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 Sunny Day 
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Bug Catcher
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Hey guys, I am looking to make a Sunny Day team and I am trying to figure out who would be the best leads in a team like this....also any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:05 pm
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we don't make teams for you, we will help refine your seclected team, though an dyour really need to give it a decent effort.

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Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:41 pm
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He isn't asking anyone to make a team for him, he's just asking for a suggestion for a starter.

As far as a sunny day starter, I wouldn't know much to suggest. A bulky sunny day user with little weaknesses would probably be best. Groudon is obviously the best for the job, as his ability automatically sets up sunny day, but as he is in the Uber tier, odds are you won't be using him. Maybe consider using a Heatran as your starting pokemon for this team, as he has good defenses, and flash fire will come in handy later on as a switch in to other fire users.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/heatran
There are some examples of good movesets for heatran on this page. I'm sure you can use this as a reference when you set up your sunny day using one.

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Last edited by Face on Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:37 am
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Though off topic, I was looking at /vXv\\'s siggy, and noticed he claims to be a mewtwo, houndoom, and tyranitar at the same time. Now, me being me, I got to thinking..

... what would a cross between those three actually look like? Well, I was bored, and decided to find out.

Here is what I got...
Image + Image + Image = Image


Creppy, huh?

P.S. In b4 ''lol u cnt drawl spritz'' this abomination was created in a minute using MS paint.

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Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:05 am
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If you decide to use heatran as a sunny day start, I'd say try this set.

{heatran} @ Leftovers
Modest/Flash Fire
Ev:252 Hp, 16 Sp Atk, 240 Sp Def
Will-O-Wisp
Sunny Day/Stealth Rock/Substitue
Overheat/Magma Storm/FlameThrower/Fire Blast/Heat Wave
Roar/Earth Power/Dragon Pulse/Sunny Day

This is a very slightly modified version of the burn support version on Smogon. You should have sunny day in either the second or fourth slot, and the rest depends on what you want your heatran to be able to do.

Will-O-Wisp will be great to weaken your opponents Physical fighters and do some extra damage as well.

If you can, get another stealth rock user, since you don't wanna waste too much time setting up. Sunny day should probably be the one you pick for your second slot.

As for your main attack, Overheat will do great damage after sunny day, and especially if you get a switch in on a fire attack and activate Flash Fire. However, losing Sp. Atk hurts, which is why you can also choose between Magma Storm, Flamethrower, Heat Wave, or Fire Blast.

Magma Storm has 120 base damage and a side effect similar to Fire Spin, which works wonders coupled with Will-O-Wisp, but it has 5pp and only has 70% accuracy, which hurts its usefulness over time.

Flamethrower is the neutral of all the attack choices, having 95 base attack, 15pp, and 100% accuracy.

Heat Wave has 10pp and 90% accuracy, but has 100 base attack, so its an okay alternative to Flamethrower, though I personally would take flamethrower over this.

Finally, there is Fire Blast, which has a base attack of 120, and 5pp, but it has 85% accuracy, which is better then magma storms 75%.

I personally recommend Flamethrower, but it's really up to you which you use.

And for the fourth and final move, You can either use roar to spread Will-O-Wisp around your enemies team and to Psuedo-Haze, use Earth Power or Dragon Pulse as a secondary attack , or place Sunny Day here if you decided to use Stealth rock/Substitute.

I hope this information was helpful.

~ Face

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Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:32 am
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^^ Face, its called the edit button. go ahead and use it, the button wont bite.

i say go for a jumpluff.

Jumpluff @ Heat Rock/Lefties
Jolly | Chlorophyll
252 Speed, 129 Def, 129 S. Def
-Sunny Day
-Sleep Powder/Stun Spore
-U-turn
-Leech Seed/Substitute

come in, set up the sun, and blaze ahead of everyone with a 700 max speed. after that, go ahead and put em to sleep or paralyze them, whichever you prefer. leech seed with heat rock, subby with lefties, and u-turn to get away from any threats.


Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:18 pm
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Thank you for the help, now time to get to work :D


Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:08 pm
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hubba wrote:
^^ Face, its called the edit button. go ahead and use it, the button wont bite.


