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 Gen VI Banlist Discussion 
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Pokemon Master
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So Gen VI has finally arrived. In 2 months, when Pokemon Bank will be released, the stage will be set. Competitive battling in all tiers will once again escalate at a new level.
While waiting for this, the Smogon team is doing what it does best, and that's testing. Ranging from stat calculation to whole Pokemon sets, they are working on the next banlist. In some way, we also do the same thing. We try new Pokemon, strategies and tricks and we prepare new teams for the future. The Smogon banlist might the basis, but it's not necessarily what we will use. Discuss the new metagame here-any up-and-coming threats you feel we should watch out for. Eventually, we will be able to post our own banlist, and hopefully start a rebirth process on this rather neglected battle forum.

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Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:44 pm
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Gengarite was being looked at on Smogon, but I haven't really looked fully into that discussion. With high speed and ungodly special attack, and Shadow Tag, Gengar-M will be threatening, but it isn't without its counters. Personally, I think that this is what Alakazam-M was partially designed around. He out-speeds the ghost, although he might have to watch for Sucker Punch, and then can hit pretty hard with Psyshock. And then on top of that, if the evolution is timed right, then Alakazam-M will be able to trace Shadow Tag for himself.

Gengar-M probably won't be as scary as it looks on paper, as almost anything physical with priority or a scarfed approximate 95 speed should be able to check it if it has a positive speed nature, but it definitely has power, and could certainly see use in Ubers.

Blaziken-M and Lucario-M are both pokemon that I've seen up for the smogon ban list, but honestly, I've been looking more for discussion and the usage of Gardevoir in-between my midterms, and it seems that she'll be lucky to make it into the OU, and certainly won't be seeing the level of Uber until something is done about her defense.


Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:53 pm
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I feel M-Blazkein will end up being Uber, mainly because of Speed Boost. That and plain old Blazkein was Uber, because of speed Boost. So there's a Really good chance M. Blazkein will be the same.

As for the rest.....Aegislash may be OU (along with Doublade). Its really the only Pokemon I can speak of, cause I do use it a lot. Its Attack and Def are High, but the rest are so-so.

Chesnaught is up in the air for me, still waiting to see if he gets Drain Punch via breeding. I feel if he does he might be that much closer to OU.

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Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:55 pm
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GofD wrote:
I feel M-Blazkein will end up being Uber, mainly because of Speed Boost. That and plain old Blazkein was Uber, because of speed Boost. So there's a Really good chance M. Blazkein will be the same.

As for the rest.....Aegislash may be OU (along with Doublade). Its really the only Pokemon I can speak of, cause I do use it a lot. Its Attack and Def are High, but the rest are so-so.


Adding the fact that Blaziken can now learn Baton pass, it will most likely be Uber again, even with it's loss of perma-sun.

Lucario-M and Mawile-M are the other megas I'm seeing going up to uber, Lucario's adaptability Bullet punch, CC and the heavy nerf to Mach punch Breloom may make it too powerful for OU. Mawile's Typing, Pure power, Powerful STAB moves, Sucker punch and getting a good set up chance due to pre-mega intimidate could make it a candidate as well.

As for the new pokes only the obvious X/Y mascots I see getting a ban hammer with Yveltal barely making it. Zygarde is too slow and a gen too late for a Dragon tank.

And I do wonder about weakness policy, tried it on Aegislash and TR Bronzong, it can be a bit extreme.

