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 Hydro Pump of Surf 

Hydro Power or Weaker Surf Power
Poll ended at Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:41 pm
Hydro Pump 12%  12%  [ 2 ]
Surf 88%  88%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 17

 Hydro Pump of Surf 
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Dragon Tamer
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:55 am
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What do u prefer honestly to tell u the truth I dont think Hydro Pump is all that bad becuase moves like Mega Horn, Cross Chop, Mega Punch, Blaze Kick, Fire Blast and Mega Kick also have poor accuracy but high Attack Power and everyone uses them but for some odd reason people always pick Surf over Hydro Pump even though Hydro Pump is clearly better so what about the Accuracy and PP being lower its definetly got less PP becuase its a better move right? Who agress with me plus if the Pokemon using Hydro Pump is faster than the Pokemon taking the damage then thats fine its most likely going to hit its mark successfully I've also seen people on these message Boards talking about Iron Tail as some sort of a suggested moveset and Iron Tail is even worse than Hydro Pump its got less accuracy and its weaker so will someone tell me why Hydro Pump is left out? Also look at it this way I was battling Bruno of the Elite Four right and I used surf with my {kyogre} on his {steelix} it managed to survive it with its health meter at the red and then it owned me with its Earthquake aaargh so I restarted and faced him again only this time I used my {lapras} and its Hydro Pump took out each of his Pokemon 1 by 1 talk about power huh? by the way my {lapras} was level 70 and {kyogre} was 71 for those of u that think Hydro Pump is a bad move maybe this story will straiten it out for u thank you and have a good day also remember to use Hydro Pump


Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:41 pm
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Dragon Tamer
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I say Surf over Hydro Pump cause I rather hit and do some damage then miss or hit and do alot. But if you have a pokemon with a realy high defense and special defence then use it. I also like surf more because i use it but i replaced hydro pump with Hydro Cannon....


Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:53 pm
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Lite Four
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I serously don't mind the lack of accuracy, but PP is a rather important consideration, so I still think Surf is better.

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Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:30 am
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Pokemon Ranger
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Even though all these moves you mensioned (Blaze Kick, Megahorn) are pretty inaccurate, they have higher PP than Hydro Pump.

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Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:43 am
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Dragon Tamer
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steinerrecliner wrote:
Even though all these moves you mensioned (Blaze Kick, Megahorn) are pretty inaccurate, they have higher PP than Hydro Pump.


so thats why I use PP up I always use PP ups on my lower PP moves or PP Max


Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:00 am
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Surf has 5x the PP and perfect Accuracy. Plus you'll do the same amount of damage as 5 Hydro Pumps in 7 Surfs...so in the end Surf is actually over 3x more powerful.

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Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:31 am
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Surf only has 3x the PP (Surf= 15PP; H. Pump= 5PP)

Anyway...let's do the math...

Surf: 15PPx95BD= 1,425
H. Pump: 5PP=120BD= 600

1425 divided by 600.....

Surf will do about 237.5% damage, if H. Pump's damage was equal to 100%.

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Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:52 am
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Pokemon Master
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Looking at the base damage for a moment, let's say you attack your opponent ten times with hydro pump (you've used a PP max and they're a grass-type with recover :P). Since its accuracy is only 80%, statistically speaking you'd hit them roughly 8 times out of ten, so you'd only actually be hitting them with 80% of the total base power you used in all ten attacks, so the average power for one such attack is as such:

Average power for hydro pump: 120(base power)*0.80(accuracy)= 96

And here's the same thing for surf:

Average power for surf: 95*1.00=95

Not much of a difference in the long run, eh? And since surf has three times the PP, it will average out to be more useful.

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Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:09 am
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Pokemon Master
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Surf is much better than Hydro Pump, and if Hydro Pump misses for 1 turn and hits the next turn, you'll only do 60 damage each turn.
(And trust me Hydro Pump misses very often).

While Surf hits 95 damage each turn.

So would you rather have 20% chance of Hydro Pump missing and doing 120 damage in 2 turns (That's if it hits in one of the turns), or 190 guaranteed damage in 2 turns with Surf?

Accuracy also is more important than Power Points in my opinion and Surf beats Hydro Pump with both.

