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 Euthanasia 
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Pokemon Ranger
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I know that this is a difficult and heated topic, and if this thread turns into a flame war, I'll have to lock it, but if people just act calmly and discuss instead of argue, this could be very interesting.

I just learned that today, the Knesset (Israeli parliament) passed a law approving of euthanasia. Of course, it's not that simple - the terms are very specific. You can only ask for euthanasia if an expert doctor gave you a life expectancy of 6 months or less, and you must ask for it ahead of time. So basically, you can't ask to be unplugged from medical equipment, you can merely ask ahead of time not to be plugged into medical equipment to begin with.

While it is very minimal, it is still a start, and I personally am very proud of my country, and very glad that this law was passed. I think that preventing somebody from wishing to die naturally and honourably, instead forcing them to go through unbearable pain and torture, being kept alive as long as physicaly possible, and drawing their lives out right to the edge, is a terrible thing to do to a person, and I am ashamed of countries who prevent people this simple and humane wish by making euthanasia illegal.

Do you think euthanasia should be made legal, in those places where it's illegal (i.e., the USA)?

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Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:54 am
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This is a very interesting discussion. As a medical student, I feel attracted to reply to this thread. I will be very brief and short, though, because I really don't feel like posting everything I know about this medical procedure.

I think the Euthanasia should be made legal in everywhere it is not. If a person suffers so much, why should you extent all the suffering? From what I've heard of my teachers, lots of pacients, who are still concious enough to speak, ask the doctor to remove the equipments that maintain their "life", in order to finish all that awfull pression. Besides, the family costs are always enormous when they have to pay for such medical procedure, of maintaining alive a person who has no more life expectation, and wishes to pass away.

I really don't care if its honourable or not, I don't care for this honour issue. All I care about is how the patient is feeling, and how the family will deal with that person's depart. There needs to be a psychologycal preparation for the event, from the part of the family and from the part of the patient. If there are no more expectations, and the suffering is unbearable, phisically, psychologically and economically, then a especial medical care must be taken, which is very professional, as Nido said.

Every discussion that deals with life are very complex and delicate. We have to understand, though, that life goes on, and so we do.

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Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:20 pm
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I agree that human Euthanasia should be legal. We allow our pets a painless death, why do we deny it to our fellow man? The point of medicine should not nessisarily be just the extention of human life, the the extention of comforable life, and if that cannot be granted, the option should exist.
However, on the other side of the argument, who defines the point when it should be made available, and who should decide at all if the paitiant is unable to do so for himself/herself?
Some people have this idea stuck in their heads that all life should be kept alive, even is it would be painfull (like right-to-life-ers, but that's another topic altogether). Niceties aside, it is killing a human being, and alot of people will have a problem with that.

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Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:36 pm
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Keeping someone alive, who is in such an ultimatly fatal condition that it causes them to wish they were dead is a bad as torture.

Torture is against human-rights eh.
Nuff said.

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Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:32 pm
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I am disappointed that it's illegal in some countries. It can be considered inhuman for someone to reject this prodecure. So instead they can live through pain and torture for 6 months. If you know you're going to die, and that you are in pain, is it so wrong to put someone out of their misery and demise? Especially when the person requested it.

I know, if I was told I had a week to live after a terrible crash, Iand I was in pain I'd rather say my goodbyes and end as peacefully as possilbe. (An unlikely situation, yes)

People should be able to have control over their lives, even when it comes to death. Say a patient knows they're going, and want this procedure, and the mother bursts in and doesn't let it happening. Would she really bear to see her child in pain? Even when she knows death is inevitable.

I'd rather see people end without such strenuous conditions. And thus agree with euthanasia.

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Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:32 pm
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Ignore this post.

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Last edited by flaming_fox on Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:41 pm
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My personal views on the subject are as follows:

I do not believe in someone deciding to "unplug" someone else.

I do believe in DNR papers.

Basically, I believe that life is something valuable enough that no one has the right to take it away just because they feel like it. Yes, some people die terribly painful, slow deaths; I understand that. But you'll find that its these people that often end up teaching something, some lesson to a member of the hospital staff, a family member, a friend, or another patient. Just because someone is dying is not a reason to "speed up the process." They might still have something left to say, even if they don't utter a word.

