It is currently Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:44 pm



Reply to topic  [ 161 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 Religion 
Author Message
Ace Trainer
Ace Trainer
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:59 am
Posts: 253
Ok. First off animals are our companions on this world. WE ourselves are animals, the only difference is that we build stuff, and wear clothes. Being the fact that we are fancy animals why do we get to go to heaven and others don't. I'm a Buddhist, and I believe that we are all inter-connected through the spiritual realm. So when we are reincarnated, we most likely won't become a Human for a while. So... this B.S about how we are better than other animals is malarkey. Nuf' said. He aren't special we are just animals that developed a quirk to for worship.

_________________
Image


Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:09 pm
Profile
Ace Trainer
Ace Trainer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:24 am
Posts: 412
Location: credit goes to afonso for the avatar, and the "faceplant"
The Quran is full of nothing but good text, the things that people use against it is specefic verses used out of context without explaining the history and significance behind them, or exploiting the difference of the time and culture from today's to accuse the Muslims of doing things that are today considered wrong.

the word Jihad in arabic means struggle, yes. it means working hard at something, like a person who studies hard, he is doing Jihad, a person who works to serve his community, that is also a form of Jihad....there is the Jihad that means the act of fighting in battle in the name of God, and I just want to share some conditions of Jihad and help you compare what the Quran says to what Muslim extrmeists do.

first of all the rules of war are (I may not remember them all), do not harm women, children, non fighters, the elderly, the severly injured, the people in their homes, a person who has surrendered, or trees. do not harm holy men or their holy temples, do not slaughter cattle, do not wreak damage upon residences or crops, and fight to live to fight another day.....now, when a terrorist bomber slaps on a suicide belt and blows himself up in a public place, or hijacks a plane and crashes it into an office building, he is harming only innocents, he's killing women, children, old people....etc. he is not facing an armed enemy in combat, and he isn't even attacking a strategic target...I mean, I'm not a fan of america, but if your gonna crash a plane into something of america then crash it into an army base at the very least...don't harm the civillians....and when he blows himself up, does that count as fighting to live to fight another day? I think not....not to mention that Islam tells us to fight only the transegressors, and that we must never become the transegressors, for allah loves not the transegressor.


we're a good religion, trust me ;)


Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:21 pm
Profile YIM
Ace Trainer
Ace Trainer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:29 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
To all the people out there that believe in any religion, I have a question. How do you know? How can you be sure your religion is exactly right? or even remotely right? It is a question that has baffled me.

You see, the only thing I see religion has as a sort of "proof" is a book/script. To be honest, anyone can write a book. Harry Potter is a book and it isn't real. Even some non-fiction books are riddled with lies and/or opinions. Things like the Big Bang theory have facts that support them. I am wondereing if relgion has any facts? If someone would kindly point them out, for any religion, I think I could take religion a lot more seriously.

Inta Xonem wrote:
i think humanity is superior to other life on earth, and honestly, i strongly appose animal charities and the likes, because there is so much suffering of people in the world still that could better use the money. alongside that, things like vegan diets are more expensive, and the extra money you make could be spent on fair trade products or the likes, helping make a difference in a btter place again.



While I do not agree that animals are lesser than humans, I do agree with you on your opinion towards animal charities. I do not think animal charities are bad, I just think things like child abuse are more deserving.

_________________
Come and see my new and improved trading thread! Now with Black, White, and Dream World!!

{latias} Black FC: 1463 5647 1777 {latios}


Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:17 pm
Profile
Ace Trainer
Ace Trainer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:24 am
Posts: 412
Location: credit goes to afonso for the avatar, and the "faceplant"
Quote:
To all the people out there that believe in any religion, I have a question. How do you know? How can you be sure your religion is exactly right? or even remotely right? It is a question that has baffled me.


