Pillage just won't learn will he :roll:

Hyper Beam is not as bad as people make out, in competitive battling it can make your Porygon go out with a serious bang and in-game it can destroy pretty much anything, especially seeing as how you can immediately switch out if it KO's the opponent

Oh Pillage you are an idiot. Your posts are spam. Hyper Beam isn't as bas as everyone makes it out to be. It can be useful at some points but over all it's sort of crap seeing as you have to recharge and then get taken possibly next turn.

That, or they hate you for acting like an elitist prick who thinks he owns the place.

Hyper Beam can have its uses on Porygon-Z, as a finisher move when you have little HP left and will die anyway, much like Explosion on Metagross. Personally, I don't use Hyper Beam on my Porygon-Z, but I still recognize it as having potential use.

I am not acting like an Elitist.

You people need to get off his back or this is going to get locked (again? I wasn't here)....

Tri attack is more fun, there is the (small) chance of a status problem and more of a chance for a critical hit with two hits then one. Hyper beam does have its uses for what Eldred said but are you honestly going to put both tri attack and hyper beam on one P-Z? I don't think so.

P.S. 350th post, YAY!

Isnt there a powder that makes it so you dont have to recharge one turn. I actually think its called Energy Powder but I am too lazy to look into it.

yeah theres something like that i forgot what its called but it only works one time. and it works for moves like solar beam and sky attack which charge first.

Yes, it's energy powder.

Back on topic though.

HB on a focus band porygon-z can be quite deadly with this EV layout:

SP atk : 255
Speed : 255

HB, on the recharge time FB will save you, Hyper Potion, HB, and Focus Band will save you. JUst be loaded on Hyper Potions though.

You can't use Hyper Potions in Wifi Battling.

True... Crud.. I don't think their is a hold item that fully restores health... I only use it when I'm battling my friends... And if there was that type of hold item that restored health fully, Porygon-Z would only last two HBs... And the point is to sweep there whole team with hyper beam. Actually.... Just baton pass a few def. and sp def. raises and change the hold Item to leftovers. Or just use energy powder so it can keep sweeping. I don't know. Both would work well.

There isn't an item that restores full health, but there is an item (focus sash I think) that prevents a OHKO

But that only prevents a KO for one turn. I'd rather Baton Pass a Defense Curl from Shedinja, and have energy powder and sweep.

Or you could swith out 2 a diff poke...

Adaptability has no affect on the base power. Neither does stab, they affect the damage later in the damage calculation in an equation very similar to if not exactly the same as the one provided by cuddles. Though I'm pretty sure the random number isn't That wide though. it's random 85-100 according to serebii. This would mean the damage calculation in the game that was made for would be different from the older damage formulas, so it could be out of date.

However, it's very very clearly not simple addition and subtraction. Often reflected during in game damage.

And the 'hindering' is something well known, the affect on the stat is fairly well known. So not much arguing to be down there. Base power, since it is Immediately multiplied by your attack (and your level divided by 100) you can look at base power as a percentage of your attack stat, I find that useful. If we take the doubling power aspect of Explosion into consideration that's 500% of your regular attack stat going against blissey.

You've never used hyper beam on me in a way that didn't totally screw the rest of your team. The extra turn is dangerous, the amount of damage isn't really worth limiting the moveset so much in most people's opinion since that pokemon would see so much battle time on average. It's an endgame move on a mid game pokemon. Just less useful.

I mean it'd be awesome if you could switch out, like super OU awesome, but the key to getting an advantage is having successful moves and limiting your opponent's number of successful moves, giving them a chance to do whatever they like is just bad strategy early-mid game.

((150 + STAB with Adaptibility)( = 300 + 405(PZ's SP atk) = 505)) 505 - Foe's Sp def
If critical (505*1.5) 755.5, Round up to 756 - Foe's Sp def
If Super effective 505*2=1010, or 505*4=2020 - Foe's Sp def
If Critical and Super Effective, 756*2=14112, or 756*4 = 3002 - Foe's Sp Def

Highest Damage could be 3002 minus the foe's special def.