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Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:14 pm
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Blaziken will probably stay in Ubers, however I don't see its Mega form getting much use. It doesn't really give Blaziken something it lacks, Mega Blaziken hits slightly harder than LO Blaziken, maybe w/o the recoil but still taking up the Mega position. What really intrigues me is Mega Mewtwo Y. That thing, with its new increased SpD and Spe, can now set up a Calm Mind and proceed to eliminate everything. Mega Mewtwo X on the other hand isn't as good, since Mewtwo's physical movepool isn't as good as its special, its Speed remains the same and its possible wallbreaking power coming from 190Atk/150SpA isn't that useful with Mewtwo already having access to Psystrike. As for Xerneas and Yveltal, they will probably both fly to Ubers, but for different reasons. Since Xerneas has access to Geomancy, a Power Herb set combined with the fact that Xerneas is pure Fairy, therefore capable of dealing with the many Uber Dragons easily, can prove to be a new bane for the Uber metagame. After all, there aren't many Pokemon that run Poison or Steel moves in Ubers (stuff like Dialga, Steel Arceus and the uncommon Scizor), meaning that Xerneas can pretty much set up on anything without being afaid. Combine that with a movepool that also includes powerful physical moves like Horn Leech, Outrage and Close Combat and we've got a definite threat. Yveltal now... Its Speed is not that great, just as Xerneas'. Yvletal however, lacks Geomancy, its typing isn't as good and so is its movepool. Having access to Oblivion Wing and Roost gives it considerable survivability, and with 125/100/100 defenses I can see it working as a bulky attacker, however I doubt it will see much use. Perhaps it can work in a bulky rain team alingside Kyogre, since it can also learn Hurricane. Zygarde is out of the question-it will be lucky if it even makes it to OU. Garchomp is way better. The only way Zygarde will be able to do something is with a bulky DD set. Having access to Outrage and Extreme Speed means it can function like a small Rayquaza with mediocre offenses.
For OU, what I consider probable are Aegislash, Goodra and Galvantula, thanks to the new Sticky Web tactics. In fact, Sticky Web along with the new Defog mechanics are two topics of great interest and importance and I suggest we look a bit into them.

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Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:34 am
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Apparently, on Smogon's temporary list, Xerneas and Yveltal became Uber while Blaziken, Genesect, Manaphy, Thundurus-I, Tornadus-T, Landorus-I and Deoxys-N,D and S returned to OU. Thoughts?

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Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:18 pm
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ChillBill wrote:
Apparently, on Smogon's temporary list, Xerneas and Yveltal became Uber while Blaziken, Genesect, Manaphy, Thundurus-I, Tornadus-T, Landorus-I and Deoxys-N,D and S returned to OU. Thoughts?


*eyeroll* My thoughts are I'll be playing Ranked Wifi for the next few months. I guess they got to re-test them at some point, but throwing them all at once into OU is just annoying.

Hyper-offence, Hyper offence EVERYWHERE!

Also I'm rather enjoying the Pre-bank Meta.

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Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:39 pm
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MasonTheChef wrote:
ChillBill wrote:
Apparently, on Smogon's temporary list, Xerneas and Yveltal became Uber while Blaziken, Genesect, Manaphy, Thundurus-I, Tornadus-T, Landorus-I and Deoxys-N,D and S returned to OU. Thoughts?


*eyeroll* My thoughts are I'll be playing Ranked Wifi for the next few months. I guess they got to re-test them at some point, but throwing them all at once into OU is just annoying.

Hyper-offence, Hyper offence EVERYWHERE!

Also I'm rather enjoying the Pre-bank Meta.

I'm really not that worried about Blaziken and the genies. They'll be good, but other than Landorus-T they're very frail. Talonflame's prevalence really limits Blaziken's usefulness. All the megas being in OU is a just enough reason to bring down the genies, as they are less threatening than most megas. Genesect and Deoxys being in OU worries me though.

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Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:50 pm
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MasonTheChef wrote:
ChillBill wrote:
Apparently, on Smogon's temporary list, Xerneas and Yveltal became Uber while Blaziken, Genesect, Manaphy, Thundurus-I, Tornadus-T, Landorus-I and Deoxys-N,D and S returned to OU. Thoughts?


*eyeroll* My thoughts are I'll be playing Ranked Wifi for the next few months. I guess they got to re-test them at some point, but throwing them all at once into OU is just annoying.

Hyper-offence, Hyper offence EVERYWHERE!

Also I'm rather enjoying the Pre-bank Meta.


Which is basically what Gen IV was. Who can hit harder faster. :/

I can pretty much see a good chunk of Megas going to Uber just because of stats and brokenness. I can even foresee Mega Garchomp going to uber. then again you don't need a crystal ball for that.

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:12 pm
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Deoxys-N and Blaziken went back to Ubers... that was short-lived.

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Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:33 am
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ChillBill wrote:
Deoxys-N and Blaziken went back to Ubers... that was short-lived.



