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Pokemon Master
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Religion is complicated. Not believing in a religion is also complicated. My favorite show Glee just did a religion based episode in which one of the main characters found religion through something that he called Grilled Cheeseus. Was it offensive to me, hell no. Was it funny to me, hells yes. Hell even my favorite character in the show said some things against Christianity in the show. I didn't like it, but it wasn't offensive. The writers of the show were expressing an opinion, and they have all right to do so.

By no means do anything in Islam, or any other religion "offend" me. I may disagree with some things, I may not like them, but they do not offend me in the slightest. There is this thing called culture and in the Islam, Muslim, or whatever religion where it is ok for a man to have four wives and a woman to have only one husband that is there culture. It may not seem right to people not a part of that culture, it is perfectly legitimate for those a part of that culture. If anyone finds that part of their culture or belief system wrong or stupid, well I'm sorry, they are stupid for remaining in that culture.

Every religion has its extremists, even Christianity. Hell the Puritans and the Pilgrims, pardon the pun, are not as pure as people think. They persecuted those that didn't believe the exact same things they did. They killed people, and you won't find that out in your history books as children. Do not believe me, they were the catalyst of the Salem Witch Trials. If you were Catholic back then in their community you were like Hester Prynne. So I cannot speak out against any other religion or belief system, as my own belief system has been in the wrong at times.

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Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:23 pm
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Well, in response to Azure/Blaziken_Is_Kool (Wonder why did you change your name), i think there is some correct things that you said, but i think there's something that could be added.

1. I don't really think about this one, maybe it just seems honorable.
2. It was restricted only in the food that was bad for our health, not randomly.

3. Even if they can have 4 wives, they still need the permission of the previous wife.
4. I didn't think about this one either.
5. Maybe they make that law so the religion of their children won't be so confusing. But i didn't remember anyone said about that, maybe it was just a tradition. (Just so you know, Zombie's mother is a Christian while his father was Islam)
6 and 7. I didn't really think about this one.
8, 9. and 10 are all correct, it is just people that make that kind of tradition. It wasn't needed nor have to do.

I guess that's all.


Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:51 pm
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Quote:
Things that Islam extremists do offend me too.


Um...the things RELIGIOUS extremists do offend me, this isn't just limited to one religion. WHY HELLO THERE WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH

Quote:
1. Muslims only eat/shake hands/etc. with their right hand. Why? Because they wipe their a** with the left one. We have toilet paper now, use it.


Wow, are you **** serious? Of course they use toilet paper, it's called wiping their asses with toilet paper WITH THEIR LEFT HAND.

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5. Muslims can only marry other muslims. Racist


Since when is that even a race? Do you realize how many religions have this rule too? Why are Muslims singled out for this?

I really don't think you know much about modern Islam and I think most of your reasons for "hating" the religion are pretty stupid, but I don't really feel like picking apart your entire post and pointing out what's wrong with it. I am entirely against having this thread on this forum.

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Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:58 pm
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Arguing about religion is pointless. A product of humanity, there are so many view points on it theres no way that everyone completely agrees. So stop bagging on other pplz religion. Spoken by a Buddhist. WHAM!

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Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:28 pm
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shinashu taji wrote:
By no means do anything in Islam, or any other religion "offend" me. I may disagree with some things, I may not like them, but they do not offend me in the slightest. There is this thing called culture and in the Islam, Muslim, or whatever religion where it is ok for a man to have four wives and a woman to have only one husband that is there culture. It may not seem right to people not a part of that culture, it is perfectly legitimate for those a part of that culture. If anyone finds that part of their culture or belief system wrong or stupid, well I'm sorry, they are stupid for remaining in that culture.


Yes, people are more than entitled to their culture, and I am perfectly fine with cultures. I actually think culture is very important. The only thing I do not like is when an aspect of a culture breaks the law. Like the "honour killings". The extremists that do so think it is alright, but the law disagrees.

shinashu taji wrote:
Every religion has its extremists, even Christianity. Hell the Puritans and the Pilgrims, pardon the pun, are not as pure as people think. They persecuted those that didn't believe the exact same things they did. They killed people, and you won't find that out in your history books as children. Do not believe me, they were the catalyst of the Salem Witch Trials. If you were Catholic back then in their community you were like Hester Prynne. So I cannot speak out against any other religion or belief system, as my own belief system has been in the wrong at times.


You are very right. Every religion had a "bad" point in history. Now there are just some bad muslim extremists. The Islam religion isn't that bad, it is just some things people do in what they think is in the name of Allah are bad. It happens with every religion.

