Discovery of new Pokémon
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Author:  Charphlokenapoar [ Sat May 11, 2013 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Discovery of new Pokémon

This is something I've often wondered about. How do they discover these new Pokémon? There are three options that I can think of: 1) All the regions up until their games have been extremely cut off from each other. 2) The Pokémon of the new generations just started existing out of the blue. 3) People had only just moved to each new region, like the people only just moved to Johto region a few months or so prior to GSC.

I understand that they just couldn't have 600 something Pokémon right from the off, I'm fine with that. And I get that trying to understand the logic of a video game is silly, but I need to. Do they address this in the anime? I just don't understand how they could have lived so long in their world without knowing about the other Pokémon from other regions. I saw a scene from that movie with Jirachi, and they knew about Lucario way back before they even had Pokéballs. So why wasn't it a part of the original Dex? I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!

And where do they catch the starters, that's another question I've had. Can you ever catch a wild starter? Besides Pikachu, obviously.

Author:  Frost [ Sat May 11, 2013 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

The only regions that are actually next to each other in the games themselves are Kanto and Johto. In anime, Ash needed to take a ship to Hoenn, Sinnoh and Unova, while he, Misty and Brock walked to Johto from Pallet Town. So that alone explains how those regions, and in particular Unova, which is said to be extremely distant from the rest of the existing Regions, have all sorts of different Pokemon from each other. And I'd say existing in the same world doesn't necessarily mean that the average kid would know about Pokemon of other Regions. Like, I live in the United States but that doesn't mean I know much about native flora and fauna from Mexico and Canada even though, relatively speaking, those countries are right next door.

The fact that Kanto had only Kanto Pokemon exclusively in the Generation I-based games and then things were all mixed up and 100 other Pokemon just suddenly existed in the sequels is something that's never been addressed, really. In early GSC official documents, like the strategy guide?, they said that the Johto Pokemon were all newly discovered. Perhaps Kanto and Johto were actually isolated from each other and it was only in the interim between RBY and GSC that the routes between the two were constructed. Victory Road was vastly different between the two games, after all.

The anime addressed the question about the Starters. The Hoenn episode "A Mudkip Mission" showed that there are secluded areas where Pokemon Breeders raise Starter Pokemon without having to worry as much about outside forces like poachers, and most likely it's part of their job to raise these Pokemon so that it's easier for them to obey newer Trainers. After they're grown, they get sent to the Pokemon Professors or, in more primitive areas, the Pokemon Centers.

Author:  GhostPony750 [ Sat May 11, 2013 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

I agree with Frost.

But it seems that the logic in Pokemon is really... unrealistic.
They have magnet trains, pokeballs, other super-technologies... but they still need to walk to other cities, and sometimes they have cars, then they disappear, they still discover new regions already unhabited by humans, and new Pokemon...

In Emerald version, for exemple, you see a truck in the beggining of the game.
But there's no road, and you don't see this truck anymore in the game.

I always wanted to do a thread about this logic, but I tought it was not a good idea, since it probably transform into a rage thread of some sort.

Also... Diglet: "F**K logic, use scratch!"

Author:  Charphlokenapoar [ Sat May 11, 2013 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

HA! I remember the Diglett using Scratch on me! I was thinking, "Okay, what just happened? How did this armless mole just scratch me?"

I guess that makes sense, Frost, about why the average kid doesn't know about the other Pokémon, but Professor Oak didn't, either. And he's a Pokémon Professor. In America, I'm sure that florists and faunists (not a word, but you know what I mean) know at least a little of the neighboring wildlife. And I've never been to Africa, but I know they have wild lions and those cute little meerkats (if only from the Lion King). But the isolation part makes more sense to me now. I did not know they were that far away. I guess I can accept that as an excuse. And there are still creatures in our world that are being discovered, probably. I guess it makes a bit more sense.

Author:  Frost [ Sat May 11, 2013 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

The Professors don't really get a lot dialogue in the games to address those details anyway. Surely Oak now knows more than Kanto's Pokemon since he's been to Johto and Sinnoh, but it wouldn't make too much sense to include Sinnoh Pokemon in his Pokedex since they're not native and the existence of some are, as far as he knows, a rumor?