Lies! It's already bitten twice :(

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Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:52 pm
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Focus Sash Shiftry also works. Sun up then explode with x2 speed

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Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:02 am
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Magmotar@heat rock/focus sash nature:timid
Sday
solarbeam
flamethrower
focus blast

a super strong magmotar that can defeat all his weakness wif a solarbeam n flamethrower deals double the power in sunny day as well focus blast is the powerfullest special base fighting type attack n useful when dealing wif snorlax n can be used even if sunny day is not in effect as 4 the items heat rock if u r sure u can use it without getting pawned in the first round or u could use focus sash or if u 1 it 2 be a backup if sunny day is over or replaced n also rmr 2 put EV's


Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:16 am
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hubba wrote:
^^ Face, its called the edit button. go ahead and use it, the button wont bite.

i say go for a jumpluff.

Jumpluff @ Heat Rock/Lefties
Jolly | Chlorophyll
252 Speed, 129 Def, 129 S. Def
-Sunny Day
-Sleep Powder/Stun Spore
-U-turn
-Leech Seed/Substitute

come in, set up the sun, and blaze ahead of everyone with a 700 max speed. after that, go ahead and put em to sleep or paralyze them, whichever you prefer. leech seed with heat rock, subby with lefties, and u-turn to get away from any threats.


focus sash's a better item though jumpluff can easily get pawned in the round it uses sunny day n if up againts a fire type or weavile it won be usefull at all leech seed can be replaced wif synthesis/solarbeam/giga drain/ momento if u 1 to though


Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:30 am
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Max_LKC wrote:

focus sash's a better item though jumpluff can easily get pawned in the round it uses sunny day n if up againts a fire type or weavile it won be usefull at all leech seed can be replaced wif synthesis/solarbeam/giga drain/ momento if u 1 to though


Hence the benefit of having a nice fire type/flash fire user of your own to switch in in case of those leads. :lol: Though focus sash is a decent option for surprise scarf leads. Also, given that the set is focused on defense, Encore or Reflect are good options for the last slot. Solarbeam and giga drain are going to do nothing off a bass 55 s.atk stat...

Max_LKC wrote:
Magmotar@heat rock/focus sash nature:timid
Sday
solarbeam
flamethrower
focus blast


Timid nature is no good with it's speed unless you give it a scarf, which means it'll need Sday support from another poke. I'd do modest or mild w/cross chop or mach punch over F-blast. As snorlax and blissey will not mind unstabbed focus blast especially with it's accuracy >.< T-bolt is also an option over solarbeam if you cant guarantee him a Sday or a set up turn.

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Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:24 pm
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With Platinum giving more Pokemon access to priority moves such as Bullet Punch and Vacuum Wave, Focus Sash is becoming an obsolete item. That, and being able to just switch Tyranitar or Hippowdon to end your little Sunny parade, Sandstorm also ruins your fun.

And failing those two, with Stealth Rock being a given that it will be on the field, unless you're leading with a Sashed Poke, it's going to be a wasted item.

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Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:20 am
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This is quite lengthy and may need to be split between two posts.

Are you doing a Standard Single team or Double Battle team?

If you go with Double Battles, you cannot overlook Cherrim with Sunny Day and Heat Rock (gimmicky, but it helps). Lava Plume works well in hot sun by hitting all other Pokemon, especially helpful if the Lava-Plume-user's helper has Flash Fire.

If you go with Single Battles, you want a fast or defensive Fire or Grass Type (preferably with Chlorophyll) to set up Sunny Day. You also want at least two users to prevent Rain (bad for both Fire types and Solarbeam users), Sandstorm (just plain bad), and Hail (see previous statement). The only fully evolved Grass Types with 95+ base Speed are Jumpluff (110) and Sceptile (120), but I'd recommend Jumpluff slightly more because both of its Abilities work using strong sunlight.

For Fire with base Speed 95+ (barring legendary Pokemon):
Infernape (108)
Rapidash (105)
Charizard, Ninetales, Typhlosion (100)
Arcanine, Houndoom (95)
They are your best bets for getting bright sun going quickly.

For Fire with either base defense at 80+ (barring legendary Pokemon):
Charizard (P 78, S 85, 4x Rock Weak)
Ninetales (P 75, S 100)
Arcanine (P & S 80)
Rapidash (P 70, S 80)
Flareon (P 60, S 110)
Typhlosion (P 78, S 85)
Magcargo (P 120, S 80, safe from Sandstorms, Sp.Def boosted by Sandstorm, 4x Water Weak, 4x Ground Weak)
Houndoom (P 50, S 80)
Torkoal (P 140, S 70)
Magmortar (P 67, S 95)