@ DarkTrainer13

Everything you said is true. You have a good point that some people do make bad traditions that are associated with certain religions. It is not the religions fault.

P.S. I changed my name because it was very immature.
Krisp wrote:
Quote:Things that Islam extremists do offend me too.

Um...the things RELIGIOUS extremists do offend me, this isn't just limited to one religion. WHY HELLO THERE WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH


Yes. Religous extremists from all religions offend me.

Krisp wrote:
Quote:1. Muslims only eat/shake hands/etc. with their right hand. Why? Because they wipe their a** with the left one. We have toilet paper now, use it.

Wow, are you **** serious? Of course they use toilet paper, it's called wiping their asses with toilet paper WITH THEIR LEFT HAND.


Of coarse modern Muslims use toilet paper. I guess I should have been more claer. It is only the traditionals that do this. After all, if you had toilet paper available, would you use your hand? I do not think so :P
Krisp wrote:
Quote:5. Muslims can only marry other muslims. Racist

Since when is that even a race? Do you realize how many religions have this rule too? Why are Muslims singled out for this?

I really don't think you know much about modern Islam and I think most of your reasons for "hating" the religion are pretty stupid, but I don't really feel like picking apart your entire post and pointing out what's wrong with it. I am entirely against having this thread on this forum.



Again, you are right. Many religions do have this rule, I didn't mean to single out muslims. I also know many people do not follow this rule, in many religions. Love triumps all right?

Yes, I do know many modern muslims do not follow all, if any of the rules that offended me. In fact, my best friend is muslim, they just are not traditional, at all. I should have said traditional muslims offend me. Modern muslims, by no means offend me.

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Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:20 pm
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I think commenting on Azure's 10 reasons for hating Islam is a little unessacary seeing as he pretty much apologized....I just want to say that most of his reasons were either false, out of context, or deeper than the shallow mind to understand without discussing it with a learned Muslim...or researching from some place ather than the random hate site.

I just want to urge everybody to not believe what people tell them about Islam or to judge Islam on the actions of the nomads of the Middle East....it's a remarkable religion and very probably the true one if there is a true one.


Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:21 am
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Zombie wrote:
I think commenting on Azure's 10 reasons for hating Islam is a little unessacary seeing as he pretty much apologized....I just want to say that most of his reasons were either false, out of context, or deeper than the shallow mind to understand without discussing it with a learned Muslim...or researching from some place ather than the random hate site.

I just want to urge everybody to not believe what people tell them about Islam or to judge Islam on the actions of the nomads of the Middle East....it's a remarkable religion and very probably the true one if there is a true one.


I see what you mean. It is very hard to learn about Islam since the information available is so biased. I have talked to a few Muslims but their knowledge was not very deep. Probably the most unbaised information I found was that written in the Qu'ran. It is sad really. I feel bad for the muslims that constantly get associated with bad things because of the nomads. Actually I feel bad for everyone that is hurt by stereotypes. It isn't fair. Even if there was legitamite information out there how would you know it is legit?

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Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:47 pm
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Azure wrote:
I feel bad for the muslims that constantly get associated with bad things because of the nomads.

you know, you kinda helped perpetuate that earlier... i get that you don't like extremists, but right now there's a lot of bad press about muslims, solely because of terrorist organizations and 9/11. No, it's not fair, or right; but all we can really do is just try to set the record straight, and move on. and, uh, what do you mean by, "the nomads?"

also, a lot of my good friends are muslim, and they tend to be more genuine people than the Christians and Catholics and Jewish people I meet (not trying to offend anyone; could just be the areas i've lived in)

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Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:59 pm
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rex09 wrote:
Azure wrote:
tend to be more genuine people than the Christians and Catholics and Jewish people I meet (not trying to offend anyone; could just be the areas i've lived in)

I'm not that offended. Most other Jewish kids I know are really... just... not the best people. Most of my Muslim friends are really nice!

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Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:09 pm
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Really? My best friends are:
2 Jewish (Rachel & E. Rosenthal)
1 Buddhist (W. Lin)
1 Hindu (Rohit)
1 Catholic
Some of my other friends:
1 Lutheran
1 Muslim ("Mo" Mohammed-he's white too!)
1 Atheist
and 1 pen pal, who I don't know what religion he is (Steelbound-I have no clue what his real name is-don't ask me!)
My two most best friends are Rachel and W. Lin (he said he is only releasing his first initial and last name).
Rachel and Emily are counted as my best friends, but they are the best people that I know. W. Lin's the one that's BS'ing everything. I only stay friends with him because he's the one that gives me all the events if I miss them (which is most of the time) and also the one responsible for the hacked Raichu.


Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:29 pm
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Well, as i mentioned in some of my post before, one of my best friend was Catholic. And he also the one who often helps me if i need some help. Some of the other people are the same, but i don't really know about their religion. Anyway, everyone with different religion was always got a good relationship with me, so i don't have any problem at all at tolerance.

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Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:09 am
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I go to a Christian school so a lot of my friends are Christian.


Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:49 am
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I wish I could've gone to a Catholic school (If anyone didn't read some of the previous posts, I'm Catholic), but money's a bit tight in my family. So, I got stuck in a stupid public school. Well, that's what I thought. I used to hate other Christians, but now, after going to a couple of Fellowship of Christian Athletes club meetings (without telling them that I'm not an athlete), I can tolerate them. I even have a Lutheran friend! (Even three years ago, I would have completely scorned myself for doing such a thing.)


Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:43 am
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I'm glad we're all comfortable enough to talk about this.

I never went to a Christian school, but people say Im a pretty strong believer, even though I feel a bit of doubt in myself. It's good, torchie, that you'ree tolerating others. I can normally tolerate others, as long as they don't harass me about it. Still...I just hve a question for you atheists out there. I don't really understand how you guys can live knowing you will die all for nothing. How do you live that? I mena, you guys are awesome, but it's just a question ive been wondering for a while.

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Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:52 am
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well searchman, there was a time when I used to consider myself an Athiest, but I was still a generally good person and I suppose the reason for that was if you don't believe in an afterlife, then you work even harder to make this life as close to a heaven as you possibly can, and practice proved that being good to people had positive results and people liked me for being a good person which in turn made me happy. :)


Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:07 am
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Well, then, what if Atheists don't believe in heaven? What would they do then?
I can't think about having no afterlife with God. It's just impossible.


Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:09 am
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searchman52 wrote:
I'm glad we're all comfortable enough to talk about this.

I never went to a Christian school, but people say Im a pretty strong believer, even though I feel a bit of doubt in myself. It's good, torchie, that you'ree tolerating others. I can normally tolerate others, as long as they don't harass me about it. Still...I just hve a question for you atheists out there. I don't really understand how you guys can live knowing you will die all for nothing. How do you live that? I mena, you guys are awesome, but it's just a question ive been wondering for a while.


Being an atheist, I should be able to give you a just answer. You see, sometimes it is weird knowing that once you die that is the end. But that allows you to live your life to the fullest. To not leave anything unsaid or undone. We do not think about things like ?If I do that, will I go to hell?"

So yes, it would be comforting to believe that when you die you go forth into heaven. But it is also nice not worrying about how what you do now affects the afterlife because you belive there is none.

In Halifax, the banners on the city bus said "Stop worrying, there is no God anyway." I may believe that is true, but I do not think it is fair to post that on a bus. Just like I wouldn't like it if there was a religious sign on the bus.

What Zombie says is true. Atheist make the most out of this life.

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Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:15 am
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Death will bring nothing but emptiness and darkness. Nothing happens after death, you just stop existing.

Not that I think my speculation is right, that's just what I think. Or, that's what I hope. I can't really find a reason for heaven to exist, what, is it a place only humans go? What about that ladybug I just killed, does he go to heaven too? Or does he go to hell because he doesn't believe in God? I just think there's way too many inconsistencies and holes in the "heaven/hell" theory. Personally I'd want to be reborn because I think if I had another chance at living I'd actually be a decent person, but all hope is probably lost and I'll just die a sad, lonely, pile of **** in this life time.

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Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:18 am
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We can prove that when you die everything in your body stops. But we cannot prove that your soul or whatever passes on to some myhtological place when you die.

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Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:23 am
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First of all, mythological means something to do with myths.
Myths are stories of forgotten religions and of their god(s).
Second of all, I understand your point of view, Azure. But as a Catholic, I want to disagree with you.
It is true that we can't prove that our spirits will go up to God, but that is what faith is for. If you have strong faith, then you wouldn't really doubt that there is a heaven, or a God, or anything else that could be related to a paradise-like afterlife. (Well, in Catholicism, there's hell, a really bad place, and Purgatory, a in-the-middle place where you're supposed to cleanse yourself of your small sins before going to heaven. So, there's three choices of afterlife for us. Of course, we don't choose. We go to one place depending on our actions while on Earth.)


Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:45 am
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The only certainty of life is death. Death is the thing that I most fear in life, frankly because I like living. Still I have always dwelt on the question "what if my entire religion is a lie?" I don't care if is a complete lie, or just a really good fairy tale because it has led me to the best people I know in my life and those people have helped me through alot of things, mainly helping me accept who I am. I personally believe that animals go to heaven I mean God, if he/she exists, made them and are part of his/her creation then he/she would want them to enjoy eternal happiness.

Still Christians, Islamic People, Atheists. They are all just words that people tacked onto a group of people that they found that have similar beliefs and interests in. You need to go deeper to find out what people really are. Atheists can be the nicest people in the world, while some people who call themselves Christians can be the absolute scum of the Earth.

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Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:51 am
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Yeah, I guess so. At least that's why we have the concept of hell. It's where all the bad people go to when they don't confess their sins, like murdering, stealing, cheating on their wives/husbands, etc. etc. We have that, so people try to live better lives. Of course, there are people who are Christians by name only. Those are people who soil the good name of Christianity. I hate those people, but I'll never know who everyone is, because even innocent, good people could mess up and do wrong things.
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Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:08 am
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Krisp wrote:
Death will bring nothing but emptiness and darkness. Nothing happens after death, you just stop existing.

Not that I think my speculation is right, that's just what I think. Or, that's what I hope. I can't really find a reason for heaven to exist, what, is it a place only humans go? What about that ladybug I just killed, does he go to heaven too? Or does he go to hell because he doesn't believe in God? I just think there's way too many inconsistencies and holes in the "heaven/hell" theory. Personally I'd want to be reborn because I think if I had another chance at living I'd actually be a decent person, but all hope is probably lost and I'll just die a sad, lonely, pile of **** in this life time.


you could have a good 70 years left krisp, all the time in the world to be a good person this time around.

most religions and religious people, as far as i'm aware, tend to think that man was created in 'the image of god', but not the other animals. a ladybug hasn't got enough brain power to do much at all, just basic survival instincts - although they have nerves, they're only slightly more intelligent than a paper clip or a piece of gum. most religions do clarify that humans are better than all of the other animals, and that animals are all created for us, rather than alongside us - for food, clothing, and the likes. nothing more. so in my belief, no, they don't continue to exist beyond the grave.

i think humanity is superior to other life on earth, and honestly, i strongly appose animal charities and the likes, because there is so much suffering of people in the world still that could better use the money. alongside that, things like vegan diets are more expensive, and the extra money you make could be spent on fair trade products or the likes, helping make a difference in a btter place again.


i think a hope is a dangerous thing to put your faith in though, and alike every other religion, atheism, at the moment at least, is a faith - god has not been disproved, and personally i dont think ever will be. having lived an atheist wont help you beyond the grave, whether you're right or not. a religion has a chance to, if you are right, or even if someone else is right with similar ideas to you (eg. my islamic friend supports the view that most religious people get into the islamic heaven)

i don't think i believe in hell, or at least, to the description that its given. i like to thing that the description in revelations is actually a metaphor for the idea of not existing beyond the grave - not existing is something pretty difficult to imagine.

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Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:33 am
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ok, the ladybug thing....according to my religion, man is not created in the image of God because Islam is not a religion that defines who or what god is in any way because God...is everything, he has no physical shape or form or geographical location. the reason humans go to heaven and animals don't is because Human worship...that's what seperates from the animals, name one animal that preforms the act of worship..there are non. humans on the other hand ALL worship, look at every single culture in history, each one has had a form of religion and diety, it's because worship is a very basic human instinct.

and Krisp, thinking it's too late to redeem yourself is stupid, take the Quran for example, it says that even if a persons sins are like the highest mountain, or their sins fill the skies, repenting those sins will grant you immediate forgiveness (repent has conditions obviously).

and in my eye religion isn't a burden sent down to restrict me, to make me worried....no, it's the opposite, it's to take the burden off my shoulders, it's God's gift to me to guide me in the best way to live my life to live the happiest way I can, telling me the fulfilling things to do in life, and to warn me from the bad things that I should stay away from :)


Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:58 pm
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Wow. I seriously think that we, as Christians everywhere, shouldn't blame the Muslims for being violent. Look at us! The Quran (I studied a little bit about it during World History class) says a lot of good things. I mean, doesn't jihad mean struggle or something like that? (At least, it doesn't mean what most non-Muslim people think it means-->holy war) Anyway, even Christians can learn from the Quran, as well as Muslims learn from the Bible. That way, everyone can learn to tolerate one another, I think.


Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:04 pm
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