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 The State of the Community and Power Abuse 
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Psypoke Legend
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Well it's drawing close to the end of the year. It's been extremely busy for us, as the webmasters, with Amphy practically disappearing for the first half of the year, myself for the second half, and Frost and darkmind both simply unavailable due to educational commitments.

I feel kinda bad saying this, but it just seems the community's sliding down a hill. With New Year's approaching, I think there could be some changes around the place. Perhaps some more understanding and mutual agreements. Better communication around the place.

What am I talking about?

Firstly, and I have expressed this sentiment to some people already, but after trivia on the 2nd, all I got was complaints and stupid comments. Not one person thanked me for my time, and let me tell you, it isn't easy coming up with questions and and hosting. How I do I know? I've been doing it for the past two years, by myself. And that's something (among a lot of other things) that people seemingly take for granted. Now I'm not suggesting you start praising me for absolutely everything I do, I'm just saying.. be a bit more appreciative of things instead of complaining.

Secondly, "power abuse". I've noticed a lot of people leaving because apparently the mods abuse their powers. I've always said that if you have issues with the moderators, to come and see one of the admins (namely myself or Amphy) and we will sincerely try to sort out the problem. I don't know about Amphy, but I haven't received a single PM complaining about this. Furthermore, I don't read every single thread on the forums, so if you decide to rant about this matter somewhere there, I probably won't read it.

And that's another thing. What constitutes power abuse? I took a quick survey, and generally it's using moderator powers (in this situation) without a good reason.

Let's think about this for a second. If a moderator edits your post, are you seriously going to be "happy" with it? Like, regardless of the reason, I don't think a lot of people would be happy. Try to think of this from our perspective for once. We get bloody sick and tired of people doing things over and over again, even after repeated reminders. The biggest offences are spam, incomprenhensible English and advertising. We aren't robots. We're getting quite annoyed with it, and often, we simply just deal with the problem without providing a reason.

For example, I look at nfield's posts in Help, where he always goes "Topic locked, please see a moderator blahblah", and I always think, "I can't believe he can be bothered doing that all the time".

Another thing is that for us who have been here for a long time... we just think that the community could simply be a little less.. stupid. Psypoke didn't used to be like this. We used to be able to have sensible conversation on hot topics without it erupting into chaos, and we've tried that several times here, but it's proven that it simply cannot exist at the moment. In other words, we're sick of being babysitters who have to constantly sort out arguments between immature members of the forums. I understand a lot of you are under 15 years old, which in my own opinion is a bit too young for the forums, but please, at least make an effort to follow the rules and be mature.

However, I do agree that there has been a few cases of power abuse, and I've had a serious talk with the staff about this, and some have confessed to "editing posts for laughs, but only because the poster deserved it". And furthermore, I've told them to stop that, and only edit if posts are breaking forum rules.

Another note, some people have been leaving in a huff over some matters. While I respect their decisions, I do not appreciate people hearing one side of the story and then beginning to accuse the staff of something they have not done. The PokeQuest incident last year was a classic case of this.

And finally, on a related note: attention seekers. Please ignore them.
<img src="http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs11/300W/i/2006/226/a/c/im_leaving_foreverz_by_hibbary.jpg">
Taken from DeviantArt, the Artist's Comments are:
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Yes, the drama llama is leaving the internet foreverz (spelling errors are intentional).

This llama suffers from acute internet suicide syndrome. The problem? He usually doesn't stay dead. In fact, quite the opposite. 'Foreverz' isn't really a long time to this llama.


Let me stress that I'm not blaming either the staff nor the community. I just think there could be less back-stabbing and accusing, and more communication. We're still human beings on this forum.

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Last edited by TonberryKing on Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:29 pm
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Psypoke Legend
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TonberryKing wrote:
Secondly, "power abuse". I've noticed a lot of people leaving because apparently the mods abuse their powers. I've always said that if you have issues with the moderators, to come and see one of the admins (namely myself or Amphy) and we will sincerely try to sort out the problem. I don't know about Amphy, but I haven't received a single PM complaining about this. Furthermore, I don't read every single thread on the forums, so if you decide to rant about this matter somewhere there, I probably won't read it.


