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It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:20 am
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Zenrot
Psychic Trainer
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:02 am Posts: 78
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what are the best walls/tanks to use in competetive battle? the best one i was thinking of using so far was bronzong, but i could use some reccomendations of other pokemon.
_________________ I want to be The very best Like no one ever was
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:20 am |
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Mr.Chaos
Dragon Tamer
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 1:37 pm Posts: 151 Location: In a castle fighting zombies
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You could use a umbreon, those guys have a excelent defense and spc.defense
_________________
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:27 am |
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Sapphirath
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:25 am Posts: 627 Location: Singapore
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There are Blisseys, Dusknoirs and Skarmories too. There are many others who have the potential to wall and tank with moves like Amnesia and Iron Defense.
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:10 am |
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The Obsidian Wolf
Pokemon Master
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:03 am Posts: 1559 Location: Dragon's Den
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...how has Skarm Bliss not been mentioned?
Skarmory: Mass Defence, and lovely typing; weak to Electric and Fire, but has immunity to Steel's most promintent weakness; Ground. Add in its useful resistance to Normal and Dragon, and this thing can switch in on a lot of things, and wreak havoc.
Blissey: With the highest HP in the game, and a very large Spdef stat, Blissey is the world's best Spdefensive wall. Plus, it gets a recovery move in the form of Softboiled, and can stop a sweeper in its tracks with Toxic and / or Seismic Toss.
They're just the common ones, others are welcome to suggest the others.
EDIT: Sapp beat me to it, and yeah, Dusknoir's another good one (I have one, how did I miss that? <<;)
_________________"Play with fire and expect to be burned."
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:13 am |
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Zenrot
Psychic Trainer
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:02 am Posts: 78
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could you give me a movest for dusknoir? im going to use that one i think, but i dont know how to go about it.
_________________ I want to be The very best Like no one ever was
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:27 am |
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The Obsidian Wolf
Pokemon Master
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:03 am Posts: 1559 Location: Dragon's Den
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Dusknoir@Lefties
Impish Nature
Pain Split
Ice Punch
Will o Wisp
Shadow Sneak
This is mainly a set that you use to counter physical sweepers. You burn them, you recover away the damage, reducing their's with Pain Split, and then finish them off with SSneak. Ice Punch is for the dragons that think they can stat up on you.
It's pretty standard, and as for EVs: Don't go putting all 252 into HP, as it will makwe Pain Split weaker. HOwever, you will need enough to survive some attacks, in order to Pain Split them back.
_________________"Play with fire and expect to be burned."
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:37 am |
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AABM
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:12 am Posts: 510 Location: Where you MOST expect it.
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Before, the word was "Skarmbliss" as to what seemed the best defensive combination. But now, I'd say the word is rather "Skarmblisselia" for that matter.
The competitive battle's got three guys that work marvels when used together; these are Skarmory, Blissey and Cresselia. Ye Olde Skarmbliss combo got an addition in Cressy, it's 120Def/130Sp.Def, Levitate and Moonlight (not very reliable unless Sunny Day is taken in consideration) are definitely a good thing to include when solid walling is needed.
Just beware Blaziken/Infernape, these guys have the most useful and sordid combo of moves in Overheat, Brick Break(or [Powerful phisical Fighting-type move] and Night Slash to deal with the three of them. Making the "Anti-Skarmblisselia moveset"!
_________________AABM's"Team Seekers""I'm perhaps the least typical Ledian user you'll ever get to see in the whole OU" - AABM.
· Say, Orange looks better than gray, doesn't it?
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:41 am |
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Zenrot
Psychic Trainer
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:02 am Posts: 78
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how many EV's should go into which stat? (for dusknoir)
P.S. I HATE skarmbliss, i will never use them, ever. And cresselia is a legendary, so i wont use it either.
_________________ I want to be The very best Like no one ever was
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:46 am |
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KOL40
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:41 pm Posts: 728 Location: Atlanta, on a never ending quest to find wifi opponents...