Author:  Coliflowerz [ Sun May 12, 2013 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

I think i remember hearing somewhere that in Gen 1, you could catch starters to the west, east, and south sides of pallet town. Conveniently, they were all blocked off to the player.

Author:  CrazyRazey [ Sun May 12, 2013 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

Your seriously questioning Professor Oak? He can't even remember his own grandsons name. Also every Pokedex starts of empty for you to fill out for them. Makes me question that all you need is a tree for a last name to become a Professor.

As for catching starters in games you can't (apart from Yellow). But in the anime it has shown to be possible. Ash has been able to catch a wild Squirtle, Bulbasaur, Cyndaquil, Totodile, Chikorita, Treecko, Turtwig and Snivy. Don't know if you can include Charmander, Chimchar and Tepig as they were released by trainers and only Chimchar was known to be caught as a wild.

Also no one questioned yet how in BW2 a lot of the older gen pokemon make there way over to Unova?

Author:  Frost [ Sun May 12, 2013 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

Older Pokemon were already in the eastern half of Unova in the first set of games, anyway. Which was actually really stupid and actively defeated the "Unova is a distant whole new world with only new Pokemon!" angle that they were trying to go with at the beginning of Generation V.

Author:  DragoBoy [ Mon May 13, 2013 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

Frost wrote:
Older Pokemon were already in the eastern half of Unova in the first set of games, anyway. Which was actually really stupid and actively defeated the "Unova is a distant whole new world with only new Pokemon!" angle that they were trying to go with at the beginning of Generation V.

I think that one of the rangers outside the transfer facility explained this (but I could be mistaken). Pokémon that were brought over from the other regions escaped from the facility before they were captured.

Author:  scorcher117 [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

Of all this the only thing that bothers me is WHERE THE HELL DOES THAT DAMN TRUCK GO seriously that has always bothered me :frustrated: :frustrated: :frustrated:

Author:  ocbooyah [ Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

Starters are bred in a secret location known only by professors to keep poachers at bay.
Older pokemon are introduced to new places.
Diglett has its head above ground its body might be underground.
The professors discover regions before the public.
They keep recently discovered pokemon a secret from people in fear of poachers.

Author:  Psyches [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

I often find Pokemon Logic to be a frustrating mistress, so I love this thread.

I subscribe to the theory of the Pokemon War (Lt Surge talks about it somewhere, and a few other NPC's mention fighting in wars and battles with their Pokemon), some of the Dex entries support a war in the past (I have a conspiracy theory about Legendary Involvement but that's another fanfic). After the war the Regions were at peace but cut off from communicating with each other, and slowly the borders reopened, it was only the years preceding RGBY that the Pokemon World was without conflict, and so after the Indigo League the protagonist is afforded the opportunity to explore other Regions.

This is a really bad metaphor but imagine if in a few years time we all got friendly and tourismy with the middle east because there's no more oil- I mean- no more danger, and we discover all these insects and plants and stuff that we had no idea were there, because until now no one had cataloged those deserts.

If Kanto were at war with Johto (maybe because of three birds considered deity's by the people from Kanto fighting with a bird also considered a deity by the locals of Johto, causing devastation, who knows?) then Kanto scientists wouldn't be allowed to freely study the native Johto flora and fauna. Hoenn (much like last century China) would have deliberately isolated themselves after the past cataclysmic battle between Kyogre, Groudon and Rayquaza, and it would have taken a hundred years or so for them to recover and feel safe enough to open their borders to the rest of the world. The self-isolation technique has already been observed in Hoenn at Sootoopolis City, thus giving credibility to the theory that the surviving populace of Hoenn, after the Legendary Battle of the Past, contained themselves in isolation within Sootoopolis City, only expanding out to the rest of the Region when their numbers grew too large, and eventually advancing to the state they are in during the RSE saga, where, when confronted with the same Legendary Battle, Hoenn survived without social devastation because of the protagonist.

We can easily blame Sinnoh's isolation from the other Regions on Vaulkner constantly tripping and draining the power from the Regional Network. Or a more plausible theory is that as the more advanced Region of the Japan-Group, they as a society chose to exclude themselves from the war, kind of like Sweden. Maybe Sinnoh officials were even instrumental in negotiating peace talks between Johto and Kanto after the War of the Legendary Birds. And while all this has been happening, Unova and Kalos are on entirely other continents, only accessible by plane or a very long cruise, so therefore completely believably isolated from the others by distance alone.

