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 Nintendo's Gradual Decline of Imagination.... 
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I personally think Arceus is one of the most original Pokémon out there and many people say it's lame and whatnot. Have we had a Pokémon like Arceus before? And don't come saying Mew should be the official God of all Pokémon because it contains all monsters' DNA (or whatever), because that's nothing to do with being a God: that could be easily interpreted as an ancestral feature, the first Pokémon that appeared or anything that hasn't to do with divinity. Being a God and having every creature's DNA can be related subjects (after all, God made us after his own image and stuff), but they aren't necessarily.



I think Arceus is lame because I always thought that all legendary pokemon were godly in a way. Mew had the whole DNA thing, the legendary birds controlled the weather, Celebii can travel through time, ect. They all seemed like gods to me. But you're right: we haven't seen a pokemon like Arceus before and I will admit that I'm curious to see what kind of powers it has.

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Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:07 am
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I see. I think quite the contrary, actually, I never saw any legendary as a God. I've always thought of them as, well, what their title implies: legendary, extremely rare creatures, that usually have unique powers and abilities that are greater than ordinary Pokémon's. It's not much to do with their base stats or movepool, really, but mostly their background info.

I kind of go with what's said on their Pokédex and side-story. For instance, I don't particulary see Mewtwo as a God because his characteristics and history don't fit that category. Even though he is one of a kind and has way above average stats, I can't really state him as divinity, mostly because he doesn't have any god-like abilities and his background says he was created by humans to serve as a genetic experiment.

I also don't qualify other more "natural" legendary Pokémon as Gods because, even though they can manipulate nature or do other impressive things, so can other monsters (in a lower scale, of course) and, in the end, it doesn't sound like they are higher entities, but powerful, sub-products of environment and other real, or metaphysical forces. Sometimes they don't even control their surroundings, but their own, internal capacities change what's around them (for example, Articuno doesn't "create" snow out of nothing; the snow that comes after his flight is created by the flap of his wings, that are so cold that chill the air; it's mainly a fantastic feature, not exactly a God's play). The birds, for example, including both Ho-Oh and Lugia; to me, technically suit better as "titans" than "Gods". Same goes for the dogs and the Regis.

I have my doubts regarding the mini-beasts that are Mew and company, because their powers aren't exactly "natural", but aren't enough impressive to be godly. Well, okay, so time-travelling and wish-granting are kind of god-like, but other factors sort of put them in a lower rank, in my opinion, such as their design and, well, events that happened to them (such as Celebi being caught and "tamed"; it's just not God-like). To me, they aren't exactly Gods or Titans, but more like... I don't know, just, rarities that occasionaly appear to humans? Like, spirits, or maybe an entity of their own kind, like Genie, from Aladdin?

It kind of gets confusing with the Legends of Hoenn, though. Kyogre is fine for me as a Titan because it expanded the sea, it didn't create it; Groudon, however, according to mythology, did raise lands and is also able to expand the continents, but I interprete that as firstly creating land in order to expand existing continents. If they were infact the creators of the very first lands and seas, than I have to admit they are somehow higher than the birds, dogs and Regis. More like divine titans, I say. These two are a bit complicated, but they sound more like mythical titans than real Gods.

Rayquaza is purely a rarity. Its powers are massive, but not exactly impressive. It can destroy a meteor (Mystery Dungeon), but that's not "wow" like time-traveling or making volcanoes erupt. He's powerful, but not that incredible. Latios and Latias to me are solely legendaries because they are so different and bear some high stats. Their powers are nothing compared to other legendary beasts, even though they're kinda cool. As for Deoxys, it's neither a God or Titan, but a powerful... alien thing.

And then comes the fourth generation with all it's massive mightyness of legendaries. Fortunately, most aren't as impressive as they seem (even though they're still omg stats, but then again, this is about their powers, not their in-game, battle prowess).