Also your Example doesn't make sense with Lapras KOing Steelix and Kyogre not, Kyogre has a Max Special Attack of 438, Lapras has a max special attack of 295, Kyogre's Special Attack is way higher than Lapras, so it'd be able to KO Steelix alot easier than Lapras (Unless Lapras got a Critical Hit and Kyogre didn't).

How could Lapras KO Steelix without getting a Critcal Hit, if Kyogre couldn't knock it out first?

Also if Hydro Pump misses, Steelix gets acouple of Free Moves to use on you.
So Lapras may faint and do 0 damage on Steelix.

I also remember a battle with my Cousin awhile ago (It probably was a little different then this, since Lugia swept Charizard, Venusaur and a couple others.),

He had a Blastoise with Bubblebeam (65 D 100 A), Hydro Pump (120 D 80 A), Ice Punch (75 D 100 A) and Blizzard (120 D 75 A) (A very Bad moveset)

My Raichu had, Surf (95 D 100 A), Thunderbolt (95 D 100 A), Swagger (90 A) and Thunder Wave (75 A) for a moveset.

I'll try to type it like a Netbattle (It was in Stadium 2),

Code:
1P sent out Raichu! (Lv. 100 M)
2P sent out Blastoise! (Lv. 100 M)

Turn #1

Raichu used Thunder Wave!
Blastoise is paralyzed!
Blastoise used Hydro Pump! (Hits)

End of Turn #1.
Blastoise 100% Health
Raichu 45% Health

Turn #2
Raichu used Swagger! (Missed)
Blastoise used Hydro Pump! (Missed)

End of Turn #2

Raichu 45% Health
Blastoise 100% Health

Turn #3

Raichu used Thunderbolt! (Hits)
Blastoise used Hydro Pump! (Missed Again)

End of Turn #3

Raichu 45% Health
Blastoise 60% Health

Turn #4
Raichu used Thunderbolt! (Hits)
Blastoise is Paralyzed!, it can't move!

End of turn #4
Raichu 45% Health
Blastoise 15% Health

Turn #5
Raichu Used Thunderbolt! (Hits)
Blastoise fainted!


Even though the last turn it was paralyzed, it would have been able to KO Raichu with Surf on the Third turn if it used Surf 3 times.

This proves on how Hydro Pump can make you lose a battle, and why Surf is used.

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Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:03 am
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Pokemon Ranger
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Surf definatly. It's much more reliable than Hydro Pump.


Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:47 am
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Dragon Tamer
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Fine thanks for your help everyone I guess I was wrong I'll teach surf instead


Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:13 pm
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Pokemon Master
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As an added bonus surf has a practical usage out of battle! Go surf!

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Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:23 pm
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Pokemon Ranger
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5506 wrote:
What do u prefer honestly to tell u the truth I dont think Hydro Pump is all that bad becuase moves like Mega Horn, Cross Chop, Mega Punch, Blaze Kick, Fire Blast and Mega Kick also have poor accuracy but high Attack Power and everyone uses them but for some odd reason people always pick Surf over Hydro Pump even though Hydro Pump is clearly better so what about the Accuracy and PP being lower its definetly got less PP becuase its a better move right? Who agress with me plus if the Pokemon using Hydro Pump is faster than the Pokemon taking the damage then thats fine its most likely going to hit its mark successfully I've also seen people on these message Boards talking about Iron Tail as some sort of a suggested moveset and Iron Tail is even worse than Hydro Pump its got less accuracy and its weaker so will someone tell me why Hydro Pump is left out? Also look at it this way I was battling Bruno of the Elite Four right and I used surf with my {kyogre} on his {steelix} it managed to survive it with its health meter at the red and then it owned me with its Earthquake aaargh so I restarted and faced him again only this time I used my {lapras} and its Hydro Pump took out each of his Pokemon 1 by 1 talk about power huh? by the way my {lapras} was level 70 and {kyogre} was 71 for those of u that think Hydro Pump is a bad move maybe this story will straiten it out for u thank you and have a good day also remember to use Hydro Pump

Wow, can someone say "run-on sentence"?

