The Elements
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Author:  Thunder_dude7 [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  The Elements


Author:  Thunder_dude7 [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:51 am ]
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Author:  Diamond55000 [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:38 pm ]
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It moves kinda fast, and you don't use the elements of writing at all. I can imagine how this may be hard but you should use the basics of imagery to some extent at least. This means that you should describe the characters and the physical environment in some detail for the reader, while you may be able to see the scene in your head we can't, so you should focus on the descriptions. It's the end of the first chapter and the reader doesn't even know what The Twins look like.
Also, what happened to the girl in the ice, is she dead? What does she look like? The same for the Girl Twins (the looks not the dead part).
When Tor was in the water what was going on, was he being pulled by the current? Why didn't the girl with the power over water pull him out? Better yet why didn't he levitate himself out since he seems to have the power over the wind?
In conclusion, focus on your descriptions. There is a formula for this, I believe a good story has about 70% description and 30% dialouge. Although it is up to you on what you may feel is important in your story.Anyways continue on, I look forward to what you may write in the future. 8-)

Author:  Psyches [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:53 pm ]
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It's just boring.

I read the first post and there was no hint of a plot, I had no desire to read the next chapter. It's boring.

Make me care and I'll want to read about the characters because I care about them. Right now, I don't care. It's boring.

Author:  Thunder_dude7 [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:22 pm ]
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Author:  The Obsidian Wolf [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:00 pm ]
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It's just boring.

I read the first post and there was no hint of a plot, I had no desire to read the next chapter. It's boring.

There is a hint of a plot, more than a hint of a plot. The whole legend at the beginning regarding the odd person who flies up into space, foreshadows the journey that the six children will undertake. I'd say this gives it more than a hint as to a plot in the making.

A couple of issues though; you need to focus on the character's emotional state. The kids were having a bedtime story read to them and while you may have only used it to bring in the legend, it sort of conveys their vulnerability, perhaps their dependance on their parents? But then when they go into this tournament thing, they don't seem to have any worry in them. It's like they're fearless, which doesn't strike me as being particularly human.

Also, you might need to define the characters a little more. Six characters is a hefty amount to maintain, and elemental powers just won't seperate one name from another. A description of each would be useful, and perhaps you could have introduced them slower, so that we could get an idea of who each one was and what they are like.

Some parts are cinematic. While I know that you are playing this all out in your head (and when I play it out in mine, it looks damn good, kudos to you) it makes it feel a little...corny? Take this part:

Liat instantly panicked. “I can’t die now!” He thought “I have to take this thing out!”

“Time to show her who she’s dealing with!” Tor thought “Here we go!”

“I may prefer healing others over battling,” Cerulea thought “But when I must fight, I will fight!”

“Don’t worry, Cerulea,” Crystal thought “I won’t let you down.”

I can see how that would work on 'the big screen' and man, it would be damn effective. But this actually reads like it's directions for a film and loses the drama that you were trying to create.

Oh, another problem that isn't too big an issue is the ending to the last one:

“Ah, good, you’re awake,” The familiar voice said “I need to clarify something with you.” She walked closer as she continued “Being frozen in a block of ice isn’t fun. Prepare yourselves to die.”

If she wants to clarify something, why is she about to kill them? When sounding dramatic, or making a character sound dramatic, you must ensure to make them look as natural as possible. I used to have this problem all the time, and the dramatic, cliched catchphrases of my villains ended up highlighting my own stupidity, as well as the character's. When reading it through, constantly think to yourself 'would this really happen?' (within limits, of course, magical water abilities etc isn't exactly realistic, but you get my point. ;) )

In short (lol, irony?) this is a brilliantly thought up fic and I can see that you've put a lot of effort into writing it and making the whole world seem alive (which you've suceeded in doing so, and I love it.) The only problem is character development and authorial narrative over cinematic scenes.

Keep this up, the plot is excellent (and yes, there is one Psyches) and I look forward to the next chapter.


Author:  poplers [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:36 pm ]
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I just find that every single piece of dialogue is extremely cliché and kind of dumb and easily predictable. As I was reading through the prologue, I sort of looked at it like an easy to predict movie, which was bad. Those movies are never entertaining when you can figure out what the person will say next. Just make your people's speech much more awkward, or much more real, as compared to
Every single cliché rolled into one wrote:

And from the dialogue, I wouldn't expect any more from you frankly.

The story is decent, not really captivating, but the dialogue is obscene and predictable. :(

Author:  Thunder_dude7 [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:56 pm ]
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Author:  Psyches [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:50 pm ]
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Thunder_dude7 wrote:
Obs, my reasoning for the character change would be the time lapse. In the prologue, Liat and Tor are 7. In chapter one, they are 13. Aging causes character change in the real world, and should come along in books as well. I do see your point about fearlessness, but I think Liat's thought when encountering the Serpentine slightly combats that. I suppose I should make more to address that issue, though.

So, the things I need to work on are:

Character Development (I knew this would be an issue)
Cinematic and predicable dialouge

PS Thanks for the defense, I almost wanted to attack Psyches when I read it. i don't think I'll have to worry about him reading that, he obviously isn't following this story anymore.

