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 Anti-Substitute 
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Psychic Trainer
Psychic Trainer

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:10 pm
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Is their any need in a team for what I thought of as a breaker: A poke that knows a multiturn attack, like triple kick on hitmontop for example, just to break substitutes and get continuous damage. It would mess up things like a ninjask who is extremely fragile and could be incorperated with other roles as well eg. Hitmontop with rapid spin as well so it would be a spinner/breaker

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Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:19 pm
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Dragon Tamer
Dragon Tamer

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:13 am
Posts: 115
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try cloyster...

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Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:54 pm
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Fails at life
Fails at life

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:23 pm
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{hitmontop} @ Life Orb
Adamant | Technician
EVs : 252 atk, 252 spd, 4 def

Triple Kick
Fake Out
???
???

Fake Out on first turn to flinch and damage before they use substitute, then when they do Pawn them with Triple Kick. Add Triple kick to Technician and life orb, and (Counting the two attacks that hit attacks) would be : (20+12.5=32.5) 32.5*2= Base Power of 65 hitting the foe. Adamant boost gets that to a 75, and 252 atk EVs mean 138, plus his attack stat (with max IVs) is 442, minus the opponent's defense stat, which means it's gonna do atleast 100 damage. Beat that.

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Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:06 pm
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Ace Trainer
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Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:41 am
Posts: 338
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Ghett0 wrote:
{hitmontop} @ Life Orb
Adamant | Technician
EVs : 252 atk, 252 spd, 4 def

Triple Kick
Fake Out
???
???

Fake Out on first turn to flinch and damage before they use substitute, then when they do Pawn them with Triple Kick. Add Triple kick to Technician and life orb, and (Counting the two attacks that hit attacks) would be : (20+12.5=32.5) 32.5*2= Base Power of 65 hitting the foe. Adamant boost gets that to a 75, and 252 atk EVs mean 138, plus his attack stat (with max IVs) is 442, minus the opponent's defense stat, which means it's gonna do atleast 100 damage. Beat that.


Fake out just prolongs the inedidable (sorry, I love misspelling that in such a manner). So it just does a bit of damage, and they can subsitute the next turn, and of course, wastes an ever-so valuable attack slot. Also, you do know that triple kick is quadruple ineffective against Ninjasks, so it won't do near sub-par damage for higher tiers. And sorry for you meddling rater, and your stupid moveset too, Ninjasks are the most common baton passer/substituers. I don't really plan on "beating that" (as I bolded in your above, yet below in intelligence, statement), I just plan on proving it so wrong, it could easily be beat by someone who really cares for wasting their time on doing so.

FOR YOU PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO READ THAT: Ghett0 is still a half witted dunce, and triple kick isn't your best choice, maybe even fury attack or something.

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Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:23 pm
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Bug Catcher
Bug Catcher

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:19 pm
Posts: 19
Location: Wilmington, DE
Post 
Ignore Ghetto.

The best sub breakers (attacking, not roar or something) are:

Armaldo with Rock Blast (uncommon now, but good for subs)

Hitmontop with:

Technician
Wide Lens (to ensure kicks hitting), Lum Berry, but Hitmontop can take some hits, so not Life Orb

Triple Kick
Aerial Ace
Quick Attack (deals with subreversers and overconfident ninjask that sub down to 1% health)
Bulk Up (with it's awesome Sp. Def., it should make up for not having life orb)

Other than that, roar is probably good. If a particular subber gives you trouble, find a faster pokemon to counter it.

P.S.- I have had great success with a lead-off Raikou-

Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Roar
Substitute

Beats the crap out of ninjask, surprises Salamence, and wins 1-on-1 against a Jolteon without Thunder Wave. I never leave home without it.

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Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:37 pm
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Psychic Trainer
Psychic Trainer

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:10 pm
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Location: Australia
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Although he does have a point even though i don't think he ment to. Using fake out may do little damage but for all the poke's who are EV trained to have their HP divisible by 4 this means only 3 not 4 subs and stops the activation of a stat-boosting berry, which is the sort of thing I am trying to achieve.

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Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:38 pm
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Ace Trainer
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:59 pm
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Why hasn't anyone mentioned ambipom for the non roar stuff?

I mean his fake out is stab, technitian, life orb, it actually hurts pretty bad. (It's funniest when you can then u-turn to a pokemon that counters the pokemon they have out, but that's a whole other subject)

He can also double hit right through a sub during turn two, or taunt to stop future subs and any baton pass for a while.

But yeah as someone said, Cloyster can break through ninjask subs in particular very well. 5 hits of stab super effective damage.

Triple kick isn't a very good move, more over I'm fairly sure that ninjask is resistant to it.


Really though if ninjask is the subber causing problems you should be countering with skarmory.


Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:58 pm
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Psychic Trainer
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:10 pm
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I was just using both hitmontop and ninjask as an example, i should have said in general, but i hear what your saying. Ambipom sounds sweet, but i don't get the U-Turn thing.

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Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:38 pm
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Ace Trainer
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:59 pm
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luxray strike wrote:
I was just using both hitmontop and ninjask as an example, i should have said in general, but i hear what your saying. Ambipom sounds sweet, but i don't get the U-Turn thing.


Oh the u turn thing, well as we all know uturn is an auto switch out after it's used.

I saw an ambipom with life orb, technitian, fake out, u-turn, something, something.

The general strategy was, fake out for Good damage, they flinch, they use special/physcal attack next turn.

You uturn to special/physical sponge/counter.

If it had pursuit too, which also gets the technitian boost, then you can even get them if you predict they try and switch to a ghost.

But yeah, double hit should smash the crap out of non resistant subs, and triple kick Would work on BOAH/some other well known resistant to normal subbers, but that's one hell of a risk.


Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:30 am
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