I don't get any of these PMs and havent received any from those who recently left in a big huff. I even went to the trouble of PMing Miasma asking who had abused their privileges. I assured him that any parties he named would not find out he told me. He read the message but never replied. There's nothing the admins can do to help if you don't talk to us. It annoys me to hell when people scream "IM LEAVING BECAUSE OF THE POWER ABUSE HERE!" and they don't even want to resolve it. It means they are just leaving to try to make a scene.

We try to keep things fair and to be honest. We don't really care when people leave over issues without discussing their problems first as it means they never intended the problem to be resolved. People unwilling to resolve things are "difficult" people to work with and shouldn't belong to a community anyway. Thus, when they leave it's no great loss.

That's my two cents worth.


Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:45 pm
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You guys are right some of the mods such as (not posting names) have been doing things that I think are mean to users and the other members of the forums and some mods such as(not posting names here) are locking topics without a good reason and instead post immature images or messages.I think that these people should stop and the mods who do this kind of stuff(I think in my opinion)should be band or have there name striped as a mod because if they continue to do this more and more members are going to leave Psypoke and are not going to like this site if it continues.That's all I have to say.

Edited (nfield/10 Dec 2006): Your signature is massive -- please adjust it so it falls under the height limit of two hundred (200) pixels.


Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:05 pm
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Pokemaniac wrote:
You guys are right some of the mods such as (not posting names) have been doing things that I think are mean to users and the other members of the forums and some mods such as(not posting names here) are locking topics without a good reason and instead post immature images or messages.I think that these people should stop and the mods who do this kind of stuff(I think in my opinion)should be band or have there name striped as a mod because if they continue to do this more and more members are going to leave Psypoke and are not going to like this site if it continues.That's all I have to say.


Looks like someone hasn't been listening :p

I agree completely with TK and Amphy. I get annoyed when people leave because mods have been "abusing powers" As TK said, the most sensible thing would to be to contact either him or Amphy and try to resolve it.


Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:10 pm
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On behalf of all those who attended the Trivia, Tonberry, We are thankful, and grateful. I guess we forgot because, well, I have no clue. It was very fun. Even though I personally didn't win anything, the competition was nice and challenging.

All together now:
Thank you Tonberry King for the EXCITING TRIVIA!!!

As for power abuse, I would be afraid to contact anyone. Because it won't be anonymous. "Peanut-Lover said that you, *insert mod here* overstepped your boundaries by deleting his topic." Obviously, that mod will now have a hard feeling against me. No, 99% of the time, that wouldn't happen, but some members do feel that it could. And I have this to say to them:

YOU WILL NOT BE TREATED ANY DIFFERENTLY IF YOU REPORT A MOD TO AN ADMINISTRATOR!!!!

That is all. (No, I am neither a mod, nor a high-ranking position. However, I do try to put myself in the mod and administrators' positions.)


Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:11 pm
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Peanut-Lover wrote:
On behalf of all those who attended the Trivia, Tonberry, We are thankful, and grateful. I guess we forgot because, well, I have no clue. It was very fun. Even though I personally didn't win anything, the competition was nice and challenging.

All together now:
Thank you Tonberry King for the EXCITING TRIVIA!!!

As for power abuse, I would be afraid to contact anyone. Because it won't be anonymous. "Peanut-Lover said that you, *insert mod here* overstepped your boundaries by deleting his topic." Obviously, that mod will now have a hard feeling against me. No, 99% of the time, that wouldn't happen, but some members do feel that it could. And I have this to say to them:

YOU WILL NOT BE TREATED ANY DIFFERENTLY IF YOU REPORT A MOD TO AN ADMINISTRATOR!!!!

That is all. (No, I am neither a mod, nor a high-ranking position. However, I do try to put myself in the mod and administrators' positions.)


I think that you bring up a very good point with the "fear of being named as a complainer and making things worse." I personally have the strictest confidence that the admins wouldn't overlook such an issue.

I really don't have much to add to this, because TK's post pretty much explained everything. I know I don't post much here, and it's partly for the reasons he stated. This place isn't the Psypoke I joined back in the day. All this drama and immaturity and whining. It's not very conducive to a community.


Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:34 pm
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2x4b wrote:
Pokemaniac wrote:
You guys are right some of the mods such as (not posting names) have been doing things that I think are mean to users and the other members of the forums and some mods such as(not posting names here) are locking topics without a good reason and instead post immature images or messages.I think that these people should stop and the mods who do this kind of stuff(I think in my opinion)should be band or have there name striped as a mod because if they continue to do this more and more members are going to leave Psypoke and are not going to like this site if it continues.That's all I have to say.


Looks like someone hasn't been listening :p

I agree completely with TK and Amphy. I get annoyed when people leave because mods have been "abusing powers" As TK said, the most sensible thing would to be to contact either him or Amphy and try to resolve it.
Um 2x4b whats that supposed to mean?

Mr.Saturn your right when I joined back in August I loved this place to death but nowadays things seem boring people spam a little bit more an most of all people get angry and agressive over the smallest things and people have been making stupid topics too.Oh yes and the whole drama bs needs to stop.Just a heads up people

Edited (nfield/10 Dec 2006): Merged the two posts together. You've been here since August (which, what you make sound like a long time, is in fact not), and you're double posting? Refer to the forum rules before making another post.

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Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:35 pm
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i feel the same way. i just found out about these forums about a month ago, and i don't intend to have the forums taken away. i think most people are just being jerks because most people that are teenagers (like me) are having a hard time at middle and high school and have nothing to take their anger out on except... here. that, or they are just plain jerks. but they don't realize what will happen in the future of this site, that it could soon go down, because they think so much about the present, that they don't realize what could happen in the future. they also don't realize what happened in the past, how there were 4 others psypoke sites and then eventually all went down, and i don't want that to eventually happen to this 5th site, too, except this time, it won't be because of a faulty sever, but because of the ignorance of the people here at psypokes. i mean, they don't see how much hard work tonberryking, amphy, frost, and darkmind put into this site; i mean, you guys are in college now (not so sure about frost, but anyway), and it must take a lot of study time away for you to pull this off, so the rest of you at psypokes, don't be so ignorant.

bottom line: i DO NOT want to have psypokes taken away!

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Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:59 pm
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Pokemaniac wrote:
You guys are right some of the mods such as (not posting names) have been doing things that I think are mean to users and the other members of the forums and some mods such as(not posting names here) are locking topics without a good reason and instead post immature images or messages.I think that these people should stop and the mods who do this kind of stuff(I think in my opinion)should be band or have there name striped as a mod because if they continue to do this more and more members are going to leave Psypoke and are not going to like this site if it continues.That's all I have to say.


I'm not banning anyone. The Admins rarely ban anyone unless theyve done something terribly terribly wrong...we are so forgiving it's not even funny. This goes for both mods and regular users. We wont situations resolved and prefer talking over just irrational banning.

And what you are saying here is a prime example of what we are trying to say. You are complaining about mods doing this yet don't discuss it. Things can't be fixed unless we know. We don't have the time to read every post in the forums.

Peanut-Lover wrote:
As for power abuse, I would be afraid to contact anyone. Because it won't be anonymous.


We understand how hard it is to approach an admin about a mod and we obviously aren't going to repeat names. Anything you come to us with is in strictest confidence. We will go and look at the post in question and then sort the situation.

I don't see how a mod could hold a grudge, because if they kept stepping the line and causing trouble for us (admins), they would just lose their priviliges. We want things to run smoothly because it means less work for us!


Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:05 pm
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in addition to that humungo speech, a moderator edited somthing in my post (to lock it) and i didn't care at all, and im pretty sensitive. meanwhile, people are quitting just because they get their posts changed. i don't see what's wrong with that.

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Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:39 pm
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Wella moderator won't just edit someones post becuase there bored. They are obviously editing your post becuase you've posted something you shouldn't have or your spamming(I should now I'm a moderator).

As for the thing about how the forum used to be:

The forum changes becuase of the rapid growth we've had from the beginning till now. Out off all the new members who join there's always going to be an idiot.

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Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:13 pm
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Latios wrote:

The forum changes becuase of the rapid growth we've had from the beginning till now. Out off all the new members who join there's always going to be an idiot.


I think you misunderstand. People aren't discouraged over "an idiot." We are discouraged over SEVERAL idiots. People who need constant reminders and warnings about things, from pointless spamming to, say, not listening to mod requests about signatures.