I use Surf. Better PP, better accuracy makes all the difference when deciding whether a move is reliable or not. Same reason why Thunder, Zap Cannon, Blizzard, and all the OKHO moves aren't used.

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Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:18 pm
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Yes... run-on sentence.

:shock: ... :D I said it.

Back on topic... I'd go for Surf all the way. Simple. More PP, Better accuracy, an HM move worth using :roll: , and because it hits both enemies in a 2 on 2.

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Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:23 pm
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Pokemon Ranger
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The 2 on 2 bit is a worthy consideration, but bear in mind that the damage is halved for an attack that hits both.

I choose Surf. Looks nicer too.

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Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:31 am
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For some reason I always think that Surf has 25 PP.

Even so, it's still a big advantage.

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Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:01 am
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Dragon Tamer
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papersun wrote:
5506 wrote:
What do u prefer honestly to tell u the truth I dont think Hydro Pump is all that bad becuase moves like Mega Horn, Cross Chop, Mega Punch, Blaze Kick, Fire Blast and Mega Kick also have poor accuracy but high Attack Power and everyone uses them but for some odd reason people always pick Surf over Hydro Pump even though Hydro Pump is clearly better so what about the Accuracy and PP being lower its definetly got less PP becuase its a better move right? Who agress with me plus if the Pokemon using Hydro Pump is faster than the Pokemon taking the damage then thats fine its most likely going to hit its mark successfully I've also seen people on these message Boards talking about Iron Tail as some sort of a suggested moveset and Iron Tail is even worse than Hydro Pump its got less accuracy and its weaker so will someone tell me why Hydro Pump is left out? Also look at it this way I was battling Bruno of the Elite Four right and I used surf with my {kyogre} on his {steelix} it managed to survive it with its health meter at the red and then it owned me with its Earthquake aaargh so I restarted and faced him again only this time I used my {lapras} and its Hydro Pump took out each of his Pokemon 1 by 1 talk about power huh? by the way my {lapras} was level 70 and {kyogre} was 71 for those of u that think Hydro Pump is a bad move maybe this story will straiten it out for u thank you and have a good day also remember to use Hydro Pump

Wow, can someone say "run-on sentence"?

I use Surf. Better PP, better accuracy makes all the difference when deciding whether a move is reliable or not. Same reason why Thunder, Zap Cannon, Blizzard, and all the OKHO moves aren't used.


tiger10x wrote:
Yes... run-on sentence.

:shock: ... :D I said it.

Back on topic... I'd go for Surf all the way. Simple. More PP, Better accuracy, an HM move worth using :roll: , and because it hits both enemies in a 2 on 2.


Ok I'm sorry so I have run on Sentences big deal so sue me are u guys like the Sentence Police or what? You sound just like my Teacher

P.S. Im in Grade 10 tho and u know what I have lack of Punctuation and I dont really care to


Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:58 am
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Pokemon Ranger
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You're in grade ten and you still have run on sentances? Tisk tisk.

Anyway, Let's look at the pros and cons of surf, shall we?

Pros
    Excellent accuracy
    Plenty of PP
    Extra use outside of battle
    If there's a set that needs a water move it's surf
    Reusable


Cons
    None


...

Let's look at Hydro Pump, shall we?

Pros
    High power


Cons
    Low Accuracy
    Horribble PP
    Not a TM/HM so you could find more of it


My work here is done.


Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:23 pm
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I think that we are 5506's Teachers...'cause we're schooling him LOL!

Water Pokemon Master wrote:
You're in grade ten and you still have run on sentances? Tisk tisk.


Tsk Tsk Indeed.

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Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:16 pm
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Don't hate me, but I had to vote for Hydro Pump because I play 2vs2 battles constantly, & Surf at 2/3 strength hitting both just doesn't give the power to eliminate any major threats to your team, nothing is worse than seeing an attack do inadequette damage. So I prefer Hydro Pump, even with a 20% chance to miss it is sometimes worth the risk.

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Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:53 pm
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Pokemon Ranger
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Surf is less powerful but more likely to hit and (in double-battles) it hits both enemies. Hydro Pump isn't as accurate, but will leave the foe stuck against the wall with intensity!

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Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:33 am
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