With Blaziken gone I do wonder how far up Scolipede is going to go into OU. W/Speed boost, Baton pass, access to SD and a decent movepool it will definitely be a potent threat.

Also Gengarite has been banned from OU as well.

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Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:37 am
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So over on Pokemon Online Mega Kangaskhan has been put under suspect for OU ban (As well as banned in inverse tier.)

Thoughts and opinions?

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Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:04 pm
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MasonTheChef wrote:
So over on Pokemon Online Mega Kangaskhan has been put under suspect for OU ban (As well as banned in inverse tier.)

Thoughts and opinions?

It needs to be banned. I played around with it for a little on PO and consistently took out 3 of the opponents pokemon with little to no prediction. Just power up punch on a switch, and then smack the **** out of things with return and sucker punch.

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Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:25 pm
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I agree, the only argument I see about her is that she suffers from "Four moveslot syndrome" Depending on the set there's one or two pokemon that can actually wall her.

-Return
-Sucker Punch
-Power-up Punch

-Fire Punch (for Forretress and Ferrothorn)
-EQ (For Aegislash)
-Crunch (For Trevenant and Gourgeist)

The downside I see to this argument is that a team has to have at least 2/3 above mons to not become fodder to it, or just be lucky. Likewise Khan can run a set with all three moves PuP or Return/Crunch/EQ/Fire punch and leave all of it's defensive checks destroyed for the rest of her team to take advantage of. This however comes at a cost of likely being revenged via scarf, but because of the speed it sits at theses checks are quite obvious and can simply be switched away.
A 252HP Eviolite Doublade however only takes up to ~40% from PB'd EQ and can 2hko it with Sacred Sword or Gyro Ball, it just can't be haxxed by crunch/fire punch or crit among the 4 hits it takes.

I say ban it, and tell gamefreak to have a pokemon make sense before making a Mega of it. How is it born with a baby in it's pouch? How is it only Female? Why can't I catch a baby-khan?

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Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:06 am
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MasonTheChef wrote:
I agree, the only argument I see about her is that she suffers from "Four moveslot syndrome" Depending on the set there's one or two pokemon that can actually wall her.

-Return
-Sucker Punch
-Power-up Punch

-Fire Punch (for Forretress and Ferrothorn)
-EQ (For Aegislash)
-Crunch (For Trevenant and Gourgeist)

The downside I see to this argument is that a team has to have at least 2/3 above mons to not become fodder to it, or just be lucky. Likewise Khan can run a set with all three moves PuP or Return/Crunch/EQ/Fire punch and leave all of it's defensive checks destroyed for the rest of her team to take advantage of. This however comes at a cost of likely being revenged via scarf, but because of the speed it sits at theses checks are quite obvious and can simply be switched away.
A 252HP Eviolite Doublade however only takes up to ~40% from PB'd EQ and can 2hko it with Sacred Sword or Gyro Ball, it just can't be haxxed by crunch/fire punch or crit among the 4 hits it takes.

I say ban it, and tell gamefreak to have a pokemon make sense before making a Mega of it. How is it born with a baby in it's pouch? How is it only Female? Why can't I catch a baby-khan?


I have to agree with Mason (except the last part where he starts to rank). Mega-Kangaskan main point for being banned from OU (in my opinon) is its ability. I personally see Parental Bond, may not seem it, but it is a RIDICOULOUS ability. Being able to use EQ twice in one turn? Being able to get twice the stats bonus from PuP in one turn? All at FULL POWER, with no downside or restrictions? I dont think it would be such a big deal if there was some sort of restriction (Like maybe the move will hit twice at half the power, and WITHOUT added effects? Or a less chance os said effects?) placed on the moves.

Also, just for the record, I was able to force a Mega Kangaskan to use up all its PP in Sucker Punch on Showdown with my AegiSlash ( I have a new found joy for running two none damaging moves, and also a little confused why the guy didnt switch it out to something else). Mega-Kangaskan Can be beat with the right strategy, Unfortuently, That strategy is pretty much "Please oh please dont have (Insert move here), and please oh Please dont use my Poke as Fodder for PuP"

I say Ban it from OU and move it up to Uber. At least there with Mega Blazkein, things can be balanced out a little.

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Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:29 pm
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