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 HAPPY 4/20! 
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My friend reminded me today is good-feelings day.

Which sucks, because I will be at home studying, and cannot see any of my friends and colleagues on their best behaviors...


Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:40 pm
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It's Hitler's birthday, too.

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Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:47 pm
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Do you mind not ruining this?

Refer to this purpose alone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture)

(And, honestly - I don't know anyone's birthday except my own, my immediate family, and that's it. Not even my friends'. Most certainly not the birthday of a politician).


Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:06 pm
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This is implying that Hitler's birthday will somehow ruin the celebration of the use of marijuana.

Will it really now?

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Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:10 pm
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Hitler's death > Marijuana.
Anyways, I planned on make the 420 topic! Damnit P-l!
On-topic: I hate this day. It is the worst day of the year. Expect some protesting for 'Legalize Weed, Man'. No!

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Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:40 am
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Might as well make it politics then, no?

This refuses to go up an as image, so just click here
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(Yes, I am a part of the RevoLution, coordinating Ron Paul rallies at my college. It is an election year after all, and he may be our only chance to stop Mitt Romney from screwing up the elections).

The benefits of legalizing marijuana:

1.) Reduction in the drug war - less power for the feds, less arbitrary federal government protecting us from ourselves.
2.) Less people in the jail system - most first-time incarcerations are for drug use. While in jail, these "offenders" learn violent criminal acts. If you don't go to jail, you don't network with criminals, you don't build up hate for society.
3.) Hemp use will increase - instead of cotton for your clothing (depletes the soil of Boron), and cutting down trees for your paper (that destroys very old trees which take a long time to grow back), we can use the more durable hemp. Hemp grows quickly, requires fewer soil nutrients, and has more uses (see the practical uses of hemp by using Google - replacing plastics, replacing oil)
4.) Medical marijuana will be in full use - talk about cheaper medications, medical marijuana may cut down on a slew of drugs, used solely to counter the side-effects of other drugs.
5.) It can be taxed - this one you have most likely heard, that a tax on the product will work just as well as outright banning it, but instead of costing us (see points one and two), it will actually get us badly needed tax revenue.

(I'll see if I can come up with more later - I know it is out there)


Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:25 am
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Are you a pro at news conveying? Because you gave the "good" side.
The cons of legalized weed:
1.) Increased drug war, since the cartels will have competition. And we all know the cartels dont like competition.
2.) Decrease in literacy rate. I shouldnt have to explain this one.
3.) The smell. Its horrible. I live in a town full of stoners. I used to sit next to a whole pack of them. I didnt like it. The smell was unbearable, not to mention their attitudes...
4.) It creates douchebags. 'Nuff said.
5.) It's a gateway drug. You want someone on PCP coming into your house and killing you with their teeth? I sure as hell wouldnt.
6.) The fact that RON FRICKIN' PAUL is backing it should scare you enough.
Dumbass.
Oh, and your #3 fact is just an eyesoar.
Someone is stoned, or on their way to being stoned.

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Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:43 am
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in this thread: kids that have never smoked before and the post above me being totally wrong and retarded

The guy I was with a couple of months ago was an alcoholic. We used to buy bottles of liqueur after work and drink all morning then go back to work the next night. On St. Patrick's Day the TWO of us almost finished a bottle of 99 proof liqueur. Out of cocaine, weed, and alcohol, alcohol was by far the worst drug I've ever done. This dangerous drug doesn't even COMPARE to weed OR cocaine for that matter. I blacked out, threw my guts up, and had the worst hang over ever after St. Patrick's Day. I thought I was going to die when I was throwing up. I've snorted coke for 10 hours and the effects of that were nothing of alcohol.

My point? If marijuana is illegal then why isn't alcohol? Because Alcohol is controlled, taxed, and maintained by the government. Weed is a plant that can make you feel a little weird. Alcohol is poison. How many marijuana deaths occurred last year? None. How many alcohol related deaths? A lot.

This thread can stay for the sake of discussion of legalization, but if you're going to give some cons, please don't spout of dumb **** like "DURRR GATE WAY DRUG!!!!!!!!1111" like it's the 1950's.

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Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:48 am
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Samurott wrote:
The cons of legalized weed:
1.) Increased drug war, since the cartels will have competition. And we all know the cartels dont like competition.

Compare this to the alcohol prohibition of the 1900s. The mafia only flourished because alcohol was illegal, but they lost most of their profits once people could satisfy their wants legally and at a lower price. Why exactly should we not expect something similar regarding marijuana?

Samurott wrote:
2.) Decrease in literacy rate. I shouldnt have to explain this one.

Actually, you probably should. I can't find anything that supports a drop in literacy rate among those who smoke marijuana. Small drop in IQ, maybe, but that happens with most drugs, legal or not.

Samurott wrote:
3.) The smell. Its horrible. I live in a town full of stoners. I used to sit next to a whole pack of them. I didnt like it. The smell was unbearable, not to mention their attitudes...

Not the government's problem.

Samurott wrote:
4.) It creates douchebags. 'Nuff said.