Don't try and give me sh!t for being honest with you about your story. You've said some extremely unjustified and nasty things on mine, at least I gave construcitve criticism whereas you just slander people's stories.

It's the difference between intelligence and stupidity. See, I'm intelligent... And you... well...

Author:  Thunder_dude7 [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:08 pm ]
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Author:  Crimson [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:49 pm ]
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*sigh* Psyches, you're looking at this story from the point of view of someone who has experience. I lost track of how many times I've said it, but I'll continue to say it until you finally understand. We do not have your years or schooling experience. Most of the us do our best but we can't look at things the same way as you. Regardless, you have quite the temper; don't bother yelling at me, it is just what I've observed over time. If you have an issue with this then you can either take a look and see if you do come off that way at times or if I don't hear your intended tone. Online the latter is very probable. And if that's the case I apologize up front.

Thunder, you've yet to truly understand that you're not as good as you'd like to think. Yes, I am referring to the dreaded and annoying egotistical stage. Things aren't always going to be worded nicely. I'm sure you're trying to be a s gracious as possible whenever someone nicely points out an issue. In fact, you may not even mind it when they do it. But, when someone like Psyches, or even myself, is honest to the point of being rude most people bristle, feel insulted, and get defensive. It's natural, I still bristle sometimes. Insulting someone over it isn't the answer. In fact you're only adding fuel to the fire, and if Psyches is anything like me, he'll only be more encouraged.

With all honesty, I would probably agree that this was boring if I actually read it. But, I feel that way about most of the stories on this site so I tend to watch the reviews and briefly skim the chapters to see if there are any obvious technical issues. His comment that this was boring or that there was no apparent plot could just be his bias as to what he considers a good plot.

And Thunder, you haven't been all that sweet and cuddly either when commenting his stories.
Thunder_dude7 at "The Impossible Gym" wrote:

You lost my attention at "If I work for the ranger CORPS..."

He is such a gary-sue. He beats everybody who he fights. The fact that he is perfect is not just dangerous because it is unrealistic, but because he will beat any opponent effortlessly. Thus, no serious conflict will ever arise.

I just stopped reading at the line I mentioned.

Ironically, you two sound very much similar to my ears.

Let me propose what I hope will be a simple solution. Psyches, I love blunt honesty so I'm not saying stop that style of reviewing. But, please try to keep in mind that while it's important to tell people what's wrong with their work, it's also important to realize that the people on this site aren't professionals. When someone gets you mad, take a deep breath, walk away, or do whatever you have to to write a response back that won't escalate into a fight too much. Granted, that doesn't always work, I'm living proof, but just try to keep a semi-level head.

Thunder, work on that ego of yours. Don't give me "I don't think I'm all that great" because in some part of your head you do. It's obvious, especially in situations like this. When you're posting and your ego feels the sting of an insult go nurse your wounds quietly before responding. It saves us time and creates less tension.

Or, if you want a really simple solution, don't speak to each other. If you don't like each other, don't go where there's sure to be a fight or an argument. It's that simple.

Author:  poplers [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:06 pm ]
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:( This thread has made me sad.

As Psyches, you obviously know how to write, but that doesn't give you the RIGHT (HHAHAHAHAAHA LOLOL PLAY ON WORDS THAR EVERY1!!1) to go around bluntly bashing people's work. Just smooth out what you're trying to say and apply reasons to it. What I say is somewhat blunt, but I still provide reasoning to it, don't just say 'BLAH IM BORED ENTERTAIN ME' when you aren't providing any clue as to how to entertain you. Also, this library isn't here to entertain just you, one man's trash is another man's treasure. :o

Thunder, your ego is tooooooo large. That makes me sad too, as you think that your writing is as good as Psyches'. I'm all for an intelligent debate, but neither of you are being intelligent.

So please, both of you stop being so damn stupid and get a hold of yourself.
Psyches you're not 10, so stop acting like it.
Thunder, you might be 10, but write like you're 20 plx. Oh, and lose that giant thing called your ego. kthx.

Crimson, I still think you're cool. :p

As for the story, its decent, you know, not anything special, I just skimmed over these past updates, and I feel like it could use more depth to it, some symbolism, some imagery, some personification etc.. Just spice up your writing style and your writing techniques and your story could be good.

Its like a good screenplay for a movie, but the movie was acted out by bad actors. It could be good, but just needs better choices and execution. :(

Author:  Psyches [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:41 am ]
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Okay, Thunder, there comes a time in your life when you no longer care. Instead of try to help people, you just point them toward help. I don't have time to sit here going through your story and telling you the myriad of errors. Instead, I just say what the errors have caused- and that is boredom. It made me bored. I don't know you, from what you've posted in the past i don't particularly like you, so I'm not going to go inot depth because I don't care. BUt I will point you in the right direction. Your story bores me to no end.

Crimson, yes, you're right, I love you, marriage, love, pie, all that jazz. But he started this by unjustifiably criticizing my works. He has not reached the stage in life where he can justify being vague. I have.