For Grass with either base defense at 80+ (barring legendary Pokemon):
Venusaur (P 83, S 100)
Vileplume (P 85, S 90, Chlorophyll)
Parasect (P 80, S 80, 4x Fire Weak, AVOID Dry Skin with Sunny Day sets)
Exeggutor (P 85, S 65, Chlorophyll, 4x Bug Weak)
Meganium (P & S 100)
Bellossom (P 85, S 100, Chlorophyll)
Jumpluff (P 70, S 85, Chlorophyll, Leaf Guard, 4x Ice Weak)
Sunflora (P 55, S 85, Chlorophyll, Solar Power)
Sceptile (P 65, S 85)
Cradily (P 97, S 107, safe from Sandstorms, Sp.Def. boosted by Sandstorm)
Breloom (P 80, S 60, 4x Flying Weak)
Tropius (P 83, S 87, Chlorophyll, Solar Power, 4x Ice Weak)
Torterra (P 105, S 85, safe from Sandstorms)
Roserade (P 55, S 105, learns Weather Ball)
Leaf Cloak Wormadam (P 85, S 105, 4x Fire Weak)
Tangrowth (P 125, S 50, Chlorophyll, Leaf Guard)
Leafeon (P 130, S 65, Leaf Guard)

I recommend taking Cradily, Torterra, or Magcargo for fear of the Sand Stream Ability, and Sceptile, Jumpluff, or Rapidash for quick Sunny Day setup.

Here are a few of my recommendations:

{jumpluff} Chlorophyll, Naughty/Rash/Naive, Focus Sash/Heat Rock
EV Spread: 252 Speed, 129 Attack, 129 Sp.Atk.
Sunny Day
Solarbeam
U-Turn
Aerial Ace/Bounce
Sun up then Solarbeam or Bounce. Yes, Bounce folks. Sure it's a 2 turn move, but a 30% chance of Paralysis is almost always a good thing. Catch an opponent on the switch with it and things will be so much easier (especially VS Garchomp, whose key attribute is its Physical Sweeping tendencies). If they Protect/Detect, just U-Turn out to another Solarbeam user or a powerful Fire attack user that resists the opponents moves. Leaf Guard doesn't get much use due to its natural fragility.

{castform} Modest/Timid, Heat Rock/Wise Glasses/Life Orb
EV Spread: 252 Speed, 88 Defense, 88 Sp.Def., 82 Sp.Atk.
Sunny Day
Solarbeam
Weather Ball
Thunder/Blizzard
I know it has base 70 stats across the board, but it can be surprising with this set. Sunny-Beam and Sunny-Ball are your bread and butter moves, only resisted by Fire and Dragon Types (but it does get neutral hits on Charizard, Moltres, Magcargo, Kingdra, Ho-oh, Numel/Camerupt, Vibrava/Flygon, Gible/Gabite/Garchomp, Palkia, and Dialga). Thunder/Blizzard is there if the opponent feels the need for Rain/Hail (Blizzard gets neutral hits on Abomasnow and Thunder shuts down any Water Type that doesn't have Volt Absorb and isn't also Ground Type). Just AVOID Sandstorm like the plague.

{cradily} Bold, Heat Rock/Leftovers
EV Spread: 86 HP, 252 Defense, 172 Sp.Def.
Sunny Day
Solarbeam
Stealth Rock | Barrier (Egg)
Toxic/Tickle (Egg) | Mirror Coat (Egg)
Sunny-Beam's back. Stealth Rock + Toxic will make Defenders panic and Stealth Rock + Tickle can cause Physical Sweepers some switch dilemma headaches (switch out and get hit by Stealth Rock or stay and get mowed down by a Physical Sweeper switching in). Setting Garchomp up for an Ice Shard KO with multiple Tickles is another reason for its use (its base 95 Defense looks pretty scary, but it almost always gets neglected for the Physical Sweeper EV Spread). Barrier & Mirror Coat will make them go slow or go down swinging. Sandstorm is a blessing to its already wonderful Sp.Def. Stat, plus the added immunity is a joy.
Note: Tickle and Barrier + Mirror Coat are mutually exclusive.

{smeargle} Technician, Hasty/Naive, Focus Sash/Expert Belt/Scope Lens/Razor Claw
EV Spread: 252 Speed, 129 Sp.Atk., 129 Attack
Solarbeam
Flamethrower
Ice Shard
Bonemerang
This Smeargle synergizes well with the aforementioned Stealth-Tickle Cradily. Solarbeam and Flamethrower for the sun, Ice Shard for turning Garchomp into a Gar-chump. Bonemerang is effectively a STAB Earthquake with 90% accuracy that can break Substitutes and deal damage all in one go thanks to Technician, and, with the other moves, covers all Pokemon for at least neutral hits. Hasty/Naive is preferable with Smeargle's Speed issues.