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The Obsidian Wolf wrote: Dusknoir@Lefties
Impish Nature
Pain Split
Ice Punch
Will o Wisp
Shadow Sneak
THAT'S MY NOIR, YOU FREAKIN THEIF!!!
On topic:
Dusknoir
Regice (hurt this gen by SR)
Blissey
Skarmory
Cresselia
Spiritomb
Most of these will want to hold lefties. Pain split is essential on both Dusknoir and Spiritomb.
I personally believe SkarmBliss/Cress is an uber combination, shouldn't be allowed in OU, and therfore i don't run it and never will.
_________________Think you can handle the Shady Park Gym?1461*4103*1427 <center><img src="images/trainercards/kol40.png"></center>
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:26 pm |
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magikoopa
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i would change the other dusknoirs up a bit shadow sneak is not needed if you can have a trick room team (goes well with a team of tanks) get rid of shadow sneak and put in toxic the rest of the set is fine just have the bronzong on hand to trick oom or any other slow psys (brain block cnat think of any)
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:17 pm |
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Seablade
Bug Catcher
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:05 pm Posts: 5
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I'm still pretty new to all this but...
The only wall type I have bred is a nosepass/probopass partly because it ammuses me, but I was working on level 30 teams and it had good defense at that level break compared to some others.
It does have type issues being anihalated by EQ and Fighting moves which are both common. But I found if I keep it for the last pokemon on the team, and focus on knocking down anything it is weak to ahead of time, it can come out and solidly safely finish the game for me.
Super boring when you get two walls out to finish a game though... I was doing battle revolution where it gives you pokemon and the match ended with two Fortress packing double team/Sand trap?/Toxic/Rest. They were utterly incapeable of kiling one another so I just resigned.
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:25 pm |
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jamashawalker
Dragon Tamer
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:57 am Posts: 160
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just to run somethin different than Skambliss/Cress....you could run a rhyperior Snorlax Combo....Rhyperior may have a 2 4X weaknesses, but that's why you send in snorlax for a special wall...Rhyperior does good as physical wall and a very strong attacker as well as Snorlax...a fighting move cant really take away that make HP away from Rhyperior and add a counter on him...
Rhyperior@Leftovers
Impish
252 HP, 252 Attack 6 Defense (i'm too sure about those EVs, so correct me if i'm wrong)
Counter
Stone Edge/Rock Slide
EQ
Megahorn
Snorlax@Leftovers
Impish/Careful
252 HP 129 attack 129 Defense/Special Defense
Rest
Curse
Brick Break/Return/Body Slam
Crunch
This works pretty well considering the fact that rhyperior can take many hits from it's weaknesses..It's not as strong as the skarmbliss strategy, but it's something completely different..and most ppl want to band those two in battle...so it's just something else to throw in there...
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:55 pm |
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Trefly
Bug Catcher
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:40 pm Posts: 22 Location: Hiding under the bed. Yours.
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Hmmm one of my secret weapons is an Umbreon (impish or bold works) with curse and payback. If you use curse just a few times your defense gets pretty crazy, and since you're quite slow at that point punishment will go second pretty much all the time, and with your attack hiked up you can be offensive as well as defensive. Give her leftovers, moonlight, and 252 def 252 spec def and 6 hp (and probably toxic.) Quite a potent weapon.
_________________ In the end they stop screaming.
PM me for a battle, no ubers, evasion, or OHKO. Anything else is quite peachy, FC = 4124 1502 2791, name = Tre.
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:48 pm |
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KOL40
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:41 pm Posts: 728 Location: Atlanta, on a never ending quest to find wifi opponents...
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magikoopa wrote: i would change the other dusknoirs up a bit shadow sneak is not needed if you can have a trick room team (goes well with a team of tanks) get rid of shadow sneak and put in toxic the rest of the set is fine just have the bronzong on hand to trick oom or any other slow psys (brain block cnat think of any)
You want it to have toxic AND WOW?
I would rather run Rhyperior and Bliss than snorelax.
