I also disagree with giving healthcare, which is in no way a human right but an individual privlidge, to criminals. Helping them with education is one thing so they can get on the right track and won't end up back behind bars, but they can pay for their own healthcare. We wouldn't socialize healthcare for regular Americans and we shouldn't do it for criminals either.

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We wouldn't socialize healthcare for regular Americans and we shouldn't do it for criminals either.

Or just socialise healthcare for everyone. Why does America have such a grudge against state-run institutions? No politician over here would even dream of trying to remove the NHS. O_o

Edit: @lordtomato: Fine, fine, don't give them televisions and make them actually do something productive but do realise that prison serves no purpose if the inmates just keep reoffending.

Because making institutions state-run, AKA socialism, doesn't work. Government that governs best, governs least. America was founded on the many ideas, one of which was that governments mustn't grow too powerful and that government must be limited. Americans don't want their country to turn into Canada or Europe where the government runs things rather than the people. The concept of socialized healthcare goes against the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of property. Not only is it not the government's job to give us healthcare and things like it, but it's also scary to think the government not only would get that power but how it'd use it. I don't think the federal government ought to be able to decide who gets treatment and who doesn't, who lives and who dies. But aside from the tyrannical aspect of socialism and the threat to life it poses, there's also the fact that Americans support capitalism, not socialism. We support free markets and free trade, and along with that also comes the economic rights of the individual. People shouldn't have to be taxed for government programs like healthcare, especially when there's no legit purpose behind it. People should be able to choose what kind of care they get rather than looking to the government. People are taxed enough already and they should also have a choice when it comes to their own health and lives; it's not the government's business. So it violates the very ideas of life, liberty, and property.

Aside from individual freedom, there's also the fact that state-run institutions suck. They just suck. Let's see here, Americans trusted the government to save their money for social security, and instead of doing that the government spent the money and soon social security will be bankrupt. The government took over the job of cleaning up after disasters, and it took five days for FEMA to respond to Hurricane Katrina. From the New Deal to the Great Society there have been efforts to wage a war on poverty, make jobs, and put the people to work, and instead the New Deal pulled America deeper into depression and the Great Society and War on Poverty increased poverty and the unemployment rate. The government has for 20 years been unable to secure our borders to prevent illegals from invading our country. The Department of Motor Vehicles... do I even need to say it? So we're supposed to trust the government that failed to end the Great Depression, failed to end poverty multiple times, can't stop gangs, can't respond to natural disasters, can't run public transportation properly, can't run the post office, can't run the DMV, screwed up Social Security, screwed up Medicare and Medicaid, can't build a border fence, and has only ever managed to waste money, ruin lives, control people, raise taxes, establish bureaucracy, and never get anything done... to manage the best healthcare system in the world and lower it to the effectiveness of the systems of Europe and Canada? No thanks. I don't want to wait a few months to get cancer treatment like our buddies up north or pay higher taxes.

There's also a little thing in America called the Tenth Amendment, and so I don't think it's the government's job to provide healthcare or anything outside of its constitutional requirements. But in an activist world where the Constitution means less and less with each day the Supreme Court and Congress meet and we look to foreign law rather than constitutional law to make decisions, I'll simply say that government has managed to screw everything it's gotten its hands on since Woodrow Wilson.

Socialism is not only the antithesis of capitalism and economic freedom, and a threat to liberty and small government, but it's a threat to the lives of others and a crime against those that need good care and treatment and not incompetent government controlling who lives and who dies.

Cobalt... Is America just full of paranoid pricks such as yourself who vote in a chimpanzee to run your affairs? Actually I just answered my own question. Ever since 9/11 all you hear from Americans is 'America is the land of the free and Capitalism' Yeah. Land of the free if you happen to be born there. However if you're from any other country on Earth you can **** right off because you're blatantly a terrorist and only want to feed from the rich blood of America.

'Governments musn't grow too powerful' made me laugh. Like a government throwing thousands of flag waving, apple pie scoffing soldiers to 'liberate' a country that never asked for Americas help. It doesn't get more powerful than that.

wow deep

I notice that instead of debating what I said you made it your objective to attack me, my president, my countrymen, and my country for no reason. What the hell is this? Way to get off topic with anti-american BS and insults. Thanks for that.



If you want to debate the war then go make another thread and I'll be sure to get involved, but as it stands going to war is one of the few powers of the government's enumerated under the Constitution. Now maybe you should make another so we don't get off topic of the death penalty and prison conditions and get this topic locked and ruin the chance for people to discuss it.

I was responding to someone that wanted to know why I didn't want prisoners or anyone getting healthcare from the government, and I responded thoroughly. I remained on topic if only because I clarified my position on not giving something to prisoners (the people this topic is about). You decided to attack America by calling me and my fellow Americans pricks for going to war. I really don't want to get into this anymore. I'm not going to let you get away with hit and run attacks, but I don't want to keep wandering off topic, so I'll end it here; take it to another topic.

guys, go to the political pantry, its why i made it. now shoo!!

No we're not a nation full of people like that. If you were informed in any way, you'd see that many people here don't like him. Bush was elected because of the Supreme Court ruling that what happened in Florida was alright.

What the United States need to do is stop helping people in the world, that's what I think. You get people as dumb and blatantly retarded like this guy who assume a bunch of crap about a nation he probably never has even been to. Once we stop helping people, the world will see that we really couldn't care less about the people that others will refuse to help. I'm not for the Iraq war, and I never was. You need to stop being such a freaking a-hole and grow the hell up.

c'mon guys, POLITICAL PANTRY

Archangel, your inserted comments are basically useless. I understand that yes, this should be in the political pantry, but you making a comment saying just that two times and pretending that you have power is futile, but suit yourself.

I find it ironic because Lobsel is against the Iraq War, yet he claims that the Iraqis asked us for their help, to invade their country and thrust democracy upon them without another choice. When most people who are against the Iraq War use that argument as a staple against it. Whatever.

Anyways, 2x4b is wrong in some ways but is right in some other ways. It really does go to show our international reputation because whether or not he's informed, that's what he thinks. And if our international reputation is as bad as he portrays it to be, then we need to turn around -- and fast. He might be wrong about gun-wielding (blahblahblah I won't get into the details) but he's more right in the fact that its his impression, and he must be getting it from somewhere. All is lost in this topic.

Point out in my post exactly where I said "The Iraqis asked us for help, to invade their country, and thrust democracy to them".

"Once we stop helping people" - I assumed you were talking about the Iraq War, because you talked about the Iraq War in the next sentence. To assume that we're helping them is wrong. Yes, in the long run, it'll be a little bit better, but they do still have their religious conflicts, tons of contacts with the Al Qaeda, Iranians and there's still people in Iraq who know Bin Laden's whereabouts (or at least where Bin Laden was). So yes, to assume that we're helping is wrong, the only thing that we've helped is their fragile political system and their surplus of $80 BILLION.

Those sickos deserve it.

Absolutely no way.

If you've killed a person, on purpose, intentionally, yeah, you deserve to be hung, beat, murdered yourself.