A lot of the restrictions we have put in place is because people have been abusive of their priveleges. We had to crack down on sigs because people had large ones with like 10 animated gifs in them. We had to crack down on alternate accounts because of people abusing the "Starting Psybucks" gift we give to new users so they can have more internet money.

Don't think this is just about one or two people. If it were, wouldn't you think these people would be promptly straightened out, and we'd all go about our merry business? No, this is the majority. People who can post maturely are the minority here. This is what we are concerned and disheartened about.


Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:46 pm
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TK, I am immensely sorry for anything I said during the Trivia. I was going to add something after it to clarify that it wasn't a complaint, just an observation, but you logged off before I could finish.

In all my long time being here, I've never encountered any example of power abuse. (I don't know if it's because I've never encountered power abuse and therefore don't know how to recognize it, I've never seen it ANYWHERE.) And I don't really think there's much problem with the community. Yes, I do know of a huge bunch of idiots (and I'm naming no names) but it happens. This is a forum, it happens. But I'm not endorsing these guys, I'm just saying that there's little you can do to keep them away forever.

And I also agree with Amphy that the mods here are so forgiving, it almost seems weird. I have nothing against contacting a mod (something I rarely if ever do, because it seems unnecessary). But maybe I'm just one of the disillusioned in here. I don't know.

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Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:24 pm
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I don't think any type of announcement, new rule, or reminder, no matter how often or how sincerely stated will change the state of the site. Pokémon is a subject that will attract a rather young crowd, and the forums will typically reflect the (im)maturity of these younger members. Anyone older would be reluctant to join or stay after joining because of this. Not much can be done to change this. I believe the rules attempt to fix the problem by limiting abuses on the forums which waste time, space, and ultimately money, but the rules also discourage discussion (like the worthless necromancy rule).

One can't expect the forums to change without doing something about it. Simply disciplining people isn't enough to change the forums. If someone cares enough about the content of the forums to complain about it, one should take time to improve it by posting themselves, and encouraging better, constructive posts. This includes moderators. It doesn't make sense to abstain from posting, because you might receive immature replies.


Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:25 pm
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Firstly, I would like to apologise to the admins for whatever I have said in the past. You have made this amazing site, and I am thankful.

Second, I have never seen mods "abusing priveliges". On the other hand, what I have seen is when a moderator simply dismisses a topic as "pointless" or "a waste of time", and complains constantly about the lack of sensible discussion on these boards. I will say this again, as I have said before:

If you honestly think that there aren't enough good topics, start some yourself. There will be a higher number of sensible replies than the idiotic ones.

I don't critisize the moderators themselves; personally, I think they do a quite decent job.

There are a huge amount of idiots on this forum, but at the same time, there are also a large number of intelligent, sensible people. Why should they stop trying to make reasonded, interesting debate just because of the aformentioned idiots?

I make no claim that I am a senior member, nor that I have been at Psypoke for a long time. I only wish to this forum as I have been told it was in the past.

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Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:02 am
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Right, since the date that we all joined seems to be taken into consideration, I don't know how seriously you all want to take this post, but what the heck, I'm a member, so I'll have my say.

This site is great. Never have I witnessed such a welcoming atmosphere anywhere, internet/real life ( :wink: ). When I first joined, it was great, and still is.

But I share GQ's opinion - there are some Gym Leaders that dismiss others topics etc with little consideration. I cannot give an example without "landing someone in it," but I thought that you might want to hear this. I understand that the moderators don't want to spend hours of their time cleaning up the forums, but some Moderators do it in a light hearted way, yet manage to make the rules clear, like outlining the rule that the offender as broken, but including a :wink: somewhere in the post, so it does not appear to the offender that they have upset an almighty moderator, and thus fear them forever and ever amen. :wink:

I do however, think that people leaving because of this "moderator abusing their power" rubbish is absolutely absurd. This is/was their forum, and if they didn't like something about it, they should have come and told you. I hope this is what you would all expect, the idea of "if it's broken, get someone to fix it," because that is the impression I got from here.

I personally hadn't noticed this problem until this was all pointed out; I couldn't decode the cryptic messages people were leaving in the Goodbye thread, but, if its worth even a little, I love this site and the people in it. I don't want a sixth Psypokes, this one is quite fine in my opinion.

