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 Evaluation of natures 
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Bug Catcher
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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:19 am
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Location: Brighton, UK
As a latterday undergraduate mathematician, stats geek and borderline obsessive-compulsive I derive a curious satisfaction from allocating each of my Pokemon a single ranking value with which I can determine his/her comparative aptitude.

To this end I have created a rather simplistic formula that takes an average of the Pokemon's DVs (or an educated guess at those DVs...if I know that the DV is between 18 and 20 I'll use 19) and multiplies these by a weighting value (I'll call them WVs) between 1 and 5 depending on the usefulness of that statistic to that Pokemon (i.e. a Starly who has very little use for Special Attack would have a SA weighting of 1 and an Attack weighting of 5). The multiples for each statistic are summed and the total is divided by the sum of the weighting values.

For example:

Our Starly (perhaps called COLIN, I don't know):

HP: DV 10 - WV 3 - WV*DV = 30
Atk: DV 30 - WV 5 - WV*DV = 150
Def: DV 10 - WV 2 - WV*DV = 20
SA: DV 10 - WV 1 - WV*DV = 10
SD: DV 20 - WV 2 - WV*DV = 40
Spd: DV 20 - WV 4 - WV*DC = 80

Total WV = 17
Total (WV*DV)=330
Final rating value = 330/17 = 19.41

Not a bad Pokemon.

HOWEVER...we haven't taken into account COLIN's nature. If he were Adamant (+Atk, -SA) he would clearly be a significanly better Starly than if he were Modest (+SA, - Atk). My question is: How much better?

I currently apply a Nature Modifier, calculated as 1+ ((PlusStatWV - MinusStatWV) * 0.05). So, for Starly, Adamant would have a Nature Modifier of 1+((5-1)*0.05) = 1.2 and Modest would be 1+((1-5)*0.05) = 0.8.

So Adamant Colin's final RCPV - RedCabbage Pokemon Value (recently altered because "Coefficient" doesn't mean what I think "Coefficient" means) - would be 1.2 * 19.41 = 23.29.
And Modest Colin's RCPV would be 0.8 * 19.41 = 15.53.

For those people bored enough to have read this far my question is this:
Is nature more important than just 0.05 modifier per WV difference? Or is that about right? Or is it too much?

Any other questions, comments or astonished ambivalence would also be appreciated.

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Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:38 am
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Ace Trainer
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:59 pm
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Well, nature's value should aslo be affected by gender. Since nature doesn't matter as much as moves and ivs on a male, since that's all they can pass breeding wise, but that's different from combat value in which nature is almost entirely necessary to be correct on Some pokemon more than others.

Females can pass nature, and level up moves, in addition to ivs, should That be weighted?

Well, I know it is for me, I collect and organize pokemon based on breediing effectiveness before battle effectiveness since I can use them to produce the desired pokemon.

That's just me though.


Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:15 am
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Bug Catcher
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Really? IVs are inherited from the male Pokemon? I thought that they were completely random! Are they always identical to the male's or are they random but weighted towards the father's IVs?

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Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:32 pm
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RedCabbage wrote:
Really? IVs are inherited from the male Pokemon? I thought that they were completely random! Are they always identical to the male's or are they random but weighted towards the father's IVs?
Uh there's a guide to it somewhere.

Basically they get a random iv from the father, a random iv from the mother than a third random iv that could be from either of them (the third iv can't be hp I'm told)

That's the jist of it. There are more details.


Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:49 pm
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THE POWER IS ON!
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Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:29 am
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FaceLess wrote:
Basically they get a random iv from the father, a random iv from the mother than a third random iv that could be from either of them (the third iv can't be hp I'm told)

Wrong.

A Pokemon inherits exactly three IVs from its parents. The first IV can be an IV for any of the stats from either parent. The second IV can be an IV for any of the stats except HP from either parent. The third IV can be an IV for any of the stats except HP and Defense from either parent. However, any of these three inherited IVs can be overlap, therefore overwriting an earlier IV that a baby inherited, and so that's why people say a Pokemon can inherit up to three IVs from its parents. But at least one IV of the parents' IVs is always inherited by a baby.

Here's a visual example... which isn't too far from a breeding session I just finished earlier this afternoon because Krisp and I both wanted a Heracross with good IVs:

{heracross}, Male, 29 HP/31 Atk/4 Def/6 SA/20 SD/31 Spd
{heracross}, Female, 21 HP/31 Atk/25 Def/3 SA/21 SD/31 Spd

{heracross}, Male child, 20 HP/31 Atk/29 Def/4 SA/21 SD/31 Spd
{heracross}, Female child, 20 HP/31 Atk/29 Def/13 SA/25 SD/31 Spd

Each of the children inherited an Attack IV and a Speed IV from one of the parents. The male child inherited the mother's Special Defense while the female child doesn't seem to have inherited a third IV from her parents. This is because her third randomly generated inherited IV gave her a double IV from either the Attack or the Speed of the parents.

If you're wondering what proof I have to say that male parents pass IVs as well, I originally bred my male Butterfree (25/5/31/31/30/31) with my original female Heracross (30/15/6/22/17/30) and ended up with babies with 31 Defense, Speed and Special Attack (which unfortunately was useless on Heracross).

In the months I've bred Pokemon, I've also had MULTIPLE Pokemon who received all three of its inherited IVs from the male parent and MULTIPLE Pokemon who received all three of its inherited IVs from the female parent.


Last edited by Frost on Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:23 pm
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Bug Catcher
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Thanks. That's extremely useful. I'm quite surprised that the Psypokes breeding guide doesn't mention any of this.

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Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:39 pm
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That is very interesting, So it's entirely possible to recieve three stats from one parent.

This understanding improves the odds for everything except hp which at best can be 1 out of six.

That's some interesting experimentation, but according to my hap hazard guess based on memory the numbers you got are still viable, so it's not 100% that you can inherited all 3 ivs from one parent, since your only example gives only 2 being inherited.

And multiple just means more than one, so I think with the evidence provided it's jumping the gun to cry out that I am wrong and you are right.

Not to say that I myself am right. Just that the data does not support the conclusion.


Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:08 pm
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Lite Four
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Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:21 pm
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Here, I'll clear it up.

He's right, you're wrong.

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Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:10 pm
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