Why is Umbreon deemed as ineffective in D/P? I checked its stats and they seem to have what a good tank needs: Decent HP and high def and spD. Vaporeon has higher HP, much less defense, and its spD is about as high as Umbreon's HP, but it is deemed as a good wall.

Is it the typing, or is the HP too low? Base 95 seems reasonable.

Well,i dunno...
Maybe because most of threats now are choice banded/Specsed ...
Or maybe because of the growth of Residual damage like stelath rock,spikes,sandstorm...
Maybe because he don't have the luxury of wasting turns...
But i still think it's a good pokémon though...
Curse + Payback + Baton Pass +Wish...

Friendly Video response about why i like :

Youtube

But why then, is Vaporeon considered more effective? Is it because of its good spA stat? It can hit pretty hard (depends on foe).

Edit: Just watched your video, and that was a pretty cool Umbreon. Did you have to invest any attack EVs, or was all that damage from 4 curses.

Maybe because Vappy has more HP...Better typing...
And he can actually Attack without needing other moves to setting up...

I always thought that HP wasn't that necessary; I thought as long as you had high enough defenses, it didn't matter as much. Guess I was wrong.

Well my opinion isn't may be wrong...
For example...
You switch your Umbreon in a Bulkyrados with some dragon dances...
with taunt,dragon dance will end up owning you...
But a vaporeon can actually Ice Beam/hidden power electric him...
And since gyarados don't want to take the risk it will be switched out or killed...

I guess can counter some things that can't...

I guess Umbreon can't scare as many things. XD Your Umbreon was pretty scary though. Did you have to invest attack evs? Or was that power from 4 Curses?

No...Actually that his evs are Hp & Sp.Def Max...
Yep...never understimate the Umby power...
Thanks for watching the video...

i'm with you on this one...i dont know why it's uses have dropped either....but i just say, it is too easy to counter and set up on....ie: too many close combats, brick breaks, aura sphere, focus blast...and bug buzz and X-scissor....and here's my thing about them...everytime i see one, my eyes start to shine, because now i can send in my lucario/scizor to set up on them, to set up on them while they cant do a thing....the best they can do is mean look(on the switch) and then try to baton pass to a counter....and other than what bushin said about the curse+payback combo...i dont see it much of an offensive threat...and taunt will ruin umbreon no matter what set he runs...

Mm, yeah, doesn't sound too effective. Poor, poor Umbreon. Maybe next generation, eh?

Do you think it would help if it could learn spikes, toxic spikes, stealth rock, or roar?

Actually,he can learn roar...



That pretty much said everything...
But in the Aura Sphere case,i think Umbreon has a chance of surviving...
386 Sp.Def is something that few can be proud of...
But i don' think that it might change the fact that it's one of my favorites though...