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Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:43 am
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goldenquagsire wrote:

If you honestly think that there aren't enough good topics, start some yourself. There will be a higher number of sensible replies than the idiotic ones.


DatVu wrote:
If someone cares enough about the content of the forums to complain about it, one should take time to improve it by posting themselves, and encouraging better, constructive posts.


If the situation were not so far advanced, such a thing would not be a problem. The problem is that the majority of people who reply to threads are either trying to up their post count with a "yeah, i agree wit you", or lack the capacity to discuss anything in a sensible manner.

example

One time, a thread about Hurricane Katrina was started. It quickly degraded into a "discussion" about whether Katrina was punishment handed down by God.

Religion topics shouldn't be off-limit. You know why they are? The majority of the forumgoers are incapable of debating a touchy topic for more than one page. While sensible people can debate a subject without resorting to personal attacks or logical fallacies, the same cannot be said of the average member of this community.


Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:56 am
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Fair point, but I have two remarks:

1. You're probably right. Religion is a bad topic for a bunch of twelve year olds to discuss. That doesn't mean that you can't have interesting debate about less touchy subjects. Take the "Dreams" thread that you complained about being a "spammish topic". On another forum that I belong to, the EXACT same topic was posted. There was an actual discussion about it, and it still hasn't been locked or spammed in.

2. Maybe if the more senior members and those with power, i.e. the mods posted good replies and set an example, then the newbies would get an impression of how to post. I learnt forum etiquette from others' examples.

Yet again, I'm not against you, I'm simply trying to suggest ways that we could make these forums better.

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Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:05 pm
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I'm not a regular, I only post here for kicks and giggles lol. But compared to any other forum I have visited in the past this place is really strict. I think some mods may be power-happy or just bored so they do as they please. (DAT VU. I keed.) Though I really have no idea what goes on lol I just thought some things I saw were really lame and unnecessary. It's uncomfortable to post here, afraid that your post or replies may be considered "spam."

You can't really expect too much of intelligent conversation at a pokemon board. Most people who play pokemon are young, so you can't really blame them for being immature. I can't believe people would even complain about the lack of intelligent topics lol. If you have a problem with it, start some yourself. Set an example of posts you would like to see. So what if you get stupid replies.. end of the world? Scroll past. You think people are trying to up their post count? World crisis. It's different if someone actually SPAMS a board, but small comments/replies are not going to kill you.

If you are concerned about how much bandwidth is going to cost by number of replies you should have considered that before starting a forum. Especially about a game that many young people play.

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Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:27 pm
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Please, don't take this personally, but the majority of people here (or at least, I make this assumption on their intelligence) are older than the "people that play pokemon" that you refer to in your post. I'm sixteen, and I play the games due to their strategy, not because of some cute mouse that electricutes anything that moves.

And the reason that the people are "strict" here is probably because they need to be; occaisionally, some random Pokemon fan wil stumble by, sign up, and spam up the topics with "lol did u c dat one last night wer pikachoo did dat funder fing lol."

Because of Pokemon's advertisment to younger people, children are more inclined to treat it as a phase, or craze (wow, ryhmingness,) and then get bored because they can't get through Mt. Moon. From what I have seen Psypoke isn't like that, we treat it seriously, like the RPG game that wastes hours of everyones time as we all sit there, anticipating the best moveset for a Pokemon that doesn't even have an English name yet (well, I do at least...)

This is why the Moderators are so strict with the rules, I believe. To show the chavvy little munchkins that come to the site with the hopes of meeting other seven year olds to discuss the childish side of Pokemon. Spam and unintelligent conversation occurs because of peoples ignorance as opposed to their age, in my opinion.

As I said, don't take that personally, it was just me trying to sort my head out as to why you thought the moderators were strict. :wink:

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Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:38 pm
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FireStarter wrote:
The problem is that the majority of people who reply to threads are either trying to up their post count with a "yeah, i agree wit you", or lack the capacity to discuss anything in a sensible manner.