You see, the only thing I see religion has as a sort of "proof" is a book/script. To be honest, anyone can write a book. Harry Potter is a book and it isn't real. Even some non-fiction books are riddled with lies and/or opinions. Things like the Big Bang theory have facts that support them. I am wondereing if relgion has any facts? If someone would kindly point them out, for any religion, I think I could take religion a lot more seriously.



well I personally believe The Bible and the Torah to have been tampered with (not trying to be offensive, just stating what I think), because like you said, they are merely books, not only that, but they are translated books, well actually translates of translates, and nobody speaks or reads the original language anymore....and I personally wouldn't trust my microwave instructions if they'de come the same way.





but the Quran is different, it's hard for you to understand because you don't speak Arabic and have hardly any idea of what I'm talking about....but, in Arabic, we don't simply just put words together to make sentences, each sentence has an intricate structure....every single letter has a marking on it indicating the exact sound the letter makes, and each letter, each word effects every other letter or word in the sentence. The Quran is a miracle, an undeniable one, it's a miracle in the Arabic language, all the structure is solid in god-like way, in fact God sent the Quran down to the arabs, because they were the smartest linguistically at the time, so they could appreciate the sheer language of it. actually the first Muslims became Muslim just after reading the Quran with no questions asked, because they recognized that no mere mortal could have come up with it, and the Quran states in it that it is a challenge to mankind, and it challenges any man to come up with even one verse as miraculous as the Quran.





and where I believe the Bible and the Torah to have been tampered with across generations of monarchs and such, the Quran could not have been tampered with in the same way, because the tiniest change would cause a crack in the fabric of the Quran, therefore the Quran is as fresh as it was the day it come down, it's not just a book like Harry Potter....it's a miracle from God.





(and did I forget to mention the prophet Muhammad was illiterate 'the illiterate prophet', so explain to me how an illiterate man could have created the greatest masterpiece in the Arabic language that is no where near matched by any other piece of writing from the greatest Arab scholars of all eras)





and about proof of the credibility of the Quran, there is tons of scientific proof proving the credibility of the verses...I would go on explaining them all and providing links and such, but I honestly don't believe you really want to know, but simply want to undermine religion, but I encourage you to look into these matters, Islam has one of the highest rates of coversion of all religions, with 2000 people in America converting each year, there's a reason for that.)


Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:31 am
Profile YIM
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:05 pm
Posts: 581
Location: The Land of Ooo
I see what you're saying Zombie.. but this kind of pissed me off. It just kind of offends me that you boast about how Arabic is the very best, and I'm not saying it's not, but the world is full of all different cultures, languages, texts, and traditions. And every culture thinks differently of all the others, and most likely think they're the best. To say that the structure of the Quran is "god-like", and that they sent it to the arabs just because they were the smartest so that they could appreciate it makes me mad. It's just very snobby to me, for a religion to boast THAT MUCH over itself.

Now, honestly, I am not going to lie. I think that we as humans are higher than animals because we have achieved sentience. They have not, they don't necessarily "think" like we do. Some people (excluding children) think that animals speak to each other, and have their own language. They don't, not at all. They make different sounds that let other animals recognize whether they're in pain, content, mad, or scared. Animals just die, they don't go to heaven or hell. We used to be simple animals, but then we evolved mentally and became smarter than them. We worship, and has a species that worships, we have souls. Animals don't.


Oh, and one last thing. People who convert religions, and not from Christian to Atheist, or back. Because thats simply losing/gaining faith. But going from Christian to Islam. That just bothers me; I think religion is something you're raised with. Most people who grow up in a non-religious environment don't have a religion the rest of their lives, because they weren't raised with it, never saw the point in it, and were raised to simply not care.

_________________
Hi my name is Hunter
Avatar credited to me. I can make you one too if you want. ;D
Image


Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:51 pm
Profile
Ace Trainer
Ace Trainer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:29 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
@ Zombie

I completely agree with you on the topic of bible etc. Some religions are just changed so much that it taints their liability.

On the contrary, I actually would appreciate links to scientific facts backing up religion. Because I do care. I want to see that religion is more than a faith. Christianity has been long out of the running.

_________________
Come and see my new and improved trading thread! Now with Black, White, and Dream World!!

{latias} Black FC: 1463 5647 1777 {latios}


Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:23 am
Profile
Ace Trainer
Ace Trainer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:24 am
Posts: 412
Location: credit goes to afonso for the avatar, and the "faceplant"
Quote:
I see what you're saying Zombie.. but this kind of pissed me off. It just kind of offends me that you boast about how Arabic is the very best, and I'm not saying it's not, but the world is full of all different cultures, languages, texts, and traditions. And every culture thinks differently of all the others, and most likely think they're the best. To say that the structure of the Quran is "god-like", and that they sent it to the arabs just because they were the smartest so that they could appreciate it makes me mad. It's just very snobby to me, for a religion to boast THAT MUCH over itself.

