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 Hidden Power question 
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I'm pretty new to competitive battling and I've came up with a new team I think will do well, but I have a few questions. I've gotten my movesets from Smogon and I think they're effective and diverse but it requires two of my pokes to learn hidden power, a move I've never worked with. What I'm wondering is will hidden power be the moves Smogon is telling me they will be? I've never worked with IV's/DV's so I don't really know, I have however been working with EV's since I'd gotten Diamond. However the EV's given to me don't include the final two, will not calculating those in effect hidden power? Also neither of the pokemon are level 100 yet so I can't check their DV's because if they wouldn't be the hidden power type I'd need I wouldn't want it to be a waste of time. If their hidden power wouldn't turn out to be the types indicated below can someone offer me alternative moves? Thanks in advance, sorry for such a loaded question.

{metagross} Quiet
EV's: 252HP/4ATK/252SpA
Hidden Power - Fire

{infernape} Naive
EV’s: 24ATK/252SpA/232SPE
Hidden Power - Ice


Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:08 pm
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Getting the HP type you want is by far one of the hardest things to accomplish in the Game because you need to Breed the EXACT IVs before you get the right type. 1 IV difference can change the type of HP completely. Chances of your Metagross and Infernape having the right IVs for the HP type you want is probably less than 1 in 1000. So I guess you probably have to adjust your Movesets to patch that hole up. There are no alternative Fire Attacks for Metagross, or Ice Attacks for Infernape.

For us to decide on the new moves, you would have to post up your current movesets for us to see. :)


Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:04 am
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I figured it was gunna be a challenge since I was totaly confused by the guide, and I normally understand things pretty quickly. Thanks for the help though, I guess I'll just play around with movesets a bit more until I find something else I like. Any suggestions? I'll post what the suggested moveset was when I get home.


Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:25 pm
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the type of a Pokemon hidden power is determined by the parity of the IVs (even-ness or odd-ness). eg if all IVs are odd then the hidden power is dark type, if they're all even then it will be fighting. you could probably find a guide somewhere that will give you all combinations.

the strength is a little bit trickier. to be a maximum power (ie 70) each stat must be one of the following numbers - 31,30,27,26,23,22,19,18,15,14,11,10,7,6,3,2. in mathematical terms all IVs need to be congruent to 2 or 3, modulo 4 (ie leave a remainder of 2 or 3 when you divide by 4). of course, if a given stat must be even (to get the correct type) then of course it must be one of the even numbers in that list. the same goes for odd.

since it is possible to manipulate the IVs through breeding, and you can sometimes pass on three IVs from parents, it is possible to try and breed for a good hidden power. the easiest way is to try and get the right sp atk, sp def, spd by passing them from parents, and hoping the other three stats turn out ok. it also turns out that these three stats affect the strength of hidden power the most. if your last three stats are numbers in the list above, then your hidden power type will be at least 65.

for example, my one and only hidden power project was a timid hp ice sceptile. you can get hp ice with the following IVs - x/x/x/31/31/31, where x/x/x is either e/e/e, o/e/e. or e/o/e. i spent a while breeding to get a male and (timid) female both with x/x/x/31/31/31 (and random x/x/x). (i did this by first breeding to get one of the 31's, then two, then three.) and then i bred them together. one in 16 babies will have x/x/x/31/31/31, and then eventually one of them will hopefully have the right combination of stats in the x/x/x. i ended up with 14/26/22/31/31/31. as you can see, all the numbers are in the list, so it finished up with hidden power ice with power 70 :D so thats a really sweet sceptile. (it also has leech seed and synthesis - beautiful sub-seeder in my opinion.)

as for breeding a metagross with the right hidden power, that will be much more difficult. since it is genderless, you can only breed it with dittos. finding a ditto with the right nature and even one appropriate stat is difficult enough. you would probably end up having to breed a ditto with one good stat with a metagross with 3 good stats, hoping to pass all three of those to the baby. and thats gonna take a long time i think. (i would really like to breed for a hp fire magnezone one day, so i will probably be going down this long and narrow road at some stage......)

actually it just so happens that there is a nice hp fire quiet metagross on smogon..........

of course, for all this to work, you will need a reliable method of checking the IVs of your pokemon, especially babies at level 1. you can do this with IV battles or using action replay codes. alternatively, you can use rare candies to level up to a level where you can check them via an online IV calculator (there is a good one on psypoke).

the bottom line is that hidden power breeding is extremely difficult. it should probably only be attempted by someone who has a lot of experience in general IV breeding. so i dont know if this information is useful to you, but maybe someone else will benefit from it.

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Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:41 pm
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Ok, now I understand, yeah it does seem like it'd take a while so I'm not totally shelving the project but it'll prolly be a while before I start the Metagross, and I think after I have my Weavile I'll toy with my HP- Ice Infernape, thanks for the help, it's gunna be a challenge but I might find the time to do this some time, but for now I'll juct pick an alternative Metagross moveset. Thanks for the help!

Edit:
Cuddles wrote:

actually it just so happens that there is a nice hp fire quiet metagross on smogon..........


yeah thats what I was trying to duplicate :violin:


Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:06 pm
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i mean there is a "real" one. you could always try and breed something else and try and use it to get that metagross in a trade. actually i have a copy of it (and it's redistributable) so if you come up with something good, we could do a trade. let me know if you come up with a good hp ice infernape.....