That entire explanation was a waste of my life. You can't just take a good pokemon like Porygon-Z, give it one exclusive, excessively limited role and hope for the best. You need to give it moves that will prove versatile roles and will not only benefit the pokemon's well-being, but the team as a whole.

CONCERNING BRUTE POWER:

I don't see why you don't seem to think this is enough:

Tri-Attack: Base power: 80

80(1.5) = STAB, 120.
120(1.3) = Life Orb, 156.
156(1.5) = Adaptability, 234.

Besides, 234 x 2 (two turns) = 468. 439 x 1 (one turn because of recharge) = well, 439. Tri Attack also has chance of freeze, paralysis, or burn, whereas Hyper Beam is just a clumsy n00b move. Fact is you'll be doing more damage in two turns (if you even have to use it twice, which you probably won't unless you're an idiot and using P-Z against Blissey or something) and have a chance of status-ifying your foes.

I think you're just attracted to the sheer power of Hyper Beam, but honestly, stop telling people to use crappy moves.

CONCERNING LIMITATIONS:

Yes, Classick, we all know your P-Z has Hyper Beam and is the "finisher" for your team. You take it in and clean up whatever pokemon your opponent has left when you're about to win.

In essence, however, that means you really only have 5 pokemon on your team instead of 6 because you've bound P-Z to a crappy move. Yes, you can still send it in and use its other special moves to attack your foe; but by putting Hyper Beam on P-Z, you have just WASTED Adaptability and your only STAB on a crappy, overly-specialized move.

Fact is you won't need all that extra power to finish off a foe unless, again, you're up against Blissey or some other special wall. (and if that's the case, why are you sending out a special sweeper?) A move with 234 power (as with Tri Attack) and the usual, Modest P-Z (405 special attack) is far more than enough to get the job done. If Tri Attack can do the same thing just as well, and probably more effectively, then what's the point of crippling your P-Z's abilities with one of the most useless moves in the game?

CONCERNING HYPER BEAM'S GENERAL SUCKINESS:

Then there's the fact that 90 accuracy, though decent, is not as good as Tri Attack's 100. They're close, but as we all know, there are times Aqua Tail/Sky Uppercut misses, and sometimes it's at the worst possible time. That in conjunction with the rest of this post makes the better choice painfully obvious.

There are numerous other reasons why Hyper Beam, as well as the other corresponding moves (Blast Burn, Hydro Cannon, Frenzy Plant) fail at life. If you somehow still need more convincing, Smogon did a pretty good job at pointing out how many failures are posed by those moves. Click hee-uh.

---EDIT---

And for those who mentioned the powder that makes it so you don't have to "recharge"--obviously your priorities are distorted. Why waste a perfectly good item slot for an item you can use ONCE, when you could have Lefties, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, etc.?

surely, hyper beam (and other normal-type moves) hit for supereffective



first off, adaptability replaces the multiplier of STAB, so (going by ur logic) it would be:

80(2[adaptability doubles power])(1.3[life orb]) = 208 <== still a lot, but just fixing it up.

also, STAB/adaptability doesnt effect base power, as previously mentioned, so that isnt enough proof.

dont get me wrong, i hate hyper beam on anything as well

Yes, I know how the damage formula works, I've used it a million times before. It's just in technicality, it's common for battlers to multiply STAB base powers by 1.5, even though it's actually the amount of damage that is increased, not the move's power.

Also didn't know Adaptability was x2, so thanks for that info.

And if you're comparing 208 to Hyper Beam, you'd need to make the same changes to that as well:

150(2)(1.3) = 390

And obviously since we're comparing 2 turns of Tri Attack to 1 turn or Hyper Beam, Tri Attack still comes out on top.

Sorry for the math phale. :)

In any event, STAB is still sufficient proof, it's just harder to make comparisons with STAB (unless you factor x1.5 into STAB moves like most battlers do as a commonality) since it all depends on your attack power, opponent's defense, etc. STAB is a factor for both of those moves, so it applies to both, and in that sense, it still deserves consideration.