However, I see no problem with signing a paper that says "If I go, don't make me come back. Let me die." If I end up in the situation where I know I'm dying, I have every intention of signing a DNR. If I die, then it's my time to die. Even if there's a chance they could bring me back, I don't want it. For one, I live my life without regrets. I have nothing to hang on to here. So, when my heart stops, I want it left that way. Besides that, the more work the doctors do for you, the more they can charge. The last thing I want is to put my family in a situation of "we tried to save him, but we couldn't; you still have to pay for the failed attempt though."

So, yes, I agree with the law that's been set up in Israel. The idea of being able to opt to not be artifically kept alive in the first place, but not being able to be "terminated" once you've already started.

Really, the whole idea of being alive artificially creeps me out. If someone dies, it was there time to go. Forcing them to stay here seems more cruel than letting them move on to whatever you believe is there after death.

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Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:12 pm
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I think that if the person is on the verge of dying (i.e. Terry Schiavo if anybody's heard of her) should be allowed to be euthanised as long as the person/family agrees, the latter being only if the one in pain is incapable of speech.
And I agree with "sorry they died now give us your $$," it really could be a toll on the family. Really, whats more important, you knowing that they are literally in a better place now or crying over thier attempted recovery and being is paralysing debt?
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:34 pm
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I agree with most of you people, that Euthanasia should be legalised. From what I comprehend about Nido's post, the Israel Parliament has set very specific and strict terms regarding the, er, practice of Euthanasia, such that people cannot be unplugged from medical equipment, but can ask ahead not to be plugged into medical equipment. That sounds feasible to me, as the person himself/herself still has the ability to make a personal decision about his/her life, compared to someone already on the life support system, and has no conscious ability to make a decision, and has to let his family members decide. Sounds like the same thing, but to me it just seems slightly more moral to let the person make the decision on his/her own.

My reasons for wanting Euthanasia to be legalised is about the same as everyone's views - if I know I have no real chance to survive and lead a normal life again, I don't want to suffer the pain and misery, or, worse still, be stuck in that limbo of being neither alive, but not physically dead. I would want to be able to move on peacefully, hopefully to a better place. I believe that if it's time for you to go, delaying the inevitable is pointless.

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Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:32 pm
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While I feel that euthanasia is everyones own decision, I also feel a need to play devil's advocate at this point.

Everyone appears to assume that, when the person in a coma/hooked up to a machine wants to go, the whole family feels it's best. What if the family margianally has enough money to keep the person alive, yet the person hooked up wants to be put under, should he be put down then?

Alternatively, what if the family can pay, but isn't willing to, and he/she wants to live?

What if the person carrying a harmful disease that is contagious, but he/she wants to live and doesn't mind living by artificial means and can pay?

There is always the possibility that a person could recover from the condition that they're in. I'll look for the link this weekend after my finals, but I remember a story about a man who doctors diagnosed as being paralyzed from the neck down. And today that guy is doing karate. Like I said I'll look for the link after finals.

When responding to these questions, keep in mind this: medical advances are becoming better and new ones could occur any day. Also, with stem cells, artificial limbs, and biomedical engineering who's to say what can and cannot be fixxed a year, 6 months, or even a week form now.

As for what I would do. I'd want to stay alive by any means necessary especially with the knowledge that stem cells are being researched, I could be back on my feet before I know it.

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Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:21 pm
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i think its a good idea because if you only have 6 months to live and you dont want to put if off (dieing) you should be able to decide wether you want to die or you may not want to die painfully (if you are) and you may not want to be hooked up to a life support maching

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Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:27 am
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I think I would need more information. It seems as though Israelis can finally refuse certain types of medical treatment and not necessarily terminate their own lives with an injection or medication from enduring pain.

DNR papers in the United States keep people from being resuscitated when in a coma. Also, anyone in the United States has the choice to refuse any kind of medical treatment anytime. In certain situations, people might be deemed mentally incapable of making decisions on their own, so a family member might choose for them. Moreover, it is unethical for hospitals to refuse treatment to anyone who is in need of urgent care. The choice to keep terminally ill patients alive is not made by the government. People can choose how long they want to live, so long as they don't commit suicide (which if they did, who could punish them afterwards anyway). The only stipulation in the US is doctors cannot assist in the act of suicide, ie give pills (Hippocratic oath, "do no harm"). Besides, euthanasia is a power reserved for the states; it's not a national government choice.