{donphan} Adamant/Jolly, Muscle Band/Life Orb/Choice Band/Choice Scarf/Liechi Berry
EV Spread: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
Fire Fang
Ice Shard (Egg)
Earthquake
Thunder Fang/Seed Bomb (need Platinum tutors for Seed Bomb)/Rapid Spin
Fire Fang for the Sunny Day, Ice Shard for Garchomp, Earthquake STAB, 4th move is for Water Types (use Jolly + Choice Scarf if you intend to face them, otherwise go with Adamant and one of the other items) or spinning away hazards. The added Sandstorm immunity is also a perk.

{typhlosion} Modest/Timid, Choice Specs/Choice Scarf/Wise Glasses/Salac Berry
EV Spread: 252 Speed, 252 Sp.Atk., 6 Attack OR 6 Defense
Eruption
Solarbeam
Hidden Power (Ice)
Crush Claw (Egg)
Why Crush Claw with an Attack Lowering Nature? The 50% chance of lowering Defense 1 level can quickly add damage up. Typhlosion is THE Eruption user. Base 109 Sp.Atk. and base 100 Speed leads Typhlosion to swift, merciless victory short of Flash Fire. Hidden Power's Type was chosen to deal with Dragons who otherwise resist Fire and Grass as before. Only switch in if there are no entry hazards, you have a free turn (from Hyper Beam, Blast Burn, Hydro Cannon, Frenzy Plant, Roar of Time, or Giga Impact recovery, one of your Pokemon fainting, lucky chance from Roar/Whirlwind, etc.), and the weather is bright sunlight or clear skies.

With these 6 you have to watch out for your 3 weaknesses to Ice (Jumpluff is 4x) in all weather, 3 weaknesses to Fighting in clear skies, hail, and sandstorm, 3 weaknesses to Water (but with reduced damage) in the bright sunlight, and 3 weaknesses to Rock during bright sunlight or hail. However, with properly timed switches, you have resistances and immunities to all except Flying Type attacks.

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Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:25 am
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The Obsidian Wolf wrote:

And failing those two, with Stealth Rock being a given that it will be on the field, unless you're leading with a Sashed Poke, it's going to be a wasted item.


And even then you need the sashed poke either to be a weather changer or immune to sandstorm to reliably make use of the sash. Though if it can get in with Sday/RS/wish support sash+counter is definely one of the best sweeper stoppers late game.

Kraleck wrote:

{jumpluff} Chlorophyll, Naughty/Rash/Naive, Focus Sash/Heat Rock
EV Spread: 252 Speed, 129 Attack, 129 Sp.Atk.
Sunny Day
Solarbeam
U-Turn
Aerial Ace/Bounce


Attack investments of either kind is basically wasted on jumpluff, as weather changers can come in on S.beam and get a free hit as well as take his now-reduced paltry attack. and why bounce's 30% paralysys chance with stun spore is 75% also bounce tends to waste away the sunny day.

For Castform, why thunder/blizzard on a Sday set when Ice beam and T-bolt are 100% acc and dont get the negative effects in the sun? that way he has better coverage even in the sun. and weatherball becomes ice-type in hail...

Cradily looks good, just I'd use something other than solarbeam since it's just as good if not better in sandstorm if the opponent sets one up. and the above mentioned drawback to Sbeam. Seed bomb or giga drain(since the set is tank oriented)

I like the thought of bonemerang+Technician, though with his low attack I'd say focused on either physical or special, not both

Eruption on Typhlosion is only good if it's scarfed and if it's leading. otherwise use flamethrower/lava plume or overheat(on choiced sets)

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Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:51 pm
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MasterChef wrote:
Kraleck wrote:

{jumpluff} Chlorophyll, Naughty/Rash/Naive, Focus Sash/Heat Rock
EV Spread: 252 Speed, 129 Attack, 129 Sp.Atk.
Sunny Day
Solarbeam
U-Turn
Aerial Ace/Bounce


Attack investments of either kind is basically wasted on jumpluff, as weather changers can come in on S.beam and get a free hit as well as take his now-reduced paltry attack. and why bounce's 30% paralysys chance with stun spore is 75% also bounce tends to waste away the sunny day.


Why waste a turn to get a free status effect with 75% accuracy, no damage, and a high risk of getting KO'd without doing damage when you can chip off some HP 85% of the time and get the added effect in the process by 30% chance?