As the Pokédex states, Dialga and Palkia are ancient deities, which is the rank obtained that says someone is a true, real God. To me, though, they're more like demi-gods, or things of the kind. Time began to flow when Dialga was born, which leads to two different interpretations: either it created time or time already existed, but it was just stopped (but then again, does time exist if it doesn't flow? Uh...). Or, maybe, Dialga was born as a product of Time and made it flow (giving the beast the power to control it). Even though Palkia didn't "create" space, it can still distort it, so I'll assume it's as powerful as Dialga (and they are counterparts, after all). So these two can pretty much be smaller divinities to me; yet, they're in higher places than the other legendaries of previous generations, mostly because their powers surpass (and can pretty much overcome and "nullify") their title-mates; for example, even though they're both related to time, Dialga can easily overthrow Celebi because the latter can only control it's own association with time (traveling), but it can't control Time itself, unlike the Dragon.

Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf relate to humans, so we can assume their origins are parallel to people's (the dex says their emergence gave humans those particular traits). It's more like heavy "magical" influence than divine power: take that away and they aren't really incredible. Mesprit taught humans emotions, so I'll define it as a wise, ancient mentor, and Azelf keeps the world in balance (seing as it is the being of willpower, maybe humanity will fall into a dismotive disgrace if it looses control?). Azelf is a little more complicated, but all in all they are just like the other mini-things.

There's nothing special about Heatran, Regigigas (fits better as a character of a myth), Cresselia, Phione, Manaphy, Shaymin or Darkrai. Their abilities are interesting, but not amazing. Giratina looks slightly more impressive, but it's in no way a God.

Then comes Arceus. It is lots of steps ahead of Dialga and Palkia (the only true Gods so far), as it was born before Universe (wtf?) and shaped it. If Dialga and Palkia are Gods, then Arceus is above that (or Arceus is a God and the other two are demi-gods). Honestly, creating the Universe? What came before the Universe, the empty? The nothing? Right now I can't exactly think of something that can surpass or go farther than an entity that came before the endless (or does the Universe have an end? Well, that doesn't really come to discussion... or does it?).

Well, after <i>another</i> tl;dr post (someone please stop me), I come to the conclusion that yes, Arceus is original and the actual true God of the Pokéverse. Hooray for a conclusion I had already concluded before. x(

There should be a word-limit for posts. I hope I don't lead people to a change in the topic. :/ At least it was... fun.

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Last edited by Galar on Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:12 am
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personaly from the last 2 pages i have read i think pokemon should get soething new for the baby pokemon. after the contest future was shown to in RSE we said "its a new thing,lets try it" But really in the next game for pokemon they should have option mode. For example, At the start of the game you pick your gender then pick if you want to do contests or like the real game. In contest mode you could catch pokemon(like baby pokemon) then go to a contest. Then at the contest you have people from the Cartoon/anime like may or drew. thats my opinion on "Baby Pokemon"


P.S. Everyone, Who Cares About new pokemon.




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Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:31 pm
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Jigglypuff wrote:
Groudon King wrote:
nothing is original


Yep. The first telescope wasn't original. The first automobile was a total ripoff. The Wright Brothers and their plane; been done 10,000 times before. Yep.


Wow.... to be quoted by Jigglypuff... :shock: (say focused....)

Well maybe saying that is a bit too much, but the point I am trying to make is how people put down the creativity of Nintendo by using the world, 'original', is not very effective. To put it, hopefully better, is that every idea has been used. I mean can anyone now make up something that is a pokemon, invention, so on that has not been used in anyway..... the answer is no.... Other than the telescope I do know a way how the other two things are unoriginal, the automobile is the horse and buggy with the horse replaced by an engine, and the Brothers plane the design taken from a bird.

That is way that why I feel that people's use of the word 'original' and 'unoriginal' is a weak way to put it down. I believe that the makers of Pokemon have put a fair amount of effert to make each one of them.

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Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:04 pm
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Groudon King wrote:
I believe that the makers of Pokemon have put a fair amount of effert to make each one of them.


Especially {luvdisc} . I honestly doubt it took them more than an hour to come up with that.


Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:42 pm
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pelligargetic wrote:
Groudon King wrote:
I believe that the makers of Pokemon have put a fair amount of effert to make each one of them.


Especially {luvdisc} . I honestly doubt it took them more than an hour to come up with that.


i can draw a heart with eyes in less than five minutes

at least there wasnt anotehr electric mouse in pearl even better we got a squerril yay (i miss roll emote pretend its here)


Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:57 pm
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bluestrike wrote:
I disagree, I mean, looking at the Pokemon introduced in the 3rd generation, how many of them, in their final evolution, would you actually consider having in your final team?

