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 Generation IV Tier List - last update February 17th, 2011 
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FaceLess wrote:
MissingNo_Is_My_Friend wrote:
sanjay120 wrote:
If Wobby encores your stat-upping, they get a free switch in to a counter. Or something else that can set up in return.


And that leaves you free to switch as well...
Yeah, but you have to switch second, which means he could have a boah set up a sub while you're busy switching out.


I don't think that would happen too often if the guy already used up a slot for Wobbufett.


Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:00 pm
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MissingNo_Is_My_Friend wrote:
I don't think that would happen too often if the guy already used up a slot for Wobbufett.


What are you talking about?


Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:14 am
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Why is Castform in NU, when Linoone is in BL and Mightyena is in UU, when they have the same total base stats? {castform} > ( {linoone} + {mightyena} ) I <3 math. :lol:


Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:32 pm
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I'm gonna have to say with all the new physical sweeper power in the game as well as new moves like power whip and physical thunder punch that milotic just ain't what it used to be.

I'm never seen one do well since the new generation. I mean they can't switch in as safetly anymore. I mean I knock them out with a dragonite. They think they can switch in and ice beam, but they just get smashed. Not even by thunder punch.

Since my last list of opinions I've come to the conclusion that Donphan is an awesome pokemon, his stats are just great and his move set is solidly useful.

In regards to the castform question, linoone is fast and therefore can do Something, and I assume mightyena has a better more set or something.


Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:13 pm
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But, Castform has Forecast and Weather Ball... :cry: .


Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:28 pm
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Quote:
Alakazam
Dugtrio
Gallade
Houndoom
Jolteon
Machamp
Milotic
Rampardos
Shaymin
Spiritomb
Suicune
Swampert
Torterra


NONE of these deserve to be on the ranks of OU. Some of them would have been last gen., but as we know times have changed and so has the metagame pecking order.

Alakazam is not OU because it lost its glitter when the elemental punches on it became useless, and numerous new evolutions rushed in to take its place. There are just far better things now. Same goes for Dugtrio, there are just far better things in the metagame now.

Gallade is too slow to be of any value unless equipped with a Choice Scarf, and relying on Scarf does not an OU contender make.

Houndoom and Jolteon are not nearly good enough. Jolteon really hasn't improved or gotten worse since the start of 4th gen., BUT again, more things have gotten better, and more things have rushed in to steal its spot. Houndoom's special movepool leaves a lot to be desired and is too fragile and a bit too slow to manage a Nasty Plot setup.

Machamp, as much as I like it, is simply not used often enough to be "over used." You can't put something in a tier with a metagame when they have no part in said metagame.

Milotic, Swampert, and Suicune were all tough bulky waters in 3rd gen., but once again, other things have become better. I feel Swampert has maintained its status the best, but all of them deserve to be knocked down to BL.

Rampardos? NO. Rampardos is too fragile to take a hit, and too slow to attempt to get in a hit before dying a miserable death. Again, it's not even used often enough to be considered over used.

You can't call Shaymin OU in a time and setting when you can't even *legally* have a Shaymin. Almost every battler will have a clause about hacks, and that includes the chia pet too. Once Shay's time comes, I could see it being OU, but until then, it doesn't belong *anywhere.*

Spiritomb is meant to be a tank, as we can see by its stats, but its HP is below satisfactory and its options for tanky moves is less than wide. Another that belongs in BL.

Lastly, Torterra is *NOT* OU! This is starting to remind me of Marriland's ugly tier list, where they disclaim that it's not based on the actual metagame, but rather the ones with the highest stats. Torterra might have the stats to cut it on Marriland's tier list, but let's face it--it's 4x weak to WEAVILE, questionably one of the most OU pokemon in the metagame. It can't really do much of anything, not even have a good moveset with 4 good attacking moves.


Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:33 pm
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Taser wrote:
Gallade is too slow to be of any value unless equipped with a Choice Scarf, and relying on Scarf does not an OU contender make.