How soon you can get a Sunny Day going is the main attraction. Generic players see Sunny-Beam as a usual one-dimensional tactic and opt to switch in a Grass resistant Pokemon. If they switch in a grass resistant Pokemon that is weak to Bug or Flying (especially Dark, Psychic, and Grass Types) you just sprung the perfect trap with Bounce and U-Turn. With Bounce, you will have them deciding whether to take a hit and get a hit in or switch to a Flying resistant Pokemon and do no damage. With U-Turn, you have time to contemplate your next Pokemon to counter or scare off their foolish switch.

The Flying Type move choice between a guaranteed hit with lower power and a 2 turn, 85% accuracy, 30% Paralysis chance hit with higher power just gives you more options. A single status effect at the right time can sway a battle. With Bounce you'll at least get a chance of a hit and a chance of Paralysis before getting KO'd. Plus chipping off health and returning later with U-Turn keeps Jumpluff's potential survivability high. Chipping off any health can frustrate a Focus Sasher to no end.

MasterChef wrote:

For Castform, why thunder/blizzard on a Sday set when Ice beam and T-bolt are 100% acc and dont get the negative effects in the sun? that way he has better coverage even in the sun. and weatherball becomes ice-type in hail...


Already mentioned the just in case of scenarios where the opponent makes a switch to rain or hail. Thunder and Blizzard become 100% accurate in rain and hail (respectively) and Blizzard still outpowers Weather Ball's base power in hail by 20 points.

MasterChef wrote:

Cradily looks good, just I'd use something other than solarbeam since it's just as good if not better in sandstorm if the opponent sets one up. and the above mentioned drawback to Sbeam. Seed bomb or giga drain(since the set is tank oriented)


Sunny-Beam is there if the opponent doesn't use a Sandstorm set. If you somehow know ahead of time you'll face a Sandstorm set, Seed Bomb (replacing Bold with Impish) or Giga Drain. Generally your opponent will use Sandstorms if it's good for them, not you. If they know you use a Cradily or any Rock Type, they will avoid raising sandstorms around it.

MasterChef wrote:

I like the thought of bonemerang+Technician, though with his low attack I'd say focused on either physical or special, not both


Need to mention the possibility of facing Pokemon with Substitute and Counter or Mirror Coat. With a mix of Physical and Special moves, you'll at least make them resort to their non-Counter, non-Mirror Coat moves when they see Physical hits from Ice Shard or Bonemerang (hopefully smashing Substitutes and chipping off health with boosted chances of critical hits from Scope Lens and Razor Claw) followed by a Special hit from Solarbeam or Flamethrower. Or guess and pray you used the move-type they can counterattack if they risk it.

If you can get the Sun boost for Solarbeam and Flamethrower, you're good to go. If you can't and you need a quick hit, Ice Shard. If you can't and you need to break a Sub, Bonemerang. Contingency plans help keep your opponent on their toes.

MasterChef wrote:

Eruption on Typhlosion is only good if it's scarfed and if it's leading. otherwise use flamethrower/lava plume or overheat(on choiced sets)


And the fact that there are some people who may not use entry hazards or Sandstorm/Hail never crossed your mind? If you know you can get a good setup, Eruption. If not, go with the others.

Overall, keep the opponent guessing. These setups sound strange, but a keen mind under pressure and a sharp sense of contingency plans wins battles more often than just rushing in and smashing everything in sight. Brute force may work more for artificial intelligence and precision clockwork plans, but natural intelligence and adjustable plans are key for player VS player.

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Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:27 am
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Kraleck wrote:


Why waste a turn to get a free status effect with 75% accuracy, no damage, and a high risk of getting KO'd without doing damage when you can chip off some HP 85% of the time and get the added effect in the process by 30% chance?
How soon you can get a Sunny Day going is the main attraction. Generic players see Sunny-Beam as a usual one-dimensional tactic and opt to switch in a Grass resistant Pokemon. If they switch in a grass resistant Pokemon that is weak to Bug or Flying (especially Dark, Psychic, and Grass Types) you just sprung the perfect trap with Bounce and U-Turn. With Bounce, you will have them deciding whether to take a hit and get a hit in or switch to a Flying resistant Pokemon and do no damage. With U-Turn, you have time to contemplate your next Pokemon to counter or scare off their foolish switch.
The Flying Type move choice between a guaranteed hit with lower power and a 2 turn, 85% accuracy, 30% Paralysis chance hit with higher power just gives you more options. A single status effect at the right time can sway a battle. With Bounce you'll at least get a chance of a hit and a chance of Paralysis before getting KO'd. Plus chipping off health and returning later with U-Turn keeps Jumpluff's potential survivability high. Chipping off any health can frustrate a Focus Sasher to no end.