Could one of the great wars of the past be the one in Pokemon Conquest or seen in Lucario & The Mystery of Mew?

Wow I wrote a lot. Sorry for hijacking.

Author:  Kiga [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

I too love trying to decipher pokemon logic, but I don't quite believe the war theory. Perhaps, in the manga at some time, but not in the other two worlds.

If I recall correctly, the Pokedex is more of a diary, or a log, than a total, all inclusive encyclopedia. I mean, each regional pokedex might pre-programmed with the pokemon more commonly seen and found in the region, the starters, the rattatas and the pidgeys, and so on. The standard, every day pokemon. But the legendaries? Professor Oak may know of some rare pokemon, but does that include Mewtwo?, or Deoxys? Even the Unown?

I recall reading somewhere, Bulbapedia I believe, that the pokedex entries in each game where written by the player character themselves. This accounts for some of the more…spectacular entries, and they would provide their own picture for some the more rare pokemon, and collect their own data. Recall that the original purpose of the journey was to catch all of the pokemon? What, exactly, would the point of that be? And again, Birch's child is entirely dedicated to this in Hoenn.

Could it be possible that the pokedex, the encyclopedic version, is a rather new invention. The anime has implied that Pokeballs are a rather new innovation, and did not even exist in their current form some forty year prior to the anime. What if, starting with Fire Red and Leaf Green, the player character is recording the data that goes into future National Pokedex's? It is possible to etch out a rough timeline of the games to support this theory.

We know that Hoenn, Orre, and Kanto are all connectable in a set time stream, and we know that the events of Johto took place some three years after the events of Kanto. We know that the Red Gyarados was created from the premature evolution of a Magikarp as a result of Neo Team Rocket's experimentations, and that Lance himself visited the Lake of Rage to investigate. This same Gyarados was reported on in Sinnoh, and not only that, but Johto and Sinnoh are connectable within a set time stream, but they aren't with Kanto and Hoenn, where pokemon are required to 'migrate' to those games, but not actually send anything back.

This same concept applies to Unova, otherwise there would more than likely be fair trade involved, but instead, the pokemon 'migrate'. We know that Cynthia found the time to set up a tournament on the global platform, half a world away from Sinnoh, if you take into consideration where Sinnoh and Unova are based. More than likely, she could only do this if she was no longer the active Champion of Sinnoh. Having a vacation home in Unova is one thing. Setting up a tournament like this is another. She could have just as easily set it up in Sinnoh, extenuating circumstances not withstanding. This all suggests that the events of Sinnoh take place before the events of Unova 2.

And with Pokemon Bank, pokemon are being stored for indefinite periods of time, rather than being made to 'migrate', and can be withdrawn at a time of the Kalos trainer's choosing. This, at the very least, suggests that Kalos is level in time with Unova 2, if not some time afterward. Although, Bank seems to designed more as a convenience, rather than an actual plot device.

What I'm getting at with all of this, is, that if the Pokedex is a relatively new technology, data would need to be collected. What if a select few receive the early models, and what if the National Dex is based on the findings of the kids who received them before? This is more or less what Krys helped Oak with in the GSC manga. But if one ignores the first two generations of games, and accepts that they were rewritten for the advanced generation, then this would suggest that new pokemon aren't necessarily being discovered, as they are simply being recorded and added to a global database, and we the player are just playing the people who record them. This includes even the legendaries that kids should have no business interacting with.

In fact, in the later games, you don't even need to catch the pokemon the get the gist of its information. You just need to see it, and record it with a 'technologically updated' pokedex.

Keep in mind that I base this primarily off of the games, with some hints from the anime and manga. I don't find it, however, unreasonable to think that the manga may follow this as well. However, the anime negates the log theory, but that could suggest that the anime would take place chronologically after the games and manga, in that the data has already been collected, and Ash's pokedex is simply updated with the version relevant to the place where he plans to travel next.