I don't remember saying that Arabic was "the best", I mean, but what standards do you rate a language to be the best or not? I merely said it was a language that is the most complicated linguistly and with the strongest structure. and it isn't an opinion, it's a fact that the hardest language to learn fluently is Arabic. therefore if God was going to send His Book down to the humans, he would obviously want it to be in the most complicated, intricate language, I mean, he is God after all.

and if you're saying that it offends you that Arabs or Muslims think they're superior in some way than other races, then you couldn't be more wrong, Muslims are the least guilty of that in all the world, look at the Jews, they believe that they are the people of God and that all others are destined to go to hell, Hindus, they believe in untouchables, people who are socially exiled for virtually no reason, even Christians assumed superiority over other races and in the crusades went to the holy land to kill non-christians....Muslims on the other hand, we believe that ALL people are equal, The Quran was sent down to all the peoples of the earth, but was sent down in Arabic because it was the most complicated language of the era, one of the first acts Muhammad did was to buy and free all of the black slaves he could, so forget Lincoln, forget Martin Luther King Jr., Muhammad did all of that 1400 years ago. In the West women gained the right to own property in about 1950, when Islam came it gave men and women equal rights to the owning of property and inherritence, in a time where women were treated like less than nothing....the Quran IS god-like, it's not boasting, it's not opinion, it is fact, you have virtually no knowledge of the Arabic language to even begin to debate the subject, the Quran is Muhammad's miracle, the same as Jesus's miracle was to walk on water, or Moses's was to conjur snakes from sticks.


Well Azure, truth is I would really love to post a bunch of links and stuff and my opinions on all of them, but I haven't seen them all and I simply don't have the time because there are so many videos and things exploring this matter, so I suggest watching videos by 'Yusuf Estes' to learn more about Islam, and just look through videos talking about the scientific precision of the Quran (if you're as interested as you say)

let's start with one about Pharoah, I like this video because he starts with talking about the "only faith" direction that most Christians take "have faith brother, it says blue".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcFIQgdFXEY

and this(this is part one of seven, I haven't seen them, but it's by Sheikh Yusuf Estes and therefore I trust him ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_u5bkXH ... re=related


Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:34 am
Profile YIM
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:51 pm
Posts: 616
Location: hiding in my hoenn secret base
I will say it: I am a Evangelical Christian.

I watched acouple of Yusuf Estes video's and read alot about him, wikipedia, his testimony, some other stuff.

Interesting story. Find it here:

http://www.famousmuslims.com/Yusuf%20Estes.htm

heres a quote-

"I made millions of dollars in those years, but could not find the peace of mind that can only come through knowing the truth and finding the real plan of salvation. I'm sure you have asked yourself the question; "Why did God create me?" or "What is it that God wants me to do?" or "Exactly who is God, anyway?" "Why do we believe in 'original sin?" and "Why would the sons of Adam be forced to accept his 'sins' and then as a result be punished forever. But if you asked anyone these questions, they would probably tell you that you have to believe without asking, or that it is a 'mystery' and you shouldn't ask."

I would say he never was a Christian. True Christians have peace in God and can answer those questions.

I can answer those questions easily and I am a high school student:

1) God created humans to glorify him. God is perfect and we where to be the pinnacle of his creation.

2) What does God want you to do? To be a Christian means you live to glorify God. That isn't a discussion of what time of sandwich to eat for lunch but a desire to glorify God. If you feel you are glorifying God where you are? Great. If you need to move on? Pray and take an oppurtunity.

3)God is the creator of the universe.

4) THe orginal sin explains how the world fell and what caused all this death and destruction.

5) God cursed man. Gen. 3 16-24

If you have a open mind here is a video i pray you watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpkhDAfVA5U (saved or decieved- tackles the fake christians. If you are disgusted by hypocracy watch)

_________________
Veni Vidi Vici



I post AoE 3 on YouTube. Look up BigThunderMan.


Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:20 pm
Profile
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 1:17 am
Posts: 563
Personally I am a believer in the floating cleffa... >.> psst... it speaks to me in my sleep


Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:52 pm
Profile
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 6:07 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Lilycove City, Hoenn Region
Eh, a few pages back, I said I was Catholic, and a strict one at that.
That's not changed much. I'm just a lot more tolerant than I was.
And I thank this thread for that.


Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:54 pm
Profile
Ace Trainer
Ace Trainer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:29 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
I watched some of those videos Zombie, they were actually quite interesting.

But I still find myself not convinced that any one religion is right. It would take a lot to convince me. No religous person has ever said anything so profound that I really had to stop and think about it. It is sad really. Part of the problem I think is that I learned so much about science, then learned about religion

_________________
Come and see my new and improved trading thread! Now with Black, White, and Dream World!!

{latias} Black FC: 1463 5647 1777 {latios}


Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:22 pm
Profile
Dragon Tamer
Dragon Tamer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:39 am
Posts: 207
Location: A train of thought
Azure wrote:
Being an atheist, I should be able to give you a just answer. You see, sometimes it is weird knowing that once you die that is the end. But that allows you to live your life to the fullest. To not leave anything unsaid or undone. We do not think about things like ?If I do that, will I go to hell?"

So yes, it would be comforting to believe that when you die you go forth into heaven. But it is also nice not worrying about how what you do now affects the afterlife because you belive there is none.

In Halifax, the banners on the city bus said "Stop worrying, there is no God anyway." I may believe that is true, but I do not think it is fair to post that on a bus. Just like I wouldn't like it if there was a religious sign on the bus.

What Zombie says is true. Atheist make the most out of this life.


(ponders for a moment...)
Ok, i get it. It's always good to understand other's beliefs. Thanks.

_________________
Image


Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:25 pm
Profile
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:13 am
Posts: 690
Location: Avoiding roasted cabbage, not eating earwax, and looking on the bright side of life
This thread has definitely humbled my opinion and increased my understanding of other religions. Thanks, guys.

_________________
"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses." -Abraham Lincoln
"You can't argue with all the fools in the world- it's best to let them have their way and trick them while they're not looking." -Brom
Credit to Jester for the avatar!


Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:14 am
Profile
Dragon Tamer
Dragon Tamer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:15 pm
Posts: 103
Location: If I wanted you to know, then I would tell you!
KingErick wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpkhDAfVA5U (saved or decieved- tackles the fake christians. If you are disgusted by hypocracy watch)

Ok. What I gathered from that speech is, in compressed form...
*ahem*
"If you aren't the same kind of Christian that I am, then you aren't Christian at all."

Also, a comment on that same video states "It's a delusion? Wow! That's really calling the kettle black.?"
Well said my friend. Well said indeed.

_________________
Anger {wobbuffet}, initiate death.
Love {wobbuffet}, initiate instant awesome.
Kill {wobbuffet}, initiate brutal murder from me...
Image


Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:00 am
Profile
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:05 pm
Posts: 581
Location: The Land of Ooo
So at Thanksgiving, I was bored and at my grandparents house. There was the interesting book on the coffee table called "HEAVEN" I pick it up and look at it for a second and think "what the hell, could be interesting", and it really was. I was just flipping around through it to different sections and this one section talked about what heavens like and how to get into it. It peaked my interest so I read the whole section and it went a little something like this..

It said that we are all born as sinners, and that if we want the Lord to forgive us of our sins we have to accept him. There was a section about Infants that said something along the lines of "sadly, infants are too young and ignorant to understand God. God has a set of rules and cannot bend them, therefore it is only that he must send them to hell. Although they won't experience the suffering that adults feel when they go to hell, they won't receive the blessing of the Lords Kingdom" something like that, but it was weird. It really made me think, whenever babies die we're always saying "they're in a better place now" when really... they aren't. It was weird. But the book was really fascinating, I don't want to get to into it, but I find that though everything about Christianity won't always appeal to me, it's not all bad. You don't have to be some foot washer just to fulfill your life as a good christian person. All you have to do is believe in God, and believe that he is your god. So the book says, I just found that very interesting and really changed my perspective. Really, hearing what everyone has to say has really changed my whole perspective on ANY religion since I first started this.

_________________
Hi my name is Hunter
Avatar credited to me. I can make you one too if you want. ;D
Image


Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:02 am
Profile
Dragon Tamer
Dragon Tamer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:15 pm
Posts: 103
Location: If I wanted you to know, then I would tell you!
Magikarps_Beast wrote:
So at Thanksgiving, I was bored and at my grandparents house. There was the interesting book on the coffee table called "HEAVEN" I pick it up and look at it for a second and think "what the hell, could be interesting", and it really was. I was just flipping around through it to different sections and this one section talked about what heavens like and how to get into it. It peaked my interest so I read the whole section and it went a little something like this..