Also not the government's problem. Alcohol and tobacco "create" douchebags too, yet they're both legal.

Samurott wrote:
5.) It's a gateway drug. You want someone on PCP coming into your house and killing you with their teeth? I sure as hell wouldnt.

At most, we don't actually know that. There are too many factors to consider when talking about people who use marijuana then progress to harder, more addictive drugs. I'm inclined to believe that it's more like drug dealers (who are generally the source for marijuana if you don't have access to a dispensery) trying to upsell their clients to something more addicting to give themselves more business. Marijuana, after all, isn't NEARLY as physically addictive as things like cocaine or heroin.

Samurott wrote:
6.) The fact that RON FRICKIN' PAUL is backing it should scare you enough.

Why should it matter who supports something? As crazy as the things Ron Paul says usually are, occasionally he says things that make complete sense. This is one of those times.


Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:29 am
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I'm gonna share something in response to the first point...this was on a Facebook page of Ludwig von Mises (essentially the founder of Austrian Business Cycle Theory, and noted Libertarian contributor).

Facebook wrote:
Pepsi and Coca-Cola workers don't do this to each other. Budweiser and Coors workers don't do this to each other. They obey the rule of law/market. Back when alcohol was illegal, it was a violent trade. If cola was criminalized, it would be a violent trade. The rule of law means peace: Lawsuits in impartial courts take the place of violence. (Of course the state cannot be impartial against itself, and private courts are preferable, but that's digressing.) As Mises said: "Nor is it by any means evident that such intervention on the part of the government is really capable of suppressing [alcoholism and morphinism] or that, even if this end could be attained, it might not therewith open up a Pandora's box of other dangers, no less mischievous than alcoholism and morphinism."

"Two young men, cut down in the prime of their life, were left hanging from a pedestrian bridge as warring drugs cartels continue to fight in Monterrey. One of the men was was missing a foot and had been stripped down to just his underwear while the other's clothes were splattered with blood."

Read more: GRAPHIC LINK - DO NOT CLICK UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED FOR GRAPHIC IMAGES


In response to point 3 - if the states were allowed more autonomy in how it would deal with drugs (rather than the federal government), a person discontent could move to a different state / municipality where things were better.
I'm gonna try to find an image easier on the eyes with more relevant information: http://californiapotblog.com/wp-content ... zation.gif
You could still have laws against driving while impaired or under the influence. You can have warnings out that say "Marijuana is bad for your health". And you can still tax it. But let it be done by local government, rather than a centralized power that is far-removed from how people operate.


In response to point 5 - it has actually been called into question as a "gateway drug".
http://scienceblog.com/12116/study-says ... eway-drug/
http://norml.org/news/2002/12/03/mariju ... rug-policy
That's just in America - Britain has a report out calling it "just a phase" - (I cannot find that link now either).


Point 2 has not been supported by any research - IMO, you are probably more likely to cause illiteracy if you cause trauma to the person (by removing their parents and shuffling the kid through foster home), or remove and ostracize the user (by putting them in the penal system).

Point 4 is a matter of opinion - personally, I think it would be great if the people (who are douchebags anyway) go and smoke, and get out of my face.

Point 6 is a serious matter for another topic. Ron Paul, from his medical and libertarian background, wants to legalize all drugs. If there is an addiction to marijuana, why should a person not get treatment (they'll get the drug anyway) for fear of being arrested? Same for cocaine and heroine. You're never going to cure the problem if the person is not allowed to freely come forward.
If marijuana has medical benefits, there is no reason that you should not be able to use it and explore treatments for yourself.
If it has religious significance, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason the government should stop you - you are not hurting another person. You are not conducting human sacrifice.


Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:05 pm
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I actually would love Marijuana to be legal, just for cheap medical usage. My Dad pays a ton for his medical marijuana.

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Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:39 pm
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Although no one struck down my last reason, your arguments do make some sense. Sorry if I sound bitchy here, but just listen, or read, rather.
Marijuana can destroy a lot. Krisp, alchol kills directly and indirectly. Weed kills indirectly. Someone is high and driving a car in an urban area. Their judgement is impeded. They hit someone, killing them. You were saying?
FW, while I did take in the fact that its debated as a gateway, its still classified as a club. A friend of mine got clean and is currently relapsing. He just doesnt know it yet. His current addiction (other than f****ng with me)? Heroin and crack. So yeah, its debateable. It depends on the user's qualities. I've had friends killed over it. So, I take a strong stand against. As for its medical use, which I clearly did not mention anything about in my original post, I'm ok with. Until an alternative is found.
Besides, why would you want to be stoned all the time? You'll never experience life. That said, the only reason I would actually want it to be legal is so that stoners will have nothing to talk about. Back to Krisp.
I've tried it before. I avoided a criminal record by an inch and it tasted horrible. Never have I tried it again. In fact, it practically hurt me more than ever.
Also, I was not speaking in terms of the government. It was on a personal level. Besides, why are you guys defending it?