Dude, you don't Scarf Gallade. You Scarf Medicham. Gallade is attacking and status support.


Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:48 am
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^Dude, I am not a dude, and dude, Gallade won't get an attack or status support in if it's too slow, now, will it?


Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:52 am
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Taser wrote:
^Dude, I am not a dude, and dude, Gallade won't get an attack or status support in if it's too slow, now, will it?


Ok, so I suppose we should scarf Cressy and Bliss too. :/

Gallade is great defensively, in case you haven't noticed.


Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:25 am
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sanjay120 wrote:
Taser wrote:
^Dude, I am not a dude, and dude, Gallade won't get an attack or status support in if it's too slow, now, will it?


Ok, so I suppose we should scarf Cressy and Bliss too. :/

Gallade is great defensively, in case you haven't noticed.


can u back up ur point for once
sure gallade has nice spDef (base 115 i think) but its defense stinks
sure this goes for snorlax too, but snorlax can curse up its def and its atk as well, and it has mountains of HP
can gallade curse? does gallade have mountains of HP? can gallade improve its horrid defense? (sure theres WoW/refelect, but the average sweeper can still 2hko it)
if u look at gallade's highest stat, its attack, u can think of better ways to use gallade=>as a sweeper and most pair scarf to make up for its horrid spd


Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:53 pm
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c-scarf on gallade? no,c-scarf on medicham= good

gallade is mainly meant to be a wall killer with it's good defences,good attack and movepool,regardless what you may say about his def stat w.o.w helps him in that spot.

i mean w.o.w good sp.def and atleast 336 hp gives him great leftover recovery allowing him to take small hits from other tanks,and hit them back harder with his massive att on top of that support moves when properly timed can screw you're opponent over.

most walls are weak to gallades stab moves,and the ones that aren't really dont like sleep/paralyz/burn,see this psy/fighter isnt meant to sweep medicham is,this guy is meant to destroy you're opponents resources by hurting his defences and maybe cripling his offence if you're good at predicting,dont underestimate gallade in ou it's one hell of a pokemon.

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Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:13 pm
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umm no. on a tank/sponge, u need to depend on sth other than lefties
weezing/dusknoir/spiritomb has pain split
blissey has softboiled
skarm has roost
snorlax has stability to rest
heck, umbreon can have moonlight
what does gallade have? at most, rest, which isnt gonna cut it. this gives ur opponent a free switch to and a chance to 1hko gallade. now u have two choices:
switch out and have a sleeping poke on ur team
die.
also, WoW/Reflect only makes gallade def RESPECTABLE, vs. weezing/dusknoir/spiritomb using WoW to just humiliate and put down physical sweepers. skarm already has natural, and very high, defense, so it doesnt need a trash filler like reflect to make it physical sponge. bliss is one of, if not the best, special sponges, with mammoth HP and very good spDef (higher than gallade, if i can add). snorlax curses, which makes it a good sweeper late game too.
and tanks are supposed to hit hard, so gallade taking 'small hits from other tanks' is nothing to brag about. what is true is that gallade can 'hit them back harder with his massive att.' BINGO-make it a sweeper and u can slap on scarf to fit the role better.
what walls are weak against brick break/close comabat and psycho cut? sure it learns night slash to (maybe) kill of dusknoir, and (maybe) psycho cut can kill weezing. in order for this to work, u will need an adamant nature (which doesnt equate to a tank, does it) and EV trained in atk (again, is this gallade looking like a tank?) now i agree medicham w/ shoice scarf is killer, but y not gallade too? its like complaining about a heracross w/scarf (the two can run similar movesets too)
ur last paragraph is missing some periods/commas so i dun understand the rest of it =l but i am not underestimating gallade as OU (unless u wanna make it a tank >.>)


Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:48 pm
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Gallade has Wish, mmmk? I'm not saying Scarflade will never work, I'm saying why would you use it when Medicham is so much better? Gallade can take hits and dish them out, and has amazing support options, and you are severely limiting it by Scarfing it. You want a Scarfed fighter, stick to Medicham. Gallade is attacking and support.


Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:17 am
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ok, medicham is a better scarfed fighter.
ok, umbreon is a better wish-passer.
but what can you do with a gallade w/ wish? ok, ur opponent nearly 1hko gallade, then gallade wishes. now what? switch? ok, fine, but wouldnt umbreon fit better for that role? umby can BP mean look as well, which can help in bunches.
then how abt if u WoW them first? still wont work with gallade's below avg speed. it will only delay the inevitable. ur opponent will almost 1hko u the first turn, b4 u WoW due to gallade's speed. then, if ur super lucky, ur opponent wun kill (very rare if i might add) and u wish and switch out. two things wrong about this:
ur opponent has enough brains to switch out his/her burned poke, so ur opp. gets a free switch as well. thats y umby's BPed mean look is useful.
ur gallade is nearly dead if ur lucky, and cannot survive another attack later on in the match.
and in general, by scarfing/specing/banding a poke, u are severely limited its choices, down to one attack if i can add, hence CHOICE band/specs/scarf


Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:46 am
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No, Choicers aren't limited since they hit hard with their attacks. They damage. A Scarf Gallade is limited solely to attacking, though, which is not what it does best.

And I mentioned Wish since someone mentioned it has no other recovery. Also, maybe you could use it when you're out against something that won't kill you? Maybe you can WoW their physical sweeper on the switch? And making them switch out if they're WoWed is a very good thing. They're stuck with a crippled poke for the match, unless they have a cleric, and about half the teams I see don't.


Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:57 pm
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*Is confused*. I've seen on other sites recently that a new tier - the Modrately Used MU - has been introduced in between BL and UU..... does this tier make an acceptable change to the current 5-tier system or is it a load of tosh that I've found randomly out of nowhere?

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Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:56 am
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The most frequent tiers are still Uber, OU and UU. A lot of sites have Borderline and/or Neverused and a few others choose to divide the Pokemon into even more tiers. I subscribe to the belief that Uber, OU, BL, UU and NU are just fine for the current generation. "Moderately Used" sounds like something somebody just made up; if UU is "Underused" and OU is "overused," shouldn't Borderline already fill the purpose of a "moderately used" tier?

Quote:
Alakazam is not OU because it lost its glitter when the elemental punches on it became useless, and numerous new evolutions rushed in to take its place. There are just far better things now. Same goes for Dugtrio, there are just far better things in the metagame now.

Few things still revenge kill better than Dugtrio. Short of Shed Shell Skarmory, who was already immune to Arena Trap, nothing much has changed in DP as far as being unable to escape Dugtrio. And people are really too dramatic about Alakazam losing the elemental punches; it got Shadow Ball, Focus Blast and Grass Knot, which definitely make up for it. It's Borderline, but it's still good.

Quote:
Milotic, Swampert, and Suicune were all tough bulky waters in 3rd gen., but once again, other things have become better. I feel Swampert has maintained its status the best, but all of them deserve to be knocked down to BL.

I don't see how anything has changed for Swampert. It's still the premiere Water/Ground, it can still Curse, and it still has the stats to be a sponge/mixed attacker. Suicune is still one of the better Special walls after Blissey. I don't really care about Milotic's status anyway because I hate that thing.

Quote:
You can't call Shaymin OU in a time and setting when you can't even *legally* have a Shaymin. Almost every battler will have a clause about hacks, and that includes the chia pet too. Once Shay's time comes, I could see it being OU, but until then, it doesn't belong *anywhere.*

Wi-Fi isn't the only place to battle in the DP metagame. A lot of testing takes place on shoddybattle and other DP battle simulations. And Shaymin would never be considered OU with Celebi, who outclasses Shaymin in almost every way, around.

Also, Machamp being OU is the same deal. You probably just haven't found many people on Wi-Fi with one, but No Guard really improved Machamp when it was BL in Advanced.


Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:18 am
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I think Frost raises a few good points even though her avatar bothers me a little since it's technically a man. But that's capcom and this is something totally different

The one thing I disagree over is Swampert, he used to be incredibly good for a number of reasons and now he has physical water attacks, but there's one pretty big difference between now and then that might impact him.

Energy Ball and grass knot. They are standard on a lot of OU pokemon and now with Tangela's evo there's a bit more on the OU Grass scene. Being 4x weak to grass used to be no issue, pokemon would need hidden power grass to fight him most of the time.

But he's still pretty heavy so he takes good damage from both energy ball and grass knot.


Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:18 pm
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i dont see why umbreon is a BL...it has great stats, a good BPer and annoyer...it's a great tank and special wall to switch in to...a very wide movepool...alot like a curselax but at least it can pass it's stats onto others(curselax is much better though), wish also helps others as well...so i'm curious why is he conisdered a BL?


Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:14 am
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Frost wrote:
I don't really care about Milotic's status anyway because I hate that thing.


Here, here! ^^

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jamashawalker wrote:
i dont see why umbreon is a BL... it has great stats

No, it really doesn't. It has no attacking power whatsoever without stat boosters, it isn't fast, and things hit so hard in DP that Umbreon's once-good defensive stats aren't really enough to save him from getting killed in within a couple of rounds.

Quote:
a good BPer and annoyer

Annoyers are not taken seriously in competitive battling under most circumstances. Baton Passing Mean Look is still one of Umbreon's few uses.

Quote:
...it's a great tank and special wall...

Again, it's not. Maybe it was back in GSC. But in DP, Umbreon can get pummeled into submission with Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, Dynamicpunch from Machamp, etc., a lot quicker than it could before.

Quote:
a very wide movepool...

First of all, every single Eevee has a very NARROW movepool. And second of all, Umbreon doesn't have the stats to take advantage of attacking moves unless it Curses.

Quote:
alot like a curselax but at least it can pass it's stats onto others(curselax is much better though), wish also helps others as well...so i'm curious why is he conisdered a BL?

You answered your own question anyway: "Curselax is better." The better Pokemon are OU. The Pokemon who still have purposes but are outclassed by better Pokemon are Borderline or lower.


Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:55 am
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true....lol that clears it up...in the advance generation he was bomb on my team...but that makes sense...he's not as good now in DP...lol thanks, i was just curious about that


Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:36 pm
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ship_in_a_bottle wrote:
Here's the list:

OU

Aerodactyl
Alakazam
Ambipom<-
Azelf
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
Celebi<-
Cresselia
Donphan
Dragonite
Dugtrio
Dusknoir
Electivire
Gallade<-
Garchomp
Gengar
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran<-
Heracross
Hippowdon
Houndoom<-
Infernape
Jirachi
Jolteon
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Medicham
Mesprit
Metagross
Milotic
Porygon-Z
Raikou
Rampardos
Rhyperior
Salamence
Shaymin
Skarmory
Slaking
Slowbro
Snorlax
Spiritomb
Staraptor<-
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert
Tangrowth
Togekiss
Torterra<-
Tyranitar
Weavile
Weezing
Yanmega
Zapdos<-



Alright, time to make my points.

First off, Ambipom. I know he's fast and has some decent attacks (Fake Out, Double Hit STAB Technician...) but his base stats are very low for OU. He's basically an annoyer that people use at the beginning of battles to catch the enemy off guard for a quick attack or two and then running away. Good, but belongs in BL.

Celebi? You have to be kidding. Great stats (tying Mew, an uber) but terrible, TERRIBLE weaknesses. Celebi's also basically limited to Baton Passing because of it's only decent attacking movepool. It can also use leech seed, but that's about it. I consider it another high-rating BL.

Gallade, as has been pointed out, is not worth of OU. Even though I already said it was a great choice scarfer (which it isn't) I've come to realize that Medicham is indeed better. Gallade just doesn't have the stats.