Except off Jumpluff's attack even pokes weak to the hit wont sustain much damage. and the paralyze chance after move accuracy is factored in is about 25%. Stun spore gives 75% paralyze with an 18% of them being fully paralyzed that same turn, in which you can follow up with a more accurate or damaging hit.

Also Protect is a fairly common move on lead pokes, which will completely block bounce every time.

Kraleck wrote:

Already mentioned the just in case of scenarios where the opponent makes a switch to rain or hail. Thunder and Blizzard become 100% accurate in rain and hail (respectively) and Blizzard still outpowers Weather Ball's base power in hail by 20 points.


Is 20 points really worth a moveslot though? I highly doubt it brings anything into a OHKO range that weather ball wouldn't esp. with castform's power. Also I'd have to think most pokes in a hail team are ice-type so it'll likely be resisted if that's your main plan for it. Otherwise your limiting yourself to just fire/grass coverage which is walled by about all fire or dragon types


Kraleck wrote:

Sunny-Beam is there if the opponent doesn't use a Sandstorm set. If you somehow know ahead of time you'll face a Sandstorm set, Seed Bomb (replacing Bold with Impish) or Giga Drain. Generally your opponent will use Sandstorms if it's good for them, not you. If they know you use a Cradily or any Rock Type, they will avoid raising sandstorms around it.


Except for when they realize your only attack is a two-turn grass attack, and they can even then one can just sit and stall you with a blissey, snorlax or any fire/poison/steel type.


I forgot to finish my last sentence on the first post :oops: I meant to add in rock slide/stone edge.

Kraleck wrote:

Need to mention the possibility of facing Pokemon with Substitute and Counter or Mirror Coat. With a mix of Physical and Special moves, you'll at least make them resort to their non-Counter, non-Mirror Coat moves when they see Physical hits from Ice Shard or Bonemerang (hopefully smashing Substitutes and chipping off health with boosted chances of critical hits from Scope Lens and Razor Claw) followed by a Special hit from Solarbeam or Flamethrower. Or guess and pray you used the move-type they can counterattack if they risk it.
If you can get the Sun boost for Solarbeam and Flamethrower, you're good to go. If you can't and you need a quick hit, Ice Shard. If you can't and you need to break a Sub, Bonemerang. Contingency plans help keep your opponent on their toes.


Except I really don't see someone using counter/mirror coat on something with such low HP and defenses.. and you do know smeargle's base attack stats are only 20? Even with technician I don't see him breaking anything but maybe a jolteon's sub with 1st bomemerang even on a critical hit. Ice shard has good usage simply of it's priority.


Kraleck wrote:

And the fact that there are some people who may not use entry hazards or Sandstorm/Hail never crossed your mind? If you know you can get a good setup, Eruption. If not, go with the others.


True, but as Obsidian wolf mentioned above SR is quite common in competitive play and it takes 25% of his health on a switch in. If you can get it running at 100%HP it'll be great but it's high-risk medium-reward when there are other moves that'll do just as good even if he happens to take damage first.


Kraleck wrote:

Overall, keep the opponent guessing. These setups sound strange, but a keen mind under pressure and a sharp sense of contingency plans wins battles more often than just rushing in and smashing everything in sight. Brute force may work more for artificial intelligence and precision clockwork plans, but natural intelligence and adjustable plans are key for player VS player.


I completely agree.

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Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:40 pm
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MasterChef wrote:
Max_LKC wrote:

focus sash's a better item though jumpluff can easily get pawned in the round it uses sunny day n if up againts a fire type or weavile it won be usefull at all leech seed can be replaced wif synthesis/solarbeam/giga drain/ momento if u 1 to though


Hence the benefit of having a nice fire type/flash fire user of your own to switch in in case of those leads. :lol: Though focus sash is a decent option for surprise scarf leads. Also, given that the set is focused on defense, Encore or Reflect are good options for the last slot. Solarbeam and giga drain are going to do nothing off a bass 55 s.atk stat...