And poplers, I like you so much more for what you wrote. You're a lot more intelligent than I first percieved. I shall watch you.

Author:  Thunder_dude7 [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:02 am ]
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Author:  Psyches [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:12 am ]
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Thunder_dude7 wrote:
I would like to point out that you made your "Boredom" comment before my comments on your story.

As for the ego, I realize that Crimson is superior to all and all of that jazz, but I do consider myself good after reading comments like these:

Whoa. This is awesome! I loved it!

Ooh, I like your intro.

I really like this, you've got some great ideas.

I think you have a good potential with this piece!

dude that was awsome!!!!!!!!!! I could really see where they were!i give it a 5 out of 5!


very nice peice of art here

This story is really good.

Great start.

It is important to understand that with the exception of the "Dude that was awesome" comment, these are excerpts. The 1st one also was not complete, but they didn't deliver any real criticism. The rest did.

(All comments copied from YWS)

Forgive me for not thinking much validity of the statements which are spelt incorrectly or which use improper grammar. I admit that I make many mistakes, but I will not adopt a different grammar structure for the sake of writing here and my spelling errors are only caused from typing too quickly and hitting the wrong keys.

Okay, I've re-read your story and although I'm not particularly fond of it, The second chapter is pretty good. I just want to know a few things.

I can't picture the snake creature in my head. You say it was like a snake but at its head there was a body of a woman? So a snake's body with a woman's body for a head? That makes me think of a woman with a huge snake's tale waving around from her neck.

And from the description I was completely confused about the children it was holding.

I hate when critiques say this- but if it were me writing... which it isn't...But even if I were investing in this story so it could be published I would say that the appearnce of the snake creature should be much bigger. The description and first movements of it before it spekas could take up a whole paragraph or two, just to set up the grandeur of the fight.

As for the dialogue, it's not quite as tacky as`I first thought, but it does need work. This is an epic, the story is big, so naturally the dramatic tension will be high, but the dialogue seems a bit too dramatic at some points. It needs to relax and loosen its tension, but on the same token it can't be too relaxed or it will seem thoughtless or frivolous.

I really wish you'd make more effort to describe the characters too, the new ones are confusing me, I don't even know how many there are now :S

Author:  Crimson [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:15 pm ]
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Thunder_dude7 wrote:
As for the ego, I realize that Crimson is superior to all and all of that jazz

It's your opinion, everyone has a right to that. I'm not going to try to persuade you otherwise.

Author:  Diamond55000 [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:38 pm ]
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Well, things have been..intresting here to say the least.

Thunder, I still think you should continue with the story no matter what. One bad comment isn't the end of it all. The general opinion seems to be that people like your story and you should by all means work to finish this piece.

That being said, improvement can be made. The first area you can improve on is description(yes, I know I've said it a thousand times before). With an avid description of the characters and setting you will ensure that the reader actually gets intrested enough to want to continue to read, since they can engross themselves in the novel. Description itself can only go so far, which is why action scence are important. When doing an action scence, or any really, you should always maintain a sense of remote realism. Your characters don't seems to have that certain spark that the reader can connect with, the emotions may be off. Playing on drama is another important point. I have to agree that some of your dialogue seems "staged". You are trying too hard to sound dramatic, when you stop trying to make a great masterpiece and write because you feel that it is genuine, is when you will succeed. Until then it will continue to sound awkward. So to summarize, you should work on:
character (emotion)
phraising of words to give a sense of genuine drama

Psyches, while you may feel that your comments are justified you do come accross as rather rude. This site is here so that we can all post our ideas in the hopes of improving even a little as writers. None of us are professional writers, so when posting your comments do try to use some tact.

Author:  Thunder_dude7 [ Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:20 pm ]
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Author:  The Obsidian Wolf [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:46 am ]
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Hooray, argument over, I'm not going to add fuel to a fast-dwindling fire.

Before you go and write the next chapter with 'ZOMG DESCRIPTION' on your mind, let me warn you:

Make the description relevant. There is nothing more annoying in a novel than over description where description is not necessary. Check this out:

Jenny (for she is always a good person for examples,) woke with a start. She threw back her patterned duvets, and glared at the offending alarm clock, its smooth chrome bells being attacked by the crashing inverted pendulum.

She hit the button that read 'off' and got out of bed, the feeling of her soft wool carpet producing a warm feeling in her toes...

Seriously, who actually cares? When writing parts with descriptive peices...(or rather, writing pieces with descriptive parts) you must make sure that the description you include is there for a reason.

So, as Psyches rightly said, the snake woman in the lake; at the part, you could have built tension by describing the snake woman's appearance out of the water and delayed the moment (building tension) when she first speaks by describing the 'manic and furious look in her eyes, etc.'

It gives it a bit more description which has a number of effects:

It tells the reader more, without it being boring.
It adds tension.
It adds length (which shouldn't be a main concern, but length can sometimes lead to tension which is good.)

Just keep that in mind when writing your next part.

Keep it up, this should be good. ;)

Author:  Psyches [ Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Elements

And more will be posted when?

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