_________________Think you can handle the Shady Park Gym?1461*4103*1427 <center><img src="images/trainercards/kol40.png"></center>
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:48 pm |
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soulmaster
Ace Trainer
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:15 pm Posts: 287 Location: New Zealand
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Trefly wrote: Hmmm one of my secret weapons is an Umbreon (impish or bold works) with curse and payback. If you use curse just a few times your defense gets pretty crazy, and since you're quite slow at that point punishment will go second pretty much all the time, and with your attack hiked up you can be offensive as well as defensive. Give her leftovers, moonlight, and 252 def 252 spec def and 6 hp (and probably toxic.) Quite a potent weapon.
Mine has Wish instead of Moonlight, which is more handy IMO.
_________________Man...Swampert20 is talented... ^^ Look at that!
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Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:38 pm |
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Glowstick
Bug Catcher
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:21 pm Posts: 8 Location: New Hampshire
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Just incase everyone hasn't figured it out yet,
UMBREON IS BAD.
Don't get me wrong, I love him,
and he was a STICK in advance,
but with Electivire running around with Cross CHop,
Herasross with the world,
INfernape,
Liucario,
and several others,
he get's raped.
That's why he's in BL,
almost UU.
:[
374 pales to the 405 of Dusknoir and the 430-ish of Skarmory.
_________________Anytime, Anywhere. :]]] Glowstick 176213458129 Electivire, Gyrados, Dusknoir, Skarmory, Suicune, & Dragonite baby.
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Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:28 am |
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soulmaster
Ace Trainer
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:15 pm Posts: 287 Location: New Zealand
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Ah, but you wouldn't be stupid enough to send him out against them would you?
The trick is, to send him out at a Special Sweeper, like say, Alakazam. Then all it can do is attack pitifully, with T-bolt, and you can curse away. If it starts to CM then just whack it with a Payback. Keep wishing away the damage, and add confuse ray/toxic to annoy. When you have 5/6 curses up, then just payback everything to death. Trust me it works, I sent mine out against a Dragonite once, and it was obliterated, even when it DDed as if it's life depended on it. Even if they switch to, Lucario, that's mainly a Special Sweeper anyway, which cant really do much to Umbreon, even if it used Close Combat it wouldn't OHKO, at most it would 2HKO after a couple of curses on a decent Umbreon. Then wish keeps up the health.
It's a VERY handy tool in battle, believe me. You just need to watch out for Hazers, or things with nasty plot/swords dance.
_________________Man...Swampert20 is talented... ^^ Look at that!
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Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:25 am |
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sanjay120
Dragon Tamer
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:43 pm Posts: 117
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Umbreon is a decent BL wall. Probopass is hard to use and I wouldn't recommend it for a new player, but if you can make it work then use it.
Dusknoir ALWAYSALWAYSALWAYS needs max HP. It walls most effectively with it. You won't be surviving much to Pain Split without it. Skarmory needs max HP as well, and max or near max Def. Blissey needs max Def, a lot of HP, and some SAttk. No SDef is needed, really. Forretress is EV'd like Skarm; it has some advantages in being a spinner and a few more resists in exchange for a 4x fire weak and EQ neutrality. It also gets Explosion, useful for finishing off that damn Blissey.
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Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:28 pm |
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luxray strike
Psychic Trainer
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:10 pm Posts: 70 Location: Australia
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Since when has Umbers been BL??? If used correctly it is almost invincible for 2 reasons:
1) as previously mentioned before it has excellent defences and can easily be used as duel wall (both physical and special).
2) The large majority of movesets enabling it to take a hit.
For example take my umbreon, that packs sunny day/moonlight combo with confuse ray and toxic to annoy and cripple teams, as compared to the curse/payback umbreon previously mentioned. These are just 2 different varients of his movesets and both work. IMO if you are looking for a competitive tank use umbers. It may not be as good as skarm/bliss but if you run it with you dusknoir you can avoid you fighting/dark/ghost weakness all wall opponents for a decent amount of time.
