may not use on your own team and also what Pokemon your opponents will potentially be using. Don't make assumptions.

I hope we can all get by this and continue the tournament business as usual. If anyone feels the need to discuss the matter further, send me a PM.
Author:  ChillBill [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
Tomorrow's the deadline! I expect the last match to be done until then!
Also, a heads-up: I'll be gone for the next week, so I might give an extension to either this round or the next; still, try to complete your battles within the deadlines.
Author:  UberPorpoise [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
Confirming victory against twistedturtwig: 4-0.

I'm sorry that I haxed your para-hax, man. That was odd.
Author:  twistedturtwig [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 4
Yeah, that was pretty strange. Your Pokemon just refused to be paralyzed! Good game, nonetheless!
Author:  ChillBill [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 5
The next round is out!

Round 5 pairings:
NastyNati311-MasonTheChef 3-0
azul-ChillBill 5-0
Kiga-UberPorpoise 3-0
twistedturtwig-Dare234 4-0
Author:  azul [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 5
Well I'm busy today so some time this week. :)
Author:  Kiga [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 5
I won the match against Uber, 3-0. Good game =)
Author:  UberPorpoise [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 5
I lost 0-3. That was a good game, Kiga. You caught me off guard in a big and meaningful way.
Author:  MasonTheChef [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 5
Beat NastyNati311 3-0.

--
Author:  ChillBill [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 5
OK, so I'll be extending this for a few days. Try to complete your matches till then. That includes the scumbag ChillBill, who thinks he's greater than the others.
EDIT: Beat azul 5-0. The only match remaining is that of tt and Dare. Please get it done quickly.
Author:  azul [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 5
Well this goes to show that I need a new team and that is why I will skip masons turny. Also I am to busy.
Author:  Dare234 [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 5
I've had some technical difficulties on my end, so we haven't been able to battle. The delay is my fault.

I've resolved the issues but TT hasn't gotten my pms yet.
Author:  Dare234 [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 5
So TT won't be able to battle until the weekend. We're both willing to forfeit as we are both partially to blame. I don't know if you want to call it a draw, flip a coin, or we can get it done on the weekend. We can always come back to it as well if you want to release the next round.
Author:  ChillBill [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: X/Y Tournament-Round 5
You can get it done in the weekend. Just try not to repeat it in the future please.
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