Last edited by DatVu on Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:39 pm
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I agree,
sometimes it is better to die than live. I feel so sorry for people in hospitals sometimes. My Aunt was forced to live. While it brought us great grief when she died our family was relieved. I didnt know much about this at the time. (I was 10)

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Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:29 pm
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I think that it should be allowed here in the USA. I mean, if someone doesn't want to go through the terrible pain and agony, not to mention expense, of treatment (ie chemo and bone marrow transplants-very painful and costly) why aren't they allowed to just let it end? They do that for dogs if they're going to die eventually.

My older brother was born without kidneys. I know not whether they tried to keep him alive, but I'd say that it'd been best if they let him die. Cruel thing to say, but it'd save a lot of pain. He died before I was born. He would have graduated last year... :cry:

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Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:03 pm
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daveshan wrote:
While I feel that euthanasia is everyones own decision, I also feel a need to play devil's advocate at this point.

Everyone appears to assume that, when the person in a coma/hooked up to a machine wants to go, the whole family feels it's best. What if the family margianally has enough money to keep the person alive, yet the person hooked up wants to be put under, should he be put down then?

Alternatively, what if the family can pay, but isn't willing to, and he/she wants to live?

What if the person carrying a harmful disease that is contagious, but he/she wants to live and doesn't mind living by artificial means and can pay?

There is always the possibility that a person could recover from the condition that they're in. I'll look for the link this weekend after my finals, but I remember a story about a man who doctors diagnosed as being paralyzed from the neck down. And today that guy is doing karate. Like I said I'll look for the link after finals.

When responding to these questions, keep in mind this: medical advances are becoming better and new ones could occur any day. Also, with stem cells, artificial limbs, and biomedical engineering who's to say what can and cannot be fixxed a year, 6 months, or even a week form now.

As for what I would do. I'd want to stay alive by any means necessary especially with the knowledge that stem cells are being researched, I could be back on my feet before I know it.


I completely agree. I mean, I can see the point that most people are making saying "If I want to die, let me die now," but I really agree with daveshan. There are so many different things to consider, what's right? What's moral? What's economically feasible? There's a good chance the answers change with every case. I completely disagree with someone else being able to take someone off of life support. My mom was talked into cutting the life support of her mother and she still feels horrible about that decision (even though it occured more than ten years ago). Personally, I'm a fighter and I'm going to stick with it because, hey, miracles happen and I may just come back--like the people who have lived through "fatal" diseases or wounds.

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Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:29 pm
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daveshan wrote:
What if the family margianally has enough money to keep the person alive, yet the person hooked up wants to be put under, should he be put down then?

Yes. It's the patient's wish to die in that situation.

daveshan wrote:
There is always the possibility that a person could recover from the condition that they're in. I'll look for the link this weekend after my finals, but I remember a story about a man who doctors diagnosed as being paralyzed from the neck down. And today that guy is doing karate. Like I said I'll look for the link after finals.

Euthanasia generally isn't used for paralysis. It's more like terminal disease where the person is going to die anyway, and they would rather die painlessly than be put through however long they have to live while in pain.

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Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:06 pm
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It might be a bit necromatic (if the word exists) for me to post here but I'd just like to say this:

It's impossible to make a law to say when enthanasia should be allowed. Definitly if the patient is cetainly going to die, and they will endure unbearable pain. But, say if the person is in depression and they can't decide properly then the hospital and the patient's family should make the descision carefully. Certainly, in cases where the patient is in a coma, enthanasia should not be considered. These are all just my opinions though. Also, on the case of Terri Schiavo, some theorists say that she was not in a permanent vegatative state but that she was fully aware of her surroundings, and that her husband told the doctors to let her pass away simply so he could inherit her money. I keep a sceptical view of this but it is worth looking into, that relatives may simply want what's best for them, not the patient.

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Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:24 pm
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