I'll have every Pokemon in my final team because I'll have many final teams. Every Pokemon I can get will be in a team and if they're weak, there will be strong Pokemon on that team too - it'll be made up of both.

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BRING BACK GSC!!! FORGET THE RSE BULL!!!
FORGET RSE FOREVER REMEMBER FR/LG!!!

Get over it. If you want that game, get it out and start a new game or continue with your old one.

shieldon_rulz wrote:
i think the pokemon like others(plusle,starly) show how in real life there's diferent breeds of animals. i mean, come on look at dogs, there a zillion different breeds of 'em, each looking slightly different, and we don't complain. and with the weird evo's they show how sometimes in the wild animals choose power over looks. look at baboons, they look pretty stupid but they've got more chance of surviving than a little aye-aye. as for nosepass, it's supposed to show that everything in the world isn't natural. (sorry if i don't make sense.)

I agree with this. If you're going to compare Pokemon to 'real animals' then think about the many breeds there are of each animal.
As for myself, I agree with the people who said play Animal Crossing if you want animals. Or either get a pet or play with your own pet/s instead of complaining about fictional creations.
I doubt anyone here could come up with anything better than Gamefreak does.
Personally, I love all my Pokemon including the ones I don't have even if they look unpleasant or have a strange name.
From when I first saw it, I thought that Pikachu was an annoying little s**t but you're forgetting the ultimate goal - be the best and catch 'em all! Yeah...:|. That's my Pokemon aim anyway.
I enjoy each of the games so far and love all the Pokemon even if they do annoy me (for whatever reason).

I definitely don't think they've lost their creativity.

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Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:44 am
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having just gotten Pearl this month, i'm back into pokemon for the first time in years, and while i find that there are a number of very pretty and cute new ones, the majority of pokes in the recent games have been either rather lame remakes of old ones, or too weird and out there for my tastes, and even my kids don't like them. I mean, when kids formerly pokemon crazed are turned off by the new creepies (*their* name for many of the new ones!) thats a good indication that Nintendo has to look for new blood in their design department {roserade} {pachirisu} {empoleon}

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Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:01 pm
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I am not one of the people on the bandwagon for accusing Pokémon games of being all the same. I think they add a significant amount of new gameplay and concepts with each set of games.

The only thing I do think needs a dose of creativity is the Pokémon themselves. The first 251 were, for the most part, brilliant. The next 242, however, were not quite so good. They do one of a few lazy things to make a Pokémon. They simply take a normal animal, change it up slightly or give it an element, like Zigzagoon, they evolve/pre-evolve existing Pokémon, like Magby, copy the concept for an old Pokémon, like Dustox, or they just make up a God only knows what that is too stupid to be favored and too weak to be used, like Nosepass. I think this is OK from time to time if that Pokémon has a certain attractiveness to it, like Pachirisu's unbelievable cuteness, but it's not often they do that.

This isn't to say that they don't make good Pokémon anymore, of course. Spend five minutes in a furry art gallery and tell me Lucario isn't well received, or just look at the cuteness that is Piplup and call the new Pokémon ugly. At the same time, they haven't been perfect in the past, either. Just look at Tangela.

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Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:55 pm
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Growlix wrote:
The first 251 were, for the most part, brilliant. The next 242, however, were not quite so good. They do one of a few lazy things to make a Pokémon. They simply take a normal animal, change it up slightly or give it an element, like Zigzagoon, they evolve/pre-evolve existing Pokémon, like Magby, copy the concept for an old Pokémon, like Dustox, or they just make up a God only knows what that is too stupid to be favored and too weak to be used, like Nosepass.

But that is what Pokemon always has been! Pikachu used to be the main one, the one everybody talked about, argh, and it's like a bloody electric mouse. If anything, Nosepass is more creative because...what the heck is it? Many of the others, especially the originals, are stemmed from other things. Overall, a lot of Pokemon are. Our imaginations must create ideas from something. I love all Pokemon, 'old and new'.