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Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:24 am
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That'd be really awesome, is there anything you're looking for? If you don't already have them I have all the event pokemon except ATK/DEF Deoxis, all legit if your interested PM me and I'll get their natures and everything. Before I start on the Infernape I want to finish my


{weavile} Jolly @Expert Belt EV’s: 40HP/252ATK/216SPE
Pursuit - Ice Punch
Brick Break - Night Slash


Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:33 am
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Question...how many of you have actually tried breeding for HP types and actually succeeded? If so, how long did you take? I've only done it once, and I certainly don't feel like doing it another time...it takes too much effort. :?


Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:42 pm
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I haven't tried it yet, I'm researching how to do so and it does look like it's going to be a pain in the arse, so I might only do it when a moveset requires HP.


Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:53 pm
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It's not so bad if you have good parents, but otherwise don't even bother.

For the most part, Speed, Sp Atk, and Sp Def are the three main deciding factors for your HP type due to the formula. So, given that those three are correct, about half of the time you should have the correct hidden power.

For example, to get the highest possible IV's for Hidden Power Ice, you should have o/e/e/o/o/o (31/30/30/31/31/31). But, thanks to the formula, it's possible to have e/o/e/o/o/o or e/e/e/o/o/o or even o/o/o/o/o/e. So, that's 4 chances out of 64 total, or 1/16 that you have HP Ice. However, already given that you have x/x/x/o/o/o, you have 3 out of 8 to have HP Ice, six times the chance just by having three odds at the end.

It's kind of hard to explain, but I found a good guide for it here.

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Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:07 am
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From personal experience is it easier to determine IV's by leveling it up to 100 with rare candies, or finding someone to IV battle? I'm strongly against using my AR when it comes to things I can do myself but in this case I could stand to use them on the parents to determine the IV's, breed accordingly, then when the final product hatches run it through the E4 like I've always done (after EV training of course).

Edit: Thanks for the guide


Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:19 am
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For practicality purposes, an IV check battle is easier, since you can do it very quickly and can check multiple babies at once. Whereas, if you use Rare Candies to level up, you have to get 100 of them first, then feed them to the pokemon, and then when you find out that you are one IV off of what you want, you get to try it again with the next baby. Very time consuming.

If you don't have wifi though, I suppose that the rare candies could be used. I advise only leveling them up to about level 50 or so at first - it will be obvious if you havent gotten correct IVs in the three key stats by then, and if everything looks good, then you can level it up to 100 and check them again, or just teach it HP and use it on a Kecleon. If Kec' becomes Ice type, your golden, if not, restart.

Actually, I suppose that you could just teach it Hidden Power and use it on a Kecleon from the start. Since you would have been manipluting several of the IVs to get it anyway, theres a good chance that that would be the one you'd want.

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Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:55 pm
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EvilPenguin wrote:
Whereas, if you use Rare Candies to level up, you have to get 100 of them first,


Thats why I would use my AR to get me 999 rare candies and use them on the parents, I do see you point though.


Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:43 pm
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Drake McGyver wrote:
From personal experience is it easier to determine IV's by leveling it up to 100 with rare candies, or finding someone to IV battle? I'm strongly against using my AR when it comes to things I can do myself but in this case I could stand to use them on the parents to determine the IV's, breed accordingly, then when the final product hatches run it through the E4 like I've always done (after EV training of course).

Edit: Thanks for the guide


i would have thought that using an action replay to do things you could do anyway is a more "morally right" thing to do! (if thats what you mean by "strongly against"). this relates to your rare candy example. in theory you could play through the games 200 times, getting the rare candies that are scattered around hoenn. or you could get millions of battle points in the battle tower and get heaps of rare candies as prizes.

that guide is decent, but it pales in comparison to the smogon guide, which is where i learnt everything i know. it seems smogon's forums are down at the moment though, so you wont be able to access their guide right now. it has ALL the information (not just taser's favourite types lol). it also tells you how to get those parents that everyone says you need to use. it has probabilities as well. basically EVERYTHING you could POSSIBLY need to know is there.

i hope smogon hurries up and gets back online - i thought it was only sposed to be for a few days.

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Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:56 pm
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AMAZING NEWS!

I just bred a

{infernape} (female) with HP - Ice, (power of 47). I'm very happy with this result but I have a question, I did not yet EV train the Infernape, once I do so will that change the HP type or power? If so how can I preserve this result. If you'd feel more assured by checking the IV's yourselves and then determining the type the exact stats of the Infernape are...

(lvl 100)
Nature: Naive
HP: 274
ATK: 219
DEF: 175
SpA: 216
SpD: 133
SPE: 255


Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:33 pm
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Errr....Good news and Bad news....The good news is you succeeded in something really difficult....The bad news is, you can't EV train your Infernape any longer now cos it's at lvl 100. EV Feed with health drinks yes...but not train. You can't lvl anymore, so you won't gain the extra stats. :?


Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:16 am
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Haha, I planned for that. See I never saved the game so I can still go back and EV train in case this would have happened. SO if I EV train it and re-level it will the HP and power still be the same? Thats why I didn't EV train it at first.


Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:49 am
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Well then, the bad news becomes good news then. Nope EVs don't affect HP Types at all, you can EV train all you want but HP's type won't change no matter what, because Pokemon IVs don't change however much you want them to. :)


Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:49 am
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Awesome, thats really cool, I'll start EV training her then, thanks for everyones help and advice!


Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:23 am
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