If people aren't interested in posting for this very reason, then everyone might as well give up. Simply saying how this forum is immature won't cause a change in people or make them enlightened to posting more thought out replies. More than half the people here won't even read this announcement. I know I'm just reiterating myself, but I can't just sit here and believe that I shouldn't post in light of this.

It doesn't matter if I post about American pedagogy and the educational system or how great I think orange juice is, there's always going to be the post count +1 replies and stupid interjections, so I might as well talk about something worth while. Enough people have left because of this state we're in, and I'm sure people would have stayed had there been better things to talk about here, despite the morons who participated in the discussion. One can't create an intelligent atmosphere, making stupid people uncomfortable to be a part of a community they can't relate to, if someone doesn't make one.


Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:38 pm
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The Obsidian Wolf wrote:
This is why the Moderators are so strict with the rules, I believe. To show the chavvy little munchkins that come to the site with the hopes of meeting other seven year olds to discuss the childish side of Pokemon. Spam and unintelligent conversation occurs because of peoples ignorance as opposed to their age, in my opinion.


On the whole, I think it's more a case of teenagers who join and think that they're clever because they think they're the oldest fans around, so they decide to act like arseholes.

How odd that a proper, actual debate is happening in an announcement, when nothing of the sort seems to happen in the General Discussion.

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Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:43 pm
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Because it is assumed we can't have them even before we try; when we do try, we're greeted by a parallel topic about socks and the will of God; if that isn't a message of "quit and stop posting because you're hopeless", I don't know what is.

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Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:58 pm
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Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 792
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You know, this is the very first post I've made here since my computer's been fixed (a.k.a. today) and I just want to say that the 5 or 6 days that I couldn't get on Psypoke were just about the most pain-staking and boring days of my life. Even now, my favorite thing to do here on Psypoke, making art, is still in the works, as my Adobe Photoshop CS is gone. Yet, I, the 14 year old, still love this site as much as it were part of my everday life.

The whole post that Tonberry King made was absolutely right, meaning that I agree with everything from a sort of respect to the hate/'I'm leaving Psypoke because of the Mods and Admins' posts people have been making.
I know some people that spammed up their account just before leaving Psypoke, just so the Admins and Mods have to clean it up. I hate people like that- though unfortunatly some of our most faithful people in Psypoke have said that. I for one think that the Mods and Admins have been doing a great job, and I thank you all for that. There wouldn't be any Psypoke without you.
Now, if those people have left because the Team Leaders have been abusing their powers, then they have either two sensible options- quit the Team, or quit the Team and tell an Admin. I know that quite a few of Team Inferno's members said that they joined Inferno because it was their favorite team, and because I was the leader. That's not ment to be a bragging comment! It's good. Both Teams and any other thread should have good Moderators that are fair.

That brings me to my next comment: people do have too many spelling errors. Most people don't even try to make it look good; they just try to get their messege across. Here's a good example of that:
Some random person wrote:
hi guyz how are u? i just wanted to spam up sypokez so that the modz get mad hey r u guyz going to get on the chatz then?
Now I for one understand it if someone has a few spelling mistakes here or there, but that's rediculous. And there are some people around Psypoke who actually do that.

Here's my last comment: try not to spam up Psypoke, it is a community that we all share. I do understand to a point how moderators feel, and I hate it when I have to lock a good topic or edit/delete someones post because I know what it's like to be the one getting my post edited. I feel bad. Now, I'm not trying to sound like a nerd, but let's all make a better Psypoke for the better.


Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:58 pm
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Lite Four
Lite Four
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Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Posts: 521
Location: OKC
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DatVu wrote:
FireStarter wrote:
The problem is that the majority of people who reply to threads are either trying to up their post count with a "yeah, i agree wit you", or lack the capacity to discuss anything in a sensible manner.

If people aren't interested in posting for this very reason, then everyone might as well give up.

FireStarter wrote:
Which is exactly what I've done, giving up and letting it all go until the stupidity eventually grows to the point that every worthwhile member the of community decides to leave.



EDIT

I feel like I sounded a little too dramatic and self-important in that post, so I'll rephrase that.

---

Which is exactly what I've done. I'm waiting until the situation either works itself out, or until the stupidity reaches the point that most worthwhile members of the forum leave. I'll happily join them in doing so if it ever comes to that.


Last edited by FireStarter on Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:08 pm
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