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Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:58 pm
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oh, i am hardly going to be one to say that the old games were perfect! far from it...but then, is any game, book or whatever going to totally live up to one's expectaions? there are great creatures in all the games, and many that i think could be better done. ut that is all a matter of personal taste.

what i would really love to see would be remakes of games like poke yellow, utilising the new tech made available with the DS. it was nice to see the little park in pearl, but its too bad that they didn't include more creatures, or do as in yellow, and you get to have your main one (or better, your choice!) follow you. as someone who doesn't like the battling, and plays because i love the animals, yellow remains my favourte, and love the new options in pearl!

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Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:01 pm
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CharmedJoey wrote:
Growlix wrote:
The first 251 were, for the most part, brilliant. The next 242, however, were not quite so good. They do one of a few lazy things to make a Pokémon. They simply take a normal animal, change it up slightly or give it an element, like Zigzagoon, they evolve/pre-evolve existing Pokémon, like Magby, copy the concept for an old Pokémon, like Dustox, or they just make up a God only knows what that is too stupid to be favored and too weak to be used, like Nosepass.

But that is what Pokemon always has been! Pikachu used to be the main one, the one everybody talked about, argh, and it's like a bloody electric mouse. If anything, Nosepass is more creative because...what the heck is it? Many of the others, especially the originals, are stemmed from other things. Overall, a lot of Pokemon are. Our imaginations must create ideas from something. I love all Pokemon, 'old and new'.
But Pikachu is cute, and due to being a main character in the anime, has a lot of personality and information known about it. Nosepass is more unique, yes, but not in a good way. If everything was absurd in the Pokémon world, it would spoil the fun of seeing a unique Pokémon, but that's no excuse to make the more normal Pokémon boring.

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Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:17 pm
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Well we all know Nintendo has done a good job so far...weaker Pokemon got evolutions so that the number of strong Pokemon increased. The pre-evolutions of Mr Mime, Chansey etc. are there so that the game has more elements of "Cute" to balance out the "Cool". Without these, the game won't attract young players anymore. Children like to look out for less intimidating creatures you know. Besides, the amount of inspiration taken from real life animals is running dry...can you name an Animal that any Pokemon hasn't been based on yet? It's not that Nintendo is running out of Imagination...the number of animals left is simply too little...unlike Real Life Animals, most Pokemon don't have different Species for their particular group. :wink:


Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:54 am
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Well they can always just make up animal-esque creatures, after all. For example, what the heck are Clefairy and the three legendary whatevers from GSC supposed to be? But they still look like pseudonatural organic creatures, do they not?

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Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:22 pm
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That's why it's so hard. It ain't easy to create a creature out of thin air. Most imaginary creatures are created by merging animals are at least based on animals. Dragons and Griffins for example, they are created by the merging of different animals. They Phoenixes are simply legendary creatures based on birds. And not all creatures look good when merged or edited. That's why as these sources get depleted, Nintendo will have trouble thinking of creatures that look nice. Can you draw something cute that doesn't resemble ANY animal? Possible but HARD. And Nintendo will need alot more than just 1. :)


Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:53 am
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i loved the humour of the nosepass! that was hysterical-i hadn't seen it till i was playing pearl for the first time, and got the biggest laugh from it and the evolved form of it-whoever thought that one up must have had a bad cold and turned that into a brilliant iidea. i don't have either one yet,-gotta see if i can trade for one- but that is just so funny that i want one around, even though i don't know if i'll use him or not.

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Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:33 pm
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yes i know {nosepass} is going a little too far... and the gave him an EVOLVE FORM {probopass} !!! i dont really like the "everyone gets an evolve form" idea that they had for PD... but im in denile... i guess we'll have to deal with it...


Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:20 pm
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I diddnt like FR/LG as much as everyone else here did. I mean one more romp around Kanto is nice but everything is too well balanced. I mean i thought it was pretty awesome to be able to catch a lvl 32 Haunter in the Pkmn tower, or lvl 40 Slowbro in the Seafoam caves or lv 38 Muk/Grimer in the Pkmn mansion, those things would take you by surprise and if you caught them you could start using them in yr teams right away, you wouldnt need to level them 10 levels just to get them on the same footing with yr other pkmn. But you cant do that anymore on FR/LG. Everythings at the exact same low levels.

I think the broken-ness of RBY was part of what made them so much fun.

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