Max_LKC wrote:
Magmotar@heat rock/focus sash nature:timid
Sday
solarbeam
flamethrower
focus blast


Timid nature is no good with it's speed unless you give it a scarf, which means it'll need Sday support from another poke. I'd do modest or mild w/cross chop or mach punch over F-blast. As snorlax and blissey will not mind unstabbed focus blast especially with it's accuracy >.< T-bolt is also an option over solarbeam if you cant guarantee him a Sday or a set up turn.


having high spd is just as important magmotar has low def stat so it could be pawned by earthquake in the 1st round and focus sash is a better item 4 magmotar solarbeam ko all the types he lose 2 n with timid nature 2 outspeed most of the other pkm it could at least pawned 2-3 pkm n jumpluff dosent have much offensive moves which gives it a major disadvantage considering it has 4x weakness 2 ice n even if it set up Sday a fire type atk can totally fry it n solarbeam is 4 all the water types cuz mainly all water types has ice type attacks n furthemore if up againts a water type that could outspd it without focus sash n a strong grass type atk its all over 4 it


Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:45 am
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Max_LKC wrote:
having high spd is just as important magmotar has low def stat so it could be pawned by earthquake in the 1st round and focus sash is a better item 4 magmotar solarbeam ko all the types he lose 2 n with timid nature 2 outspeed most of the other pkm it could at least pawned 2-3 pkm


Well, it's true that speed investment can help against some pokes. However your either going to have to lose EVs in either HP, which will make him even more frail. Or S.atk, which will hinder his ability to sweep. for the return of outspeeding a somewhat small speed group of pokes. And as noted above focus sash is extremely limited if it's not on your lead esp. if SR is in play and knocks 25% of magmotar's HP from the start.

Max_LKC wrote:
n jumpluff dosent have much offensive moves which gives it a major disadvantage considering it has 4x weakness 2 ice n even if it set up Sday a fire type atk can totally fry it n solarbeam is 4 all the water types cuz mainly all water types has ice type attacks n furthemore if up againts a water type that could outspd it without focus sash n a strong grass type atk its all over 4 it


Cept solarbeam fails to OHKO any water type that isn't 4x weak, and I highly doubt anything who is 4x weak would stay in on a grass-type to begin with. And buliker waters like milotic and vaporeon can shrug off Sbeam with ease.

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Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:28 am
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MasterChef wrote:
Except off Jumpluff's attack even pokes weak to the hit wont sustain much damage. and the paralyze chance after move accuracy is factored in is about 25%. Stun spore gives 75% paralyze with an 18% of them being fully paralyzed that same turn, in which you can follow up with a more accurate or damaging hit.

Also Protect is a fairly common move on lead pokes, which will completely block bounce every time.


Yes, but the off chance they don't have Protect/Detect and switched something else in (not too common on sweepers) makes it worth the surprise when you get the free hit from their switch. Or you can use U-Turn instead to get out prior to Protect/Detect.

If they do have Protect/Detect, they most likely won't use them as a first move. Since Protect & Detect are mostly used as the first move to scout the opponent's moves and Jumpluff's attacks are so puny, Protect/Detect would be stupid to lead with because Jumpluff would most likely set up a Sunny Day, wasting a Protect/Detect, leading to them getting blasted by a Solarbeam next turn due to repeated use accuracy issues. They'll either switch and get Bounced or stay and get U-Turned (Jumpluff player has to make a judgment call on what to do here).

MasterChef wrote:
Is 20 points really worth a moveslot though? I highly doubt it brings anything into a OHKO range that weather ball wouldn't esp. with castform's power. Also I'd have to think most pokes in a hail team are ice-type so it'll likely be resisted if that's your main plan for it. Otherwise your limiting yourself to just fire/grass coverage which is walled by about all fire or dragon types


Which is why it's only an option. I have a team setup that switches regularly between Hail and Sandstorm that features Tyranitar, Mamoswine, Abomasnow, & Hippowdon (all taking at least neutral hits from Blizzard, barring Sandstorm effects and accuracy issues).

MasterChef wrote:
Except for when they realize your only attack is a two-turn grass attack, and they can even then one can just sit and stall you with a blissey, snorlax or any fire/poison/steel type.


Yeah, but the point of the Tickle option allows you to soften them up for Smeargle (who cannot hit or take one) or dropping a potential 2-3KO down to a 1KO from Rock Slide/Stone Edge/a moderately powerful physical sweeper (in case you switch/faint).

MasterChef wrote:
Except I really don't see someone using counter/mirror coat on something with such low HP and defenses.. and you do know smeargle's base attack stats are only 20? Even with technician I don't see him breaking anything but maybe a jolteon's sub with 1st bomemerang even on a critical hit. Ice shard has good usage simply of it's priority.


Yes, but planned support and chipping away when they switch helps in the long run.