Edit: …Holy crap. Big wall words. I'll have to fix this when I can keep my eyes open.
Edit2: …I tried, but I seem to be adding more to it than what I'm taking away.

Author:  CuteKirlia [ Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

Wow. A lot of these posts are super long. I'm putting my two cents in now;

On the whole, I think the seclusion theory is the best explanation. I don't know much about the first three regions, and from what I've heard, people didn't move to Joto until shortly before some time in the game. Sure, that works.
We also have Hoen, Sinnoh, and Unova. The theory of war that Psyches mentioned makes some sense. I don't know about a war between Kanto and Joto (because I know nothing about them, except that Pikachu live there), but the thing about Hoen's Kyogre/Groudon/Raquaza trama that could lead them to isolating themselves sounds reasonable, because I have seen how tremendous it looked in the TV seires, and if it happened for real like it did in the past, things could shut down for a good long while. Like recovering from earthquakes and tsunamis resulting from that event, you know?
Sinnoh's my home region. Most of the new pokemon in Sinnoh are evolutions anyway, so my theory is that most of the new evolutions somehow couldn't evolve out of Sinnoh's enviornment. Take Gallade. You don't get those in Hoen, because Hoen lacked natural deposits of Dawn stones. Whereas, perhaps Sinnoh has, uh, natural veins of Dawn stones. You know that one Episode in Hoen where Ash and buddies meet those Psychic pokemon that used to worked in the mine? Male Kirlia were exposed to the Dawn stones in a Dawn stone mine (conveinently not metioned in the game, but maybe someone uses their pokemon to mine the Underground), and voila, Gallade. Pokemon that are natural to the region, like Cherrubi and Cherrim, just never managed to circulate to other regions, by lack of means to get there. You notice in gameplay, that a lot of Sinnoh's pokemon originate in one of the first three regions anyways, like how you find the ever-present Zuubat and Geodude.
Unova strikes me as a classy, suburban sort of Region. I bet they were proud of their unique pokemon selection, which could not be found in any other region, and secluded themselves off from the other pokemon regions intentionally, to keep their wildlife pure. No obnoxious commonalities like Zuubat for them! They got the unique Woobat. But, later on, two years later, they had a greater interaction with the rest of the world. That transfer center transfered some trainer's pokemon, say a couple of Riolu and Marill. They escaped the center at one point, and began to flourish in Unova. It's comparable to intoducing the Cane Toad to Australia, and with it being just fine out in the wild, none of it's previous predators to worry about.
I never knew that Human Geography class would ever relate to pokemon, but some of the concepts applied here are rather similar to some of the thing I am learning in class...

And that's my theory. Looking back, this is worth more than two cents... maybe a dollar.

Author:  Miyo [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

A theory I like is that most, if not all, Pokémon exist in one place and that each region was chosen specifically to house certain monsters (like Wildlife reserves). Maybe as part of some giant global scientific experiment, which would explain why Professors hold so much influence in the world.

Author:  Psyches [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

CuteKirlia wrote:
Wow. A lot of these posts are super long. I'm putting my two cents in now;

. It's comparable to intoducing the Cane Toad to Australia, and with it being just fine out in the wild, none of it's previous predators to worry about.
I never knew that Human Geography class would ever relate to pokemon, but some of the concepts applied here are rather similar to some of the thing I am learning in class...

And that's my theory. Looking back, this is worth more than two cents... maybe a dollar.

Except that Cane Toads in Australia are a rancid pest that we are constantly cullin. Every sunset the kids who were allowed out would be chasing them around the parks and streets with metal rakes and baseball bats... I could never do that to a Bulbasaur...

Author:  CuteKirlia [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

Neither could I! I couldn't do it to toads either, it's too bad they are "pests". I'm just comparing environmental factors here. No old predators + plenty of food + less competition = more of that animal/pokemon.

Author:  Psyches [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

Yeah, I agree with your way of thinking CuteKirlia, especially regarding dawn stones, etc. this all certainly makes fr exciting speculation.

Typed poorly on my iPhone

Author:  Matthew2587 [ Sun May 17, 2015 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

New Pokemon are discovered by professors.

Author:  addseo1115 [ Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Discovery of new Pokémon

Hello, I am a newbie.
I have enjoyed with your posts.
Thanks for the welcome.

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