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FC: 2320 4109 0925
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:05 pm |
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jamashawalker
Dragon Tamer
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:57 am Posts: 160
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luxray strike wrote: Since when has Umbers been BL??? If used correctly it is almost invincible for 2 reasons:
1) as previously mentioned before it has excellent defences and can easily be used as duel wall (both physical and special).
2) The large majority of movesets enabling it to take a hit.
For example take my umbreon, that packs sunny day/moonlight combo with confuse ray and toxic to annoy and cripple teams, as compared to the curse/payback umbreon previously mentioned. These are just 2 different varients of his movesets and both work. IMO if you are looking for a competitive tank use umbers. It may not be as good as skarm/bliss but if you run it with you dusknoir you can avoid you fighting/dark/ghost weakness all wall opponents for a decent amount of time.
lol honestly i asked the same question....here's what they said to me...
umbreon is good, but he is now overpowered by ppl in the next gen...IE curslax, brozong, ninjask...and now that they have great fighting moves it's becoming easy to take down umbreon with a close combat, focus blast, aura sphere and ppl are getting really big into the psuedohaze and roar/whirlwind...and ppl are packing yanmega
basically what they are saying is that competative battles are becoming alot more competative that umbreon cant keep up with the OUs and now their are much better walls and tanks...i still believe that umbreon is an OU however...but idk who OFFICIALLY says who's BL and OU and what not...but i defintely also believe that umbreon should be OU
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:36 pm |
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KOL40
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:41 pm Posts: 728 Location: Atlanta, on a never ending quest to find wifi opponents...
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According to Smogon, Umbreon is BL this gen. I agree, the reasons the poster above me stated are true. STAB Life orb CC from 'nape lol's at umbreon.
_________________Think you can handle the Shady Park Gym?1461*4103*1427 <center><img src="images/trainercards/kol40.png"></center>
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:17 pm |
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sanjay120
Dragon Tamer
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:43 pm Posts: 117
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KOL40 wrote: According to Smogon, Umbreon is BL this gen. I agree, the reasons the poster above me stated are true. STAB Life orb CC from 'nape lol's at umbreon.
Not if Umby Charms it on the switchin. CBHera has minor trouble switching into Charm, LO Infernape is going to fare worse.
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:02 pm |
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KOL40
Pokemon Ranger
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:41 pm Posts: 728 Location: Atlanta, on a never ending quest to find wifi opponents...
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I've never even played against an umbreon with charm...
_________________Think you can handle the Shady Park Gym?1461*4103*1427 <center><img src="images/trainercards/kol40.png"></center>
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:05 pm |
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Cynthia
Pokemon Trainer
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:04 am Posts: 32 Location: Celestic Town (visiting grandma)
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...SHUCKLE!
_________________ Pokémon Pearl Friend Code: 1934 0171 9635 My name is a little messed up:
The streched triangle 2 hearts the face that looks like it's in pain a diamond a club and a musical note
if you don't understand this, look at my avitar thingy.
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:51 am |
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koipen
Ace Trainer
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:01 am Posts: 274
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Cresselia is the best Mixed wall. With Levitate and those defensive stats, She will stand out greatly in OU. Special side, Blissey is tremendously good. Physical you could run Hippowdon or Bronzong. Bronzong also works as mixed, but Cress is better. If we are talking Ubers, there's three main choices. Giratina. with those mammoth Defnsive stats, he will be hard to take down, expecially with WoW. And he can actually damage. Lugia is damn sturdy with Roost Reflect Toxic and Whirlwind. I've beaten in Adv many Uber teams only by Toxistalling. And then there is Blis. Blis is still the best Special wall in Ubers. If we talk BL, Uxie and Mesprit are the choices. Mesprit is sturdy and he has good attacking stats too, while Uxie has big defense stats but weaker on Attacking. In UU, Hypno, Grumpig, Muk and Guagsire works. They are working because theyr stats and typings. I've not taken Agron or Golem, as both die to EQ. Gligar is also good.
Hope this helped!
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:26 pm |
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