Let's face it, the one reason that you don't see most people running around with Heatran is that he's 4x weak to easily the most used physical attack in the game, Earthquake. He has good stats and typing otherwise, but not enough to fit in OU.

Houndoom lacks the stats, speed, and movepool of an OU. He's a good BL, but not good enough. His Dark only adds on a Fighting weakness along with a couple of resistances, which means good typing. Decent, but not good enough.

Staraptor's stats are only so-so, with only a decent ability. His movepool isn't great, and his defenses are awful. Not OU at all, with those downsides.

Torterra has 4x weakness to Ice and isn't fast enough to KO it's opponent before it gets hit or durable enough to live through Ice Beam usually. If it's Sp Def was higher, than yes, but for now we should shove it to BL.

Zapdos is only great if you can get Baton Pass onto it. Besides that... he has great defensive typing and decent defensive stats. He JUST NEEDS BATON PASS (Which, FYI, you must get in XD). I like Zapdos, but with such a necessity on one move I disagree with him being OU at all.


And, for all those who did not notice: BL AND OU MEAN THE SAME THING. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO IS THAT OU IS MORE OVERUSED AND A BIT MORE POWERFUL. THAT IS ALL.

What this essentially means is that it isn't the end of the world if your Umbreon or Ambipom ends up in BL, it just means that they are a tiny bit underclassed.

[size=0]& Faceless, Frost is a guy...[/size]

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Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:16 pm
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Heatran is OU for sure. The 4x weak is the only thing keeping it out of Ubers. It works great with Scarf/Specs/Life Orb and is bulkier than you think.

EDIT: Why is it everywhere I go I see Chatot is NU? People need to think more. Name one NU counter.

And wtf is Seadra doing on the list?


Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:21 am
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Quote:
Aerodactyl
Alakazam
Ambipom BL
Azelf
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
Celebi
Cresselia
Donphan
Dragonite
Dugtrio
Dusknoir
Electivire
Gallade BL?
Garchomp
Gengar
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran
Heracross
Hippowdon
Houndoom
Infernape
Jirachi
Jolteon
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Medicham BL?
Mesprit
Metagross
Milotic BL?
Porygon-Z
Raikou
Rampardos I don't think it's OU or BL
Rhyperior
Salamence
Shaymin
Skarmory
Slaking
Slowbro
Snorlax
Spiritomb BL
Staraptor
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert
Tangrowth
Togekiss
Torterra
Tyranitar
Weavile
Weezing
Yanmega BL?
Zapdos

----------------------------------------------

Absol
Arcanine
Armaldo
Articuno
Blaziken
Chansey
Charizard
Claydol
Cloyster
Cradily
Crobat
Dodrio
Drapion
Dusclops
Empoleon
Entei
Espeon
Exeggutor
Feraligatr
Floatzel
Flygon
Forretress OU
Frosslass
Gardevoir
Glaceon
Hariyama
Haunter
Honchkrow
Jumpluff
Jynx
Kadabra
Kangaskhan
Kingdra
Lapras
Leafeon
Lickilicky
Linoone
Ludicolo
Luxray
Magmortar
Magneton
Marowak (with Thick Club)
Miltank
Mismagius
Moltres
Nidoking
Ninetales
Ninjask
Pikachu (with Light Ball)
Pinsir
Poliwrath
Porygon2
Probopass
Raichu
Regice OU?
Regigigas Same as Rampardos
Regirock
Registeel
Relicanth
Rhydon
Roserade
Sceptile
Scizor
Sharpedo
Slowking
Steelix
Swellow
Tauros
Tentacruel
Toxicroak
Typhlosion
Umbreon
Ursaring
Uxie
Vaporeon
Venusaur
Wynaut
Zangoose


The ones without a ? are for sure, and the ones with a ? are debatable. I only did BL and OU because I have no experience with the other tiers... This is just my opinion so I'm not forcing anyone to listen to me.

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