MasterChef wrote:
True, but as Obsidian wolf mentioned above SR is quite common in competitive play and it takes 25% of his health on a switch in. If you can get it running at 100%HP it'll be great but it's high-risk medium-reward when there are other moves that'll do just as good even if he happens to take damage first.


That's why you have Donphan for Rapid Spin support. Once the SR users and any Entry/Weather hazard threats are gone, Typhlosion is good to go at 100%. Until then, you have other Pokemon (hopefully) to pick up the slack.

MasterChef wrote:
I completely agree.


Thanks. I like to multi-strategize while making a team. That's why the above set gave me some problems when limiting it to a Sunny Day team.

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Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:37 am
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Kraleck wrote:


Yes, but the off chance they don't have Protect/Detect and switched something else in (not too common on sweepers) makes it worth the surprise when you get the free hit from their switch. Or you can use U-Turn instead to get out prior to Protect/Detect.

This goes back to my first point, why settle for a nip of damage and 25% paralyzing over 75% paralyzing, the latter would be much more efficient to shut down a counter if your expecting a switch-in. Also you get no "free" turn from bounce because it's a 2-turn move. Unless something faster comes in on the jump up, which is a small chance and basically 0% if Sday is up.


Kraleck wrote:

If they do have Protect/Detect, they most likely won't use them as a first move. Since Protect & Detect are mostly used as the first move to scout the opponent's moves


Aside from speed boosting leads that would fear stun spore/sleep powder as well as guts leads like heracross/swellow who want their orb to take effect, and then you have scouts and Subs+stat uppers who would get a least 1 boost in before sday+sbeam is launched as well as a 1st turn bounce hits.


Kraleck wrote:

Which is why it's only an option. I have a team setup that switches regularly between Hail and Sandstorm that features Tyranitar, Mamoswine, Abomasnow, & Hippowdon (all taking at least neutral hits from Blizzard, barring Sandstorm effects and accuracy issues).


Uhhh ok, what does that have to do with castform? O_o T-bolt is still a better general option.


Kraleck wrote:

Yeah, but the point of the Tickle option allows you to soften them up for Smeargle (who cannot hit or take one) or dropping a potential 2-3KO down to a 1KO from Rock Slide/Stone Edge/a moderately powerful physical sweeper (in case you switch/faint).


Your going to need at least 3-4 tickles to bring smergle to decent attacking range, also what is keeping the opponent from just switching out?

Kraleck wrote:

That's why you have Donphan for Rapid Spin support. Once the SR users and any Entry/Weather hazard threats are gone, Typhlosion is good to go at 100%. Until then, you have other Pokemon (hopefully) to pick up the slack.


Rapid spin does not guarantee a hazard free entry, many people know rapid spinners and block them effectively with ghosts if they have a strong emphasis on them. Typhlosion will also have to worry about priority attacks (becoming more common every day...) and any poke over 110 base speed will efficiently shut eruption down for the rest of the game. hence why I feel there are better options esp. with blaze as it's ability.



[

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:59 am
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MasterChef wrote:
Max_LKC wrote:
having high spd is just as important magmotar has low def stat so it could be pawned by earthquake in the 1st round and focus sash is a better item 4 magmotar solarbeam ko all the types he lose 2 n with timid nature 2 outspeed most of the other pkm it could at least pawned 2-3 pkm


Well, it's true that speed investment can help against some pokes. However your either going to have to lose EVs in either HP, which will make him even more frail. Or S.atk, which will hinder his ability to sweep. for the return of outspeeding a somewhat small speed group of pokes. And as noted above focus sash is extremely limited if it's not on your lead esp. if SR is in play and knocks 25% of magmotar's HP from the start.

Max_LKC wrote:
n jumpluff dosent have much offensive moves which gives it a major disadvantage considering it has 4x weakness 2 ice n even if it set up Sday a fire type atk can totally fry it n solarbeam is 4 all the water types cuz mainly all water types has ice type attacks n furthemore if up againts a water type that could outspd it without focus sash n a strong grass type atk its all over 4 it


Cept solarbeam fails to OHKO any water type that isn't 4x weak, and I highly doubt anything who is 4x weak would stay in on a grass-type to begin with. And buliker waters like milotic and vaporeon can shrug off Sbeam with ease.


Having 252SPD and 252SPATK EV'S is already very good lyk u said some pkm need spd and as far as i noe magmotar seriously need spd and at least solarbeam can do massive damage so that the next pkm can sweep it wif ease.


Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:28 am
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