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Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:02 pm
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Samurott wrote:
Although no one struck down my last reason, your arguments do make some sense. Sorry if I sound bitchy here, but just listen, or read, rather.


I am an avid, devout Paulite - I can give numerous reasons to elect Paul rather than Romney or Obama, therefore your argument is invalid.

Quote:
Marijuana can destroy a lot. Krisp, alchol kills directly and indirectly. Weed kills indirectly. Someone is high and driving a car in an urban area. Their judgement is impeded. They hit someone, killing them. You were saying?


The states can regulate drug highs in the same way they regulate alcohol. It doesn't work, but nowadays, even with marijuana illegal, people still drive under their influence (we can talk about the actual solution for that in another thread - privatization of roads falls under Libertarian philosophy)

Quote:
FW, while I did take in the fact that its debated as a gateway, its still classified as a club. A friend of mine got clean and is currently relapsing. He just doesnt know it yet. His current addiction (other than f****ng with me)? Heroin and crack. So yeah, its debateable. It depends on the user's qualities. I've had friends killed over it. So, I take a strong stand against.


Where did he pick up the crack and heroine? He probably has some form of OCD (most if not all addicts do - broad thing). The problem with treatment places is that they replace one addiction for another rather than curing it. And you see how good the drug laws are at preventing heroine and crack from getting into people's hands.

Quote:
As for its medical use, which I clearly did not mention anything about in my original post, I'm ok with. Until an alternative is found.


What alternative? If it works, it works. If it works without side-effects, and then a close-alternative is found with some side-effects, the empire will come in and say "okay, marijuana is illegal again". The problem is that if you legalize it for the sick, people who are not sick will still find a way to get it. Any doctor would be able to prescribe it, and find some stupid reason.

Quote:
Besides, why would you want to be stoned all the time? You'll never experience life. That said, the only reason I would actually want it to be legal is so that stoners will have nothing to talk about. Back to Krisp.
I've tried it before. I avoided a criminal record by an inch and it tasted horrible. Never have I tried it again. In fact, it practically hurt me more than ever.
Also, I was not speaking in terms of the government. It was on a personal level. Besides, why are you guys defending it?


That's up to the people as individuals to decide, not you - you forcing your views leads to intellectual sloth, the abuse of the nanny state, and totalitarianism. It is almost as bad as these people that want to ban trans-fats, or set limits as to how big a muffin can be if it is consumed.


Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:20 pm
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Tsk tsk. *Facepalm*
1.)I can give reasons as to re-elect Obama. Liberal Pride! So if you want to play it like that, your argument is invalid.
2.) Someone pays attention. I live in a towncounty where drugs are a constant problem. He went off by himself, w/o help. So... What now? He does not have OCD. Stop being stereotypical. It's called relapse.
3.) What 'empire'? And besides, no doctor will prescribe it if its deemed illegal. They will lose their liscense.
4.) Where did I force my views? Sure, I may be a dick sometimes. But I dont force my views on people. Oh, and trans-fat holds no nutritional value whatsoever. Thats why it was banned.
Wow. This is just becoming stupid.

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Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:33 pm
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To me, and where I live...

It's not necessary evil. You can have bad and good experiences with the drug. For me, not a lot of bad news comes from the illegal drug. Only that people have been caught with it. Nothing along the lines of the dealer taking away your TV, beating you up --- although in some cases I've heard the news from people saying they were offered a much "better and stronger" drug to satisfy their bad cravings, but it was more of an option rather than forced. Some also can feel pressured by it.

Taken in moderation, on a weekend, a holiday, after a stressful week at work, weed can be OK. :P

My best friend and I have. It wasn't a regular thing, trust me. And the "dealer" was hardly the evil stereotype people claim them to be. He was his brother's mate.

The only thing I have against it, is people who take it regularly I find extremely boring, especially men. And when they don't have a smoke, particularly women, they are generally not that nice. I've dated three and have/had a few mates. So in my opinion, it can definitely affect your personality.

Anyway, I've been through, seen, and heard goddamn awful stories of alcohol ten times worse than that of marijuana.

You're allowed to have an opinion, but not everyone's views are yours and you can't sway someone's beliefs, and it goes the same the other way round. You've had a bad experience with the drug, as does a percentage of the population. But there's a whole lot more terrible things than weed, that's for sure.

And that, my friends, is my opinion.

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Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:47 pm
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True fact: there is not a single documented case of a person dying of a marijuana overdose. Therefore, weed should be legal, and Prohibition should be restarted.

But, what do I know, I'm not even 21 yet.

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Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:18 pm
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I don't personally want anything to do with drugs, but prohibition just doesn't work. Research alcohol prohibition in detail (don't skip the changes made when it was repealed).

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Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:21 pm
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AS far as the Hitler v. Weed problem a bunch of posts back, last I remembered it was the best estimate of his birthday. Although, it's my birthday on 420 also, so I don't really care.

Back on topic, did anyone else read the study that showed cannabis, if taken not often (say, once or twice a month), it will increase your lung's power?

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Sat May 05, 2012 6:07 am
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