It said that we are all born as sinners, and that if we want the Lord to forgive us of our sins we have to accept him. There was a section about Infants that said something along the lines of "sadly, infants are too young and ignorant to understand God. God has a set of rules and cannot bend them, therefore it is only that he must send them to hell. Although they won't experience the suffering that adults feel when they go to hell, they won't receive the blessing of the Lords Kingdom" something like that, but it was weird. It really made me think, whenever babies die we're always saying "they're in a better place now" when really... they aren't. It was weird. But the book was really fascinating, I don't want to get to into it, but I find that though everything about Christianity won't always appeal to me, it's not all bad. You don't have to be some foot washer just to fulfill your life as a good christian person. All you have to do is believe in God, and believe that he is your god. So the book says, I just found that very interesting and really changed my perspective. Really, hearing what everyone has to say has really changed my whole perspective on ANY religion since I first started this.

O.o
I was always told that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross saved the babies and the children that were too young to know Christ. 'cuz Jesus loved the children, right?

_________________
Anger {wobbuffet}, initiate death.
Love {wobbuffet}, initiate instant awesome.
Kill {wobbuffet}, initiate brutal murder from me...
Image


Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:21 am
Profile
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:05 pm
Posts: 581
Location: The Land of Ooo
Well, the thing is, you have to accept Jesus into your heart. They said unfortunately infants are too young too understand Jesus or any of that, so they can't be helped. Unless they're baptized as a baby.

_________________
Hi my name is Hunter
Avatar credited to me. I can make you one too if you want. ;D
Image


Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:51 am
Profile
Dragon Tamer
Dragon Tamer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:50 pm
Posts: 238
Location: <*((( ><
I suppose I'll throw in my 2 cents here. I'm Methodist Christian and was raised that way, personally i believe in tolerance of all religions although I do have differing opinions upon the caste system of Hinduism =/. Now I'm not entirely sure if Methodism has been explained at all in this thread so I'll just give a brief overview of my opinions and basics. Methodists basically believe that life is more about free will and that things are not so set in stone, life is about how much you can help others or make a difference for the better. Methodists (or at least the churches i know of) believe that the christian scriptures should be viewed with reason and be interpreted as such. For example I believe both in evolution and creation, i simply feel that the story of Adam and Eve is meant to be a simplistic analogy of life and that the idea that humans were created as we originally are was something that was only fathomable to those long ago and as such was a universal and very general statement of belief. It is felt that the world and its wonders should be examined and understood.

@Zombie I completely understand where you're coming from about the Quran and the good ideals presented in it where Islam like any other religion have their own extremists, its a shame they seem to be prevalent in the world today as the middle east used to be one of the more technologically advanced cultures due to there being no "Dark Age" unlike Europe, until recently that is =/

@Magikarp Beast, I have no idea of what you were reading but I believe that to be completely false, Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins and to punish a baby for not being able to grasp any concept of the world is unfathomable especially if the child has been baptized. they had no chance too. As such i refuse to accept such a statement and it is my opinion the book was of a more cynical perspective written by what i would call a more draconian sect of the christian faith

_________________
Image Platinum Ether- 1806 9029 2434
Black Aether- 2623 2660 6854


Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:27 am
Profile
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:05 pm
Posts: 581
Location: The Land of Ooo
I completely understand what you mean, but it's an interesting take. You may have to read, it's a big book, but I flip through it to the interesting parts. It's Called Heaven by Randy Alcorn

_________________
Hi my name is Hunter
Avatar credited to me. I can make you one too if you want. ;D
Image


Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:21 pm
Profile
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:51 pm
Posts: 616
Location: hiding in my hoenn secret base
Sorry for not replying i have been busy:

@Azure: http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers
if you look around this site you will find everything you seek

@nomnom52- thats not what the video is trying to say at all. However, all i will say im glad you heard that and hope it works on your heart. I would encourage you to look more into it. If you dislike that i cant do anything about it- but I would say John is very clear and he doesnt say anything radical. He doesnt condemn people. The only one convicting you is you. He merely makes some simple points from the bible. Nothing brilliant, nothing radical just biblical principals.

@Magikarps_Beast- I would say that book is wrong. God is compassionate. IF you can be held accountable for your sins you will be but if not i dont think you will be. However the bible does say in Matthew 19:14 :Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." I would say that book isn't accurate.
you said: All you have to do is believe in God, and believe that he is your god.
Yes. And if you truly believe that your life will change.

you said: Unless they're baptized as a baby.
Baptism doesn't save you. Baptism is an expression of Faith. Baptism should be a conscience choice.

@Ethereal Ice-

I agree with what you said, We probably disagree on minor points but is the key tenants that is the most important and that binds us as brothers in christ

_________________
Veni Vidi Vici



I post AoE 3 on YouTube. Look up BigThunderMan.


Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:17 pm
Profile
Pokemon Master
Pokemon Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:49 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: William McKinley High School. Lima, Ohio.
Baptism is not an expression of faith. Baptism cleanses us of Original Sin so that we may accept Jesus. Different churches preach different views about unbaptized babies. They also preach that there are different forms of baptism.

_________________
Image
I suck at WiFi battling.


Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:25 am
Profile
Ace Trainer
Ace Trainer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:29 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
@ KingErick

Thanks, that website did answer a number of my questions.

I had the benefit of being brught up nuetral to all religions. My parents were brought up Christian but then turned Athiest. When they were raising me religion was a topic left untouched. They told me that they wanted me to grow up, do some thinking, and pick a religion that I thought was right. I was lucky indeed. May it be for better or for worse, I picked Athiesim.

Just stop and think for a moment about what the world would be like without religion. An interesting thought. Nonetheless, I am sure everyone's imagination will conjure up a very different world.

_________________
Come and see my new and improved trading thread! Now with Black, White, and Dream World!!

{latias} Black FC: 1463 5647 1777 {latios}


Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:10 am
Profile
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:13 am
Posts: 690
Location: Avoiding roasted cabbage, not eating earwax, and looking on the bright side of life
Eldest by Christopher Paolini, page 541-4 wrote:
Eragon presented himself to Oromis and said, "Master, it struck me last night that neither you nor the hundreds of elven scrolls I've read have mentioned your religion. What do elves believe?"

A long sigh was Oromis's first answer. Then: "We believe that the world behaves according to certain inviolable rules and that, by persistent effort, we can discover those rules and use them to predict events when circumstances repeat."

Eragon blinked. That did not tell him what he wanted to know. "But who, or what, do you worship?"

"Nothing."

"You worship the concept of nothing?"

"No, Eragon. We do not worship at all."

The thought was so alien, it took Eragon several moments to grasp what Oromis meant. The villagers of Carvahall lacked a single overriding doctrine, but they did share a collection of superstitions and rituals, most of which concerned warding off bad luck. During the course of his training, it had dawned upon Eragon that many of the phenomena that the villagers attributed to supernatural sources were in fact natural processes, such as when he learned in his meditations that maggots hatched from fly eggs, instead of spontaneously arising from the dirt, as he had thought before. Nor did it make sense for him to put out an offering of food to keep sprites from turning the milk sour when he knew that sour milk was actually caused by a proliferation of tiny organisms in the liquid. Still, Eragon remained convinced that otherworldly forces influenced the world in mysterious ways, a belief that his exposure to the dwarves' religion had bolstered. He said, "Where do you think the world came from, then, if it wasn't created by the gods?"

"Which gods, Eragon?"

"Your gods, the dwarf gods, our gods . . . someone must have created it."

Oromis raised an eyebrow. "I would not necessarily agree with you. But, be that as it may, I cannot prove that gods do not exist. Nor can I prove that the world and everything in it was not created by an entity or entities in the distant past. But I can tell you that in the millennia we elves have studied nature, we have never witnessed an instance where the rules that govern the world have been broken. That is, we have never seen a miracle. Many events have defied our ability to explain, but we are convinced that we failed because we are still woefully ignorant about the universe and not because a deity altered the workings of nature."

"A god wouldn't have to alter nature to accomplish his will," asserted Eragon. "He could do it within the system that already exists. . . . He could use magic to affect events."

Oromis smiled. "Very true. But ask yourself this, Eragon: if gods exist, have they been good custodians of Alagaesia? Death, sickness, poverty, tyranny, and countless other miseries stalk the land. If this is the handiwork of divine beings, then they are to be rebelled against and overthrown, not given obeisance, obedience, and reverence."

"The dwarves believe--"

"Exactly! The dwarves believe. When it comes to certain matters, they rely upon faith rather than reason. They have even been known to ignore proven facts that contradict their dogma."

"Like what?" demanded Eragon.

"Dwarf priests use coral as proof that stone is alive and can grow, which also corroborates their story that Helzvog formed the race of dwarves out of granite. But we elves know that coral is actually an exoskeleton secreted by miniscule animals that live inside the coral. Any magician can sense the animals if he opens his mind. We explained this to the dwarves, but they refused to listen, saying that the life we felt resides in every kind of stone, although their priests are the only ones who are supposed to be able to detect the life in landlocked stones."

For a long time, Eragon stared out the window, turning Oromis's words over in his mind. "You don't believe in an afterlife, then."

"From what Glaedr said, you already knew that."

"And you don't put stock in gods."

"We only give credence to that which we can prove exists. Since we cannot find evidence that gods, miracles, and other supernatural things are real, we do not trouble ourselves about them. If that were to change, if Helzvog were to reveal himself to us, then we would accept the new information and revise our position."

"It seems a cold world without something . . . more."

"On the contrary," said Oromis, "it is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our own actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do, instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment. I won't tell you what to believe, Eragon. It is far better to be taught to think critically and then be allowed to make your own decisions than to have someone else's notions thrust upon you. You asked after our religion, and I have answered you true. Make of it what you will."
I personally gave this much thought. What's everyone else's?

_________________
"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses." -Abraham Lincoln
"You can't argue with all the fools in the world- it's best to let them have their way and trick them while they're not looking." -Brom
Credit to Jester for the avatar!


Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:36 pm
Profile
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:51 pm
Posts: 616
Location: hiding in my hoenn secret base
shinashu taji wrote:
Baptism is not an expression of faith. Baptism cleanses us of Original Sin so that we may accept Jesus. Different churches preach different views about unbaptized babies. They also preach that there are different forms of baptism.



No its not. You will not find a single verse in the Bible that says that. Baptism originated from Jewish cleansing processes. It was a familiar idea to the Jews because they would do a "mikvah" as a cleansing. However, JESUS COMMANDED it. He didn't say that if you don't baptize yourself you are going to Hell. You can never do anything to save your soul from hell besides believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Unfortunately the Catholic church has splintered from Christianity; they no longer practice true Christianity but a mix of Christianity and works based actions that cannot save your soul.

@Edoc'sil- Yes, I did find that interesting when I read through the series and incredibly sad. Rather than tackle every element of that passage which covers creation, the state of the world, and makes an incredible claim that the world is better without religion lets open a dialogue about it.

Which issue in that passage would you agree with? I'll respond from a Christian perspective.

_________________
Veni Vidi Vici



I post AoE 3 on YouTube. Look up BigThunderMan.


Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:29 am
Profile
Pokemon Ranger
Pokemon Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:13 am
Posts: 690
Location: Avoiding roasted cabbage, not eating earwax, and looking on the bright side of life
I don't exactly agree with Oromis, but I do see some truth in it. My mind works in an odd way, but everyone's mind is weird to some one else. What can be proved, I believe. What cannot be proved, I don't agree with. If I were a different person, I would become an arguing psychopath that no body liked. But I don't like to argue. 9 times out of 10, I just nod in half-agreement and keep walking at a statement, not wanting to ignite an argument. Furthermore, I said I have given a lot of thought to the topic, never exactly choosing a side or favoring an argument. I am in no-man's land, straddling the line, if you will. I.e: I put full belief in the possibility of Noah's ark, as there has been proof that a gigantic flood happened in the past. Other stories seem largely impossible. As a closing statement, When it comes to certain topics, humans rely too heavily on faith, not proof. The believe, but most likely they will never know for certain. If proof arises supporting a religion, I will immediately revise my thoughts and acknowledge it. For now, this is my point of view and changed slightly since I was-and still am-raised Jewish.

_________________
"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses." -Abraham Lincoln
"You can't argue with all the fools in the world- it's best to let them have their way and trick them while they're not looking." -Brom
Credit to Jester for the